Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

@Paulina
I am not sure he even cares, most south americans/middle eastern/African nations are more bothered about American hegemony then Nazi behaviour in Russia.

Many of them see America as a threat to their political expansion within their own region and don't accept U.S.A's involvement in other countries (ignoring the fact that Japan, later on Soviet Union pushed U.S.A into it)

They see their poverty and own mistakes as U.S.A being the source of it, while most of their problems are self produced. It's like if Poland blamed Russia for Poles arguing with each other...

It is obvious that Putler`s services did it. Right now Ukrainians are busy with removing RuSSists from their lands and don`t have time and resources to carry out such attacks against individuals in deep RuSSia.

Dugin belongs to radical RuSSist nationalists who have been pressing on the Kremlin to resort to much more brutal methods in Ukraine than now. They have also demanded mass mobilisation and generally criticised Putler and his govt for being too mild.

It is natural Putler couldn`t put up with it any longer.

The same which misinformed Putin about how "de-nazifying" Ukraine would go (aka "cheering masses in Kiev greeting the liberating Red Army") ? These services???

If so the question becomes big WHOM these services actually serve....

@Kashub1410
I'm trying to decypher what you mean but I've really no idea.

What I am concerned about is countries interfering in the internal affairs of others. I dont think that that is a controversal position to have

It's spelt "equivalence". And there isn't.

Unless you can think of any presenters on state TV in the UK or US who habitually call for genocide and for the murder of PoWs.


Yes, he has (and they tried to deny it of course!).

BTW, the guy who picked up the bottle containing chemical weapons that was planted there by the r@SSian state fortunately survived due to limited exposure and prompt medical treatment. His partner wasn't so lucky; the lady sprayed it on her wrist and died.


That or the FSB or similar.

Having said that, there is a considerable overlap between the r*SSian state and organised crime.

Yes, there would have to be equivalence though and there isn't.


Like Russia invading Ukraine? lol Don't you think they (Ukrainians) would have the right to retaliate?

... and now I would like to ask for some sources. I back up each controversial statement in my posts with sources. Sources that your kind can accept, and never RT, Sputnik, or anything of that type. Typically I quote the FT, Bloomberg, NYTimes, or Reuters. Something of that caliber would be acceptable. Could you please demonstrate the proof for these claims?

I listen to Girkin on youtube. At least something interesting and some things to learn.
That Rassjia one with that laud peasant and with those F up in the head people - couldn't watch it unless they would pay me. I'm pretty sure that they were talking about it there.

@Cojestdocholery

Oh sh!t - you speak Russian? I like Girkin too, even though sometimes I wonder if he has a few screws loose in his head. Is he translated into Polish?

Good news everybody! Apparently they've solved the Dugina murder! (and do feminine names in Russian just add -a? Weird....)

Anyhoo,

Super spy Ukrainian assassin Natalia Vovk entered russia a few days ago with her daughter (who has a different last name....) rented an apartment in the same building as Dugina shadowed her for a couple of weeks apparently FSB was on her trail but not quite quick enough to prevent her from carrying out the hit (at least a bit of speculation that she may have used her daughter to plant the bomb.... how dastardly!)

She then fled to Estonia.... conveniently forgetting to take her Azov ID (left it in the rented room apparently....)

Now a russian senator Dzhabarov is saying that if Estonia doesn't extradite the famed spy-assassin russia would be justified in taking "tough actions"...

The whole story is pieced togehter from various twitter accounts so no individual link, look up the names in twitter and you can see the reports for yourselves....

That's what I've read in this article:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/jest-ustami-putina-mowi-co-wladca-rosji-jedynie-sugeruje-6803835344521920a

Two quotes from the article translated by me:

"'Ukrainians should be killed, killed and killed' - Aleksandr Dugin bellowed in 2014, when Russia started the invasion in Donbas."

"In the assassination directed at Aleksandr Dugin, his daughter, Daria, was killed. Both are known for statements which could be compared to anti-Jewish rants of Goebbels. They would openly call Ukrainians sub-humans and were calling for the murdering of the whole nation."

NKOPOL, Ukraine (AP) - Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which hits the half-year mark this week, has already killed some 9,000 Ukrainian soldiers, a general said, and the fighting Monday showed no signs that the war is abating.

My bet is the toll is much higher.
God bless their families pain.

See Paulina - you could not find an English language source that is not from a tabloid. Unlike you, I'm curious enough, that when I read such things I go and look for the source. The source of that "kill, kill, kill" quote is this video:

youtu.be/l5tUtaRVu4I

Cut out of a 24 minute video, those six seconds have been used by Ukrainians and Russian opposition politicians since 2014 - always without providing any context.

The context is that Dugin was commenting on the fire at the Odessa Trade Union building in 2014, where 46 anti-Maidan activists were burned alive as 1,500 football hooligans and far-right activists stood outside and cheered. Dugin was outraged by the inhumanity of the post-Maidan government that sought to blame the victims themselves for the fire. He called on Ukrainians to "kill, kill, kill" the bastards responsible, not for the Kremlin or any other interested party, but for the future of their children.

