Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

First of all, it's not 1654 anymore. We're living in 2022. 1654 is distant history.
Secondly, Ukraine's borders were agreed upon by both sides in 1991, right? Russia accepted Ukraine's independence, right? Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, right?

Ukraine didn't "steal" your lands, so stop acting as if it did.


I honestly don't know which lands exactly were Russian hundreds of years ago and which weren't. All I know is that when people start asking themselves such questions terrible wars happen. That's why Poles don't intend to get back Lviv (Lwów) or Kaliningrad (Królewiec). We prefer to live in peace with our neighbours. We don't want to wage wars against them. We don't want war. A war is the worst that can happen.

Btw, Crimea wasn't always Russian. Russia annexed it only in 1783. That's 11 years after the first partition of Poland. So why won't you give Crimea back to Turkey? Kaliningrad wasn't Russian in the past either. Why won't you give Königsberg back to Germany? And we could go on and on like that in Europe... And have a war after war and than another war... *sigh* 🙁

And soon it will be 2023. And the year 2022 will become history. And who knows whether Poland will continue to suffer with this quasi-state controlled by the Anglos, or return the given lands back to Germany and Russia, preserving its heritage in wide autonomy, but without the corrupting temptations for the political elite.


Because Turkey renounced its claim to Crimea while it is owned by Russia, but retained the right of "first hand" in the event of Crimea leaving Russian power. Ukraine is superfluous in this equation, and the Russians will deal with the Turks themselves. This is not Polish business anyway.


Why Poland not return Pomerania and Danzig to Germany? You asking questions that can rise other ones, not so pleasant for Poland.

And about your historical awareness. There is 2 dates, 1721 and 1795 - in total two purchases was made at that years (and not for a pocket change - it measures in empire yearly budgets) - after which modern Latvia and Estonia became property of Russia (with all inhabitants and businneses - as stated in agreements with previous owners). Then the Bolsheviks came in 1917, and in order not to pay the debts of the empire, announced that they were not its successors. At the same time, they recognized the independence of the newly formed Latvia and Estonia (the American Democratic Party knows how nice it is to throw away other people's property - they probably learned something from the Bolsheviks, too). Later, Russia did pay off the tsarist debts, and restored the legal succession. And now the interesting question is whether the Bolshevik recognition of these states has any bearing on Russia, and whether it is worth raising the question of collecting the money paid for these lands and later invested from those who now claim to own them.

Concerning Ukraine - anything is much more funny. Almost all agreements between Russia and Ukraine was denounced by ukrainian regime, so too much legal vacuum there.

Well....the big difference here as I see it is that Poland and Germany are now members of the same Union....with warts and all the EU ended in big part these questions with Schengen....people can move relatively freely...live, work, study, travel to their hearts contend....a war for Danzig or giving back Pomerania becomes more and more senseless.

Would Russia and Ukraine together joining the Union, the Schengenraum, be an alternative?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Ukraine and Russia once was parts of the same Union. Then three traitors meet in some nice place and declared that no Union anymore, starting all that bllodshed.

Why do you think it is not possible with EU now? Especially when political elites work hard by US scripts to destroy economy of their countries and cause capital exodus to another continent?

I'm not talking "now"...joining the EU and later Schengen is a long process, but it would be surely an option for a common peaceful future where now one side will only lose, and no matter who "wins", a deep wound will be kept open and bleeding for generations to come!

Poland and Germany still have alot of differences and keep annoying each other....but Pomerania or Danzig have stopped being open questions, thanks to the EU and Schengen.

Are you sure that EU and Schengen will still be there in 2024?

....as long as there is no alternative!

Russia and it's demands with ukrainian territory showed quite well that there is no real option to the EU (and Schengen)....it's abit like with re-discovering the value of NATO! :)

Big part of becoming a member is clearing and ending such territorial demands, claims and age old border grievances....otherwise Europe would be full of it! There would be no peace....think Yugoslavia all over!

If it will continue to be a "black hole" for funds for a stupid "green" projects, while economy will be ruined, different scenarios is possible. Like Austro-Hungarian Empire v2.0, for example...

....compared to what? What better alternative is there?

The Austro-Hungarian Empire was ended through war....the EU won't end in war, there will be no war IN the EU..thats the point!

As we heard Germany investing great money in army. Because of Russia? No. Because of Poland.

Fate of Poland is sealed if failed to openly align its policy with Hungary and Serbia, which opens new perspectives.

Yes!

We tried "Wandel durch Handel"....Putin made us look like fools, maybe we were....well...now alot of our money goes back into Bundeswehr and NATO!

Germany would never move against Russia. Now when architecture of the Europe and world changing, Germany focusing only on Poland. Why not move on Russia? Because it would be fast suicide. Few nukes would fell and Germany wouldn`t exist. NATO or no NATO around. Russia would never allow itself real serious conventional war. It can`t allow itself such a casualties. Tactics in Ukraine prove it. Soon there would be even Korean and who knows what other soldiers on the Russian side as well. Reason plus Germany not to even dream of moving against Russia.

So, its clear. Poland. And yet more.

More? That more is to serve as American cannon fodder. Now we live in time when borders of civilizations are drawn. For that Germany prepare or to say, got signal from its master - the USA, to prepare itself. Idea would be to take from Poland as much as possible, to bait into the Slavic world where possible. It will be tried in Poland and on Balkan. But Balkan would by then orbit around Serbia. Forbidden zone to Germany because of Serbian-Russian and Serbian-China ties. Then Poland. Failed to chose wisely in time, Poland would by then sunk into chaos, torn apart by blind pro-papal and American servants of the western Europe and pro-Slaveno-Polish patriots.

