Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

blick.ch/politik/gfroerlis-muessen-im-ernstfall-bibbern-heiz-suendern-droht-der-knast-id17851055.html

"Neutral Swiss", who heats over 19 degrees, is threatened with prison.

....and they are not even in the EU....but probably also US marionettes...

The world is rarely so black and white!

No, our fascism in Ukraine supporter, however I don't see why there's a reward, when they're known for snitching on each other anyway for reasons that are incomprehensible to people in the southeast of Europe.

Crow mode.....

So what is the future of Kaliningrad ? Certainly it needs to be discussed and the status quo is not an option.

With Sweden and Finland both joining NATO then it has no strategic purpose for the rusty Russian fleet - the Baltic is now a lake for NATO ships to train in.

Could it return to Germany - no !

Maybe an independent state that could make a living through casinos and cheap dentists. a kind of Baltic version of Las Vegas, that's what Batumi became

Or maybe a British / American protectorate a bit like Hong Kong ?

Why the Brits???

Because Britain have contributed to the Russian defeat - Germany resisted cutting off Kali and put pressure on the Lithuanians to reopen the connection

Strangely enough there is a big BMW plant there but I'm sure that never crossed Scholz mind

Anyway for Poland and Lithuania we now had Nazis followed by Soviets followed my more Nazis there. It's time to install democracy and find some reasonable solution on this wedge of farmland and lagoons

....yeah....agreed.....but the Brits???? They have absolut no connections whatsoever in this region. No roots, no history, no bonds....nothing. They would be totally alien there...

@Crnogorac3
Apparently you missed where the Swiss were going to more closely align with NATO too? Amazing isn't it. Neutral Switzerland aligning with NATO because Putin the Incompetent made Europe more united to finally defeat Russia. You know what happens to gas when you have too much of it? You burn it for nothing. You know what happens when the world allows you to sell oil again? The price goes to the basement. All this to not only lose in Ukraine, but to see the Kazakh's leave the Russian sphere of influence and possibly others.

The west could not have written a better script for this movie. Putin will go down as the biggest loser in the history of dictators. LMFAO

Do the Americans?

And who else in Europe would be remotely suitable? Nobody except Poland who are too close and don't have the resources.

Britain however would say no.

Sweden would be a good third party however Lithuania are the obvious choice.

I can't imagine either if I'm honest....but I doubt it will come to any occupation by foreign troops, the Kalinis will have to muddle through alone after the fall....

Yeah no, occupying it would mean violating international borders and thus taking a page from Putin's textbook.

I think it just needs to be independent and demilitarized. But like Montenegro it is too small to be viable without someone guaranteeing its security.

The same.

I'm not sure if it could be independent; the people there are russian and it would probably turn into a cross between Dubai and Dodge City.

Giving it be back to Germany is an option however the issue is that the people are russian.

Perhaps they should keep it with a sort of managed change, no new settlement, slow and steady depopulation with a UN mandate to do that. In a couple of generations the issues will be different ones.

Some tropical island nations will be underwater; perhaps it could be used for settling people from there or just give it to Bangladesh.

Or make it a homeland for a stateless people like the Kurds or the Karens from Burma or the Roma

There a smaller countries in Europe, it could succeed if its' people desire independence and with some financial help from the EU.

True, however they have a long history of having survived and aren't of course full of russians, particularly military/naval ones

It could be a good homeland for the Roma or perhaps give it to Ukraine.

The EU is big, unwieldy and inefficient already without adding to it; doing that would just be opening the doors for businesses from France and Germany, neither of which have acquitted themselves well during this war and must not be rewarded in any way.

The Roma however are the largest European nation in without their own country. It would mean deporting russians (many of whom are military/naval and therefore eaving anyway) however it would at least give that nation a full place at the UN and a country to call their own.

That or either settle people from outside Europe and/or persecuted by russia. Like Afghans.

No way Russia gives up that port access. Kaliningrad would have to declare independence on their own. Russia is losing in Ukraine, but lets be realistic. Losing Crimea is going to be the death blow to Putin. Once that Russian bridge to Crimea goes, it is all over for him. Oligarchs better be moving everything out of their beach homes and moving their boats to safer locations.

It is understandable that you are proud of what the UK and Poland have contributed to the Ukrainian war effort and with good reason.

But, I mean this sincerely, is it not possible for you to acknowledge that Germany has also done a lot by this point to help, and I do not even mean caring for the 2nd largest number of Ukrainian refugees? I've posted numbers and datas before and if you watched videos from the current offensive near Kharkiv, you'll see PzH2