Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

@Bobko
#1,478
With regard to U.S.A, it's impossible to regard as existamtial threat. U.S.A has need to stop the existance of states like: U.K, France, Brazil, China or Russia.

If anything it's more then eager to have good relations with them to acess their markets to earn more $$$

Even states like Mexico's existance is safe unless all their provinces rebel, partition itself and start applying for state membership to rival other mexican states.

So I don't see U.S.A as existantial threat to Russia. More like a difficoulty for Russia

Majority of Poles would shudder at the thought. The fact that you're writing something like this on a forum about Poland just shows how out of touch you are. The only time we were "together" with Russia in anything was when we were forced, when Poland became the victim of Russian imperialism (both during the times of the tsarist Russia and the Soviet Union). For Poles that was a tragedy and something that was taking Poland backwards every time. We still live with consequences of that. So we have only bad memories connected to being "together" with Russia (which meant losing our independence and being dominated by Russia).

And just look how hard Ukrainians are fighting to not be "together" with Russia again. They know what they're doing, believe you me!


There would be absolutely nothing "nice" about a vision in which Poland would become more russicized. Just look at that f*cked up country. We already have a taste of that Russian/Eastern European mentality with PiS ruling Poland.

NO, THANK YOU!



lol

What country has good memories of being "together" with russia?

Why don't russians ever learn anything from that?

@Kashub1410
This is what Russia has never understood. In the end for USA, the democracy is great, but its the economics that stir the drink. Money is what motivates the USA. Russia and China though do not want to compete with USA directly on an even field because they cant. Forced labor in China and low wages in Russia can not even bring them to the US and Western standards of production, quality and quantity. This has always been a psychological problem for both countries in a top down economy. Their governments do not promote creativity, innovation, or product development because all of that takes time, and brain power. These countries do not want to spend either. Their jealousy of the west blinds them.

Or trolling.


Not even r*SSia has good memories of being together with r*SSia.

Maybe one of those Asian-like republics or countries? I don't know... One Russian guy told us that for those places Russia represented a kind of civilisational advancement, especially the Soviet Union, so they may have more positive memories, I guess. That Russian guy was a pretty typical brainwashed pro-Putinising Russian, so I don't know how true it was. It seems logical though.


I guess Bobko doesn't understand that Russia, unlike in case of those poor, backward places that I mentioned, doesn't have such pull for Poland. Especially that Russians wouldn't allow for Poland to influence Russia in any way, so there would be nothing constructive about such "experience" for both countries.

And many Ukrainians know what it's like in Poland, in the EU - they like it more and chose the Western direction. I can't blame them, to put it mildly.

militaryleak.com/2022/08/23/germany-to-supply-ukraine-with-vulcano-155mm-precision-guided-munition/

Not even the Bundeswehr has these magic bullets yet!

.....
According to the manufacturer, the Vulcano ammunition has a range of up to 70 kilometers. This would allow the German self-propelled howitzers to double their previous range and hit targets far behind Russian lines.The Russian army is already having massive problems with another weapon that can shoot up to 80 kilometers: The USA Himar multiple rocket launcher, supplied German and Dutch self-propelled howitzers with a similar long range could pose further problems for the Russian attackers.

.....
The second advantage of the Vulcano ammunition, according to the manufacturers - the German armaments manufacturer Diehl Defense and the Italian weapon manufacturer Leonardo - is its precision: Vulcano projectiles should hit their target with an accuracy of one meter.Many Ukrainian and Russian artillery pieces usually only have an accuracy of up to 20 meters. According to Diehl Defence, the projectiles navigate to the target with the help of satellites and laser or infrared sensors. The group speaks of the "most precise artillery ammunition in the world". ...

t-online.de/nachrichten/ukraine/id_100042370/waffen-fuer-die-ukraine-das-koennen-die-deutschen-supergranaten-vulcano-.html

Precise targeting far behind enemey lines....whoa the possibilities!!!

...the war in Ukraine seems to become a sandbox for our arms industry......

Huh... It didn't cross my mind that this is what Putin fears, but you may be right...


Agreed!

Those countries had civilisation and rich cultures before, which contact with r*SSia damaged more than it improved.

Poland with fekking RuSSists??? Never.
Any cooperation is possible only after RuSSists become normal Russians devoid of their imperial obsessions. It will take decades, though.

Back on topic edition 102

Polish authorities announced that Polish aid to Ukraine amounted to 17 billion PLN, about 4 billion $. 10 is charity help and 7 military stuff.

In interesting places south to Russian borders, between the others... Not for public discussion, though. ;) As I can see, common sense is, as before, scarce here. But at least you returned from "vacations", that is a big plus.

You hoped for a change in the general Polish attitude to RuSSists and their criminal war??? So, you were wrong.