Now regarding your subhuman claim and calls to genocide, I just can't find that anywhere. I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate a single reputable source. If you cannot, I expect you to make conclusions about your poor information hygiene.

P.S. - Dugin is popular in many countries outside Russia. Do you think he gets invited to conferences while people know him to be a genocidal lunatic?

Here is an article in the Financial Times, titled: "The Global Reach of Alexander Dugin"

Excerpt:

In China, Iran and Turkey, Dugin has become a spokesman and co-ordinator for those who are seeking to destroy America's global hegemony. Meanwhile in Europe and the US, he has liaised with far-right forces, positioning himself as an ally in the battle against "globalism".

Source: ft.com/content/7184ab8c-c155-4198-a844-87b9a98d8b9b

@Bobko, I had a quick look and, yes, I didn't find any article in English that would talk about his overt calls for genocide (I googled just "Dugin + genocide" though).

The thing is, from what I've noticed the reputable Western media also don't report about the insanity that is taking place on Russian state TV, while the Polish media do that at least from time to time. There's this British journalist that is monitoring Russian state TV, that they often refer to, who is posting videos on her Twitter account of the f*cked up stuff that Russian "experts" are saying.

So my guess is that this could be also the case with Dugin and his daughter.


Could you tell me where exactly this moment is in this video? (the video is 23 minutes long ;/)


Well, in that Polish article it is written that they were calling Ukrainians subhumans and calling for killing the whole nation "wprost" (which means openly, directly).

I don't know what source this Polish journalist based it on, but the article is quite long and he's quoting Dugin a lot, so it looks like he knows his writings. I don't. I haven't followed any Russian stuff since the Crimea annexation in 2014 and I didn't even know about Dugin's daughter's existence before this assassination. So I guess I would have to look for sources in Russian.


Both him and his daughter are sactioned by the EU. And don't make me laugh by giving China, Iran and Turkey as an example of countries where he is being invited to lol For those countries it's enough for him to be anti-American, anti-Western. I doubt they care about anything else. They clearly don't mind that he's a fascist (and it's enough to visit Wikipedia to get to know about this).

@Barney
If she was a journalist she would be in Ukraine reporting. She is a Russian propagandist. Was. lol

I hope this is not your standard for quality journalism. Most reputable publications, within their online articles, hyperlink contentious pieces of text to original source material. The Wiadomosci journalist doesn't link to a single source, instead just linking circularly to other Wiadomosci articles and pasting in a bunch of Twitter links.


17:55-18:01, might need to move a second or two forward or back. Goddamn, I'm only going to these lengths because you seem an intelligent person, but I really don't enjoy watching old Dugin videos just so you can know where some six second snippet comes from.


So now you are "guessing"? Above you were telling another poster, Barney, that he is ignorant about Dugin and his daughter, because you (turns out on bullsh!t authority) could confirm that they both are the modern incarnation of Goebbels. Perhaps stop "guessing" and tread more carefully where death is concerned.

P.S. - I'm no fan of Dugin, or other monarchists like him. I think they live in a fantasy world and are trying to revive a Russia that no longer exists.

Do you think that popularity in those countries is anything good?

Interesting.... Galeev doesn't necessarily think that the father was involved... but wouldn't rule it out either and thinks it's in the realm of possibility (lots of people are puzzled at his sudden appearance and switching cars and I had the link to generalsvr earlier....)

curiouser and curiouser...

Ther r*SSians are pretending that the glamorous female assassin escaped in a Mini Cooper.

As Michael Caine said in The Italian Job, she was "only supposed to blow the bloody doors off".

It takes between 9 and 12 hours to drive from M*scow to the Estonian border. Has the FSB told Comrade Putler that they a) knew about the 'Azov terrorist' and b) failed to apprehend her; and c) watched her drive 9+ hours to the border?

As are Russian steel tycoons, ministers, journalists, and even Putin's alleged lover. All of this is recent, however, and before February all these people could travel freely. Proof in answer to Jon below.


What does it matter what I think? It's not only China, Turkey and Iran, however. Here's a further excerpt from that same article:

In Europe, meanwhile, Dugin and his sponsor, the Russian banker Konstantin Malofeev, have cultivated ties with hard-right parties such as Austria's Freedom Party, Italy's League and France's National Rally - maintaining links through conferences, lectures and meetings in Russia and western Europe.

In the US, Dugin's natural bedfellows are on the far right. Early in the Trump presidency, Dugin gave an interview to the conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, expressing his hopes for "Mr Trump, who I support with all my heart". He told Jones that pro-Trump and pro-Putin forces should unite against "our common enemy, the globalists".

Richard Spencer, the American far-right figure, who was filmed shortly after Trump's victory shouting "Hail Trump" and giving a stiff-armed salute, is also connected to the Russian nationalist. Spencer's wife has translated Dugin's work into English.

Source: FT, "The Global Reach of Alexander Dugin"

As mentioned above, my politics don't align with his. I don't think he's found himself particularly savory allies. But as Barney pointed out, this is not reason enough to murder him, or his daughter. You would think it would be you English and Americans teaching me, a Russian brute, this simple truth.