Then border making between the civilizations would come to a conclusions. If Poland mistake, instead border to be drawn in the midst of Germany along the line of Eastern Germany, border may cut along Poland.

Now and these days is time for Poland to wisely align its policy with Hungary and Serbia and that way avoid destine of the battlefield and border.

@Velund
You're delusional or on drugs. There is no way the things you pray for will happen. Russia cant even beat Ukraine. Once again out come the Putinites when things are not going their way.

Happy Birthday Ukraine, hold out until your victory. See you in Crimea.😎

Do you realise that when all the purchased weapons arrive in Poland, and our forces are not only modernized but also almost doubled in numbers, we will have the strongest army in Europe? Why would Germany want to risk a war with such power? To regain lands where hardly any Germans live today? When they themselves have to deal with depopulation of many areas in the former East Germany. Why on earth would they attack Poland? Get a grip, Crow.

Meanwhile in Nairob... erm... I mean Nottingham:

youtu.be/IivQ97zhntc

@GefreiterKania
Ha,ha😃😄...but back to Ukraine.
3 bln. birthday gift is not so bad.🍾

Its their sole purpose. And I wouldn`t underestimate them. Evil that lurk in the dark would make sure they have the strongest army in Europe.

But if Poland change its official policy and align its policy with Hungary and Serbia, Germany wouldn`t dare to attack Poland. Or, even if they do it, they will regret.


Sorry to ruin your party. But, what Ukraine?

@Crow
Revengeful rhetoric might work with Russians, but it will fall for deaf ears in Poland. Only fringe factions would fall for that trap

German society's purpose is to strive, survive, improve and increase it's chances... just like every society on earth. Some are more driven, others less.

German society can seem less human and more mechanical due to it's increased focus on working with materials and production. It comes with a cost related to human interaction (introvert nation so to speak).

Yet it gets things done, which is appreciated as long as others also benefit from it.

Poland benefits a lot from it, as long as far right spheres of German society is held in check. Comparing the value of interaction (commerce, culture, politics and technology) between choice of Germany/EU and Belarus/Russia... It's very clear which is the best choice, main problem is spiritual battle. But that's allways going to be present, few countries today are aware or cares for this battle either way. So it's more of an internal struggle for now

@Crow
Put on a suit, take a bottle of champagne and come celebrate with us. It has been long time since one country has shown the ruthenians as clearly as Ukraine where their place is, namely in the trash can, in the trash can of history.

My intent is merely to inform because I love my Polish sisters and brothers. And love is thing you hardly always can rationally explain.

So, I just see how things develop.


Far right spheres of German society are to lead Germany again.

And good that you mention `spiritual battle`. That`s very important. So time is for Poland to wisely align its policy with Hungary and Serbia and prepare itself for inevitable.

@Crow
Poland's main concern is not to unleash itself on to the world, so I guess we would all appreciate it if you refrained from trying to change that

Don`t be afraid. You can turn yourself into the salt but, Germany would be unleashed on you again. They need resources and Poland is hated from long ago. And if Poles aren`t wise horror would happen. Still time for Poland to openly officially align its policy with Hungary and Serbia. With us, Poland have better chances. See, even USA beginning to change its mind.

@Crow
Germans love Poland and Poles and currently there are the best relations beetween those countries in history.

Current is current. Look better. Germany already transform.

Ivan Sushko, head of the military-civil administration of the village of Mikhailovka, was killed after an explosive device was planted under his car, according to a Telegram post by Vladimir Rogov, a member of the Russian-appointed council in occupied parts of Zaporizhzhia.

Shocking isn't it? People are blowing up everywhere. WOW who would have thought this could happen? I know, its crazy to think that Ukraine people would be wanting revenge on the Orc's that invaded their country and are killing their countrymen.

You would think on the six month anniversary of this absolutely retarded war, that Putin and his coxuckers would understand that they already achieved their best result. Nothing more is going to happen except more losses for Russia. That's it. They wont hold Kherson, and no expert believes they can hold Donetsk without a full mobilization in Russia. With all the aid coming thats already announced and another 5 BILLION in aid to be announced today, it is over except for the dying. Russia simply can not win at this point, and there really is no reason to continue that makes sense.

The US and UK call those acts terrorism, the hypocrisy from the empire is astounding.

You really hate the free world, don't you Barney?

So much hate, so much bile.

@Barney
Terrorism of Orcs? So be it. Everyone of them occupying, or assisting in the occupation should have a car bomb for breakfast.

Similarly, RuSSian occupiers were blown up or shot by Polish assassins during partitions. Today their names are honoured with streets and plaques all over Poland.


No, with pro-RuSSist Serbia and Hungary it is a road to perdition. Don`t count on Poles in this matter.

Interesting. Did you cheer in the same way when Iraqis planted IEDs under American Humvees, creating plentiful Yank occupier barbecues? Are you similarly elated when a Qassam rocket fired by Hamas hits the Israeli occupant's capital, or are you a hypocrite? I suppose you follow closely how brave Yemenis fight against their Emirati and Saudi aggressors, and have long ago argued for an embargo on crude oil exports from the UAE and KSA? Right? Tell me that's true, please?

Careful don't turn yourself into a pretzel while explaining your double standard!