You mean you finally managed to get out of Crimea?? Yes, those traffic jams on the bridge are horrible, indeed. hahahahaha


Come on, why such secrecy?? We have all seen those pics:

• 
  Ukrainian action
  
• 
  Russian reaction
  

russians move out of Crimea, putin will have a heart attack out of rage.🩺💊

Or would if he had a heart

Is there a custom in Ukraine to wish "Happy Independence Day"? You know, something like "поздравляю с праздником". How would that be written in Ukrainian?


Why not? Are you preparing for invading another country? :/

The Russian 'imperial' project always assumes that they absolutely have to be an international power, only geography limits them so much that all they can do is brutalize underdeveloped neighbours, never adding anything of value to its colonies - name one (1) former Russian colony which was in any way uplifted thanks to Rus colonists.

Nowadays they cannot achieve even that, because they cannot afford it, plain and simple, being a horribly ineffective cleptocracy ruled by pseudo-omerta law of former soviet criminals

with the following terms:

1. RuSSists withdraw from Ukraine to status quo ante bellum
2. RuSSists pay reparations for death and damage
3. Military criminals are handed over to the Hague Tribunal.

And that does of course mean pre-2014.

...you see, people have to believe in something. They need a larger idea(l) to guide them and bring meaning to their lives. Of course, in the old days that was the role of religion but since we live in the times of mass apostasy (not only by individuals but also by churches) it is no longer the case. People don't believe in God anymore, so they need something else to guide them. Hence all the -isms: millions of people in Russia believed in marxism, socialism, communism, but when the Soviet system fell there appeared a gaping hole in their value system, so some of them reverted to the earlier project - imperialism.

Of course, there is a sizeable population quite content with eating, shi*tting and f*cking -- they have their own ism too - hedonism, and there is quite a few followers of alcoholism -- but there will always be those for whom it won't be enough. They will look for, strive for and demand something more. It's ultimately pointless but that's how humans work. Original sin and all that.


Well, I'm not a specialist on Russian/Soviet history but if I were to name one of their satellites that received substantial investment which definitely raised their development level, I would say Cuba. Some of the primitive tribal communities in the Russian Far East must also have benefited from the imperial project (you know, those roads, schools and hospitals are in general a nice thing to have).


1. Unrealistic. Ukrainians will most likely have to make some sort of territorial concessions. Unfair? Yes, as life itself is unfair.
2. A reasonable demand. Russia was, after all, the aggressor, so some sort of compensation would be appropriate. This can be arranged.
3. Of course the history of Serbia handing over Milosević won't repeat itself, so Putin won't stand before any tribunal, but I suppose scapegoats will be found for spectacular show trials to appease the international public opinion.

The peace won't be perfect, but even imperfect peace is better than war.

I said ante bellum ie. 23 Feb. This already means concessions.


I said military criminals - direct perpetrators of RuSSist crimes of war. Putin won`t be handed over coz his own men will sooner kill him than send to any foreign tribunals.

Why not pre-1991?

@GefreiterKania
Have to disagree with territory concessions. Turkey's Erdogan says return of Crimea to Ukraine is a requirement of international law. This in itself shocked me. He would never have said this if he did not really think it was possible. Something may have happened in his latest meetings with old Vlad the coxucker.

Because Ukrainians want to have their own independent country. Why is it so hard to understand for RuSSians that Russians aren't the only nation in the world that want to have their own country? Is it some kind of brain disease? lol

I wondered myself....that makes no sense at all as the only thing one ever hears from Erdogan these days are tries to dodge the sanctions to strenghten economic ties with Russia and to make deals with Putin! *scratches head*

A peace that's too imperfect will only lead to a larger and worse war... a peace with territorial concessions will simply encourage russia to wait a few years and try again... peace and russia are not words that fit easily in the same sentence....

@Bratwurst Boy
Something happened. I would bet on Putin not giving Erdogan something, or not following through on something he had promised before. This is a very big statement for a guy who has always ridden the fence.

I followed that development with one special celebrity.....remember Kasatonov? And Fetisov? And the wonderful, absolutely unique Icehockey team under legend Tichonov? Most of the old warriors regretted the downfall of the Sovietunion, whereas the young talents couldn't wait to earn hard Dollars in the NHL as the whole world was open to them suddenly...

In the GDR those who lived well with the system, under the system, of course regretted the downfall of the wall and the later unification with West Germany too.

Maybe it's a question of age...most of them have gone quiet now....have died....the rest who remember and regret will be gone soon. Putin is one of them!

Then why they should get much more than they bring to Russia in 1654? Especially lands that was Russian starting from the uninhabited "wild steppes", like Donbass and Novorossia?

Meanwhile in the real world - Chronicles of sanctions:

According to a preliminary estimate by the Bank of Russia, the current account surplus of the Russian Federation in January-July 2022 continued to grow to $166.6 billion, which is more than 3 times higher than the corresponding period in 2021