I challenged you to give me proof of his calls to genocide or him describing Ukrainians as subhuman. You could not show this. You could not show this, because it does not exist.

So neo-nazis and the appalling 'Alex Jones'. He certainly associates with the world's trash.

What a piece of shıt he is.

Anyway, stop whinging about the nastyy bıtch meeting a sticky end. People get killed all the time in R*SSia, most of them by Putler supporters and other mafiosi.

And she's barbecued orc.

May there be much more of that until they get the hell out of Ukraine.

Hopefully the father next, then Simonyan and the dwarf Medvedev,

No, but I might crack open a bottle of champagne to celebrate Dugina's demise.

I was saving it until it's either confirmed that Pighozhin's been neutralised or Ukraine destroys the illegal bridge that the r*SSians buit to connect r*SSia with Ukrainian Crimea.

You'll have to wait a while longer then, mon cher.

Pictures of Prigozhin surveying the Wagner barracks after the strike (place of his alleged death). I trust you don't need a picture of the Kerch Strait Bridge?

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The illegal bridge?

Better take a snap now while it's still there. And while Pighozhin's still alive.

The alleged assassin must be a damn good driver, since despite the FSB claiming they were tailing her for weeks, she still managed (after allegedly carrying out a high profile assassination in M*scow) to make a 9+ hour drive to the Estonian border, cross the border manned with r*SSian border guards and escape to the west.

Maybe the FSB just aren't very good at apprehending assassins they've been tailing for weeks.

Or (can this really be true?) the 'official' r*SSian account is just their usual bullsh1t.

@jon357

Aren't you curious who that handsome man next to Prigozhin is? Well of course you are. Allow me then to tell you: his name is Andrei Bogatov, a Hero of Russia. He fought in the Soviet-Afghan War, the War in Yugoslavia, the first phase of the Donbass War, and then fought ISIS in Syria. In Syria he was the commander of Wagner's 4th Recce-Assault company, and it was there that he was seriously wounded - losing his left arm.

As we can see from these photos in Popasnaya, it has not stopped him from coming to the Donbass for round 2 of Bandera-hunting season. Hail the heroes of Russia!

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Hopefully he'll lose the other one soon.

So how did an alleged assassin who the FSB said they were tailing for weeks, get away with a 9+ hour drive to Estonia (after a high profile assassination) in a Mini and cross an international border manned by r*SSian border guards?


Intelligence isn't your forte.

Nor the FSB's if they can't pick up an alleged assassin that they were tailing either during a 9 hour drive or at an international border...

@PolAmKrakow
That's grand people find their own level I suppose.


Yeah I think that's a very important point.

There is an explicit contradiction in the gloating here but I believe you see that.

Hanssen not Robert Hansen who was someone else.

Hanssen in 1979 and Ames in 1985. Wasn't that the KGB then?

And of course, both were caught and jailed.

The FSB just seem cack-handed. They even botched the chemical weapons attack in Salisbury.


To murder people, and as mentioned, one was botched.

Interesting that you're trying to deflect from r*SSia's failures by mentioning other countries. Whataboutery doesn't work.

And the world is watching r*SSia's humiliation and decline.

Thanks, I'll watch it.


I didn't claim that it is. The fact that I wrote that her death didn't sadden me terribly, doesn't mean that I'm advocating for such measures. Especially that, as maf and pawian wrote, Ukrainians have better things to do.


Hey, I haven't finished investigating this issue. The fact that it wasn't reported in English, doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist (in Russian). Give me more time. I'm on it.

Hanssen went quiet after the collapse of the Soviet Union, until he was reactivated by the already independent Russian Federation. He then continued to spy until 2001, and this is when his most damaging work had been done. Isn't it astounding that the man in charge of catching Russian spies... was a Russian spy? Hahaha.

Ames also spied for independent Russia, until 1994. So all is kosher.


Not people, but traitors. We didn't come to your country to kill British citizens that displeased us. Tell me that Americans and Brits do not kill traitors on the lam?


In actual fact, I defended them against their "failures" by showing their continuing competence in other matters, without invoking other countries. The Cambridge Five bit I added as a joke, and even qualified it by saying that I feel it is unfair.

You are boring, Jon.

Me either, he's a nasty piece of work and the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

I'm leaning toward the FSB option (and the idea that she was the target all along, the idea it was aimed at him... doesn't fly).

But in the final analysis I don't much care - a lot of the point of russian disinformation is to get people talking about russia and what they could possibly be motivating them... it's the collective narcissistic wound of being ignored by the rest of the world.

She's dead, I doubt Ukraine had anything to do with it (and don't care if it did). I suspect her father knew/approved of the hit ahead of time because that's how awful he is. But it has nothing to do with ongoing russian military war crimes in Ukraine.

More interesting (in a way) is the latest Wind of Change letter suggesting nasty backstabbing going on throughout the power system and massive theft of state assets (what esle is new in russia) and people making money from the war who don't want it to stop because it's profitable for them.

Prizhogin is also possibly making a move and if he gets closer to power then it's back to real bad times....

Also Patrushev (another nasty piece of work) is supposedly having health problems which might interfere with his long term goal of getting his wet dishrag son into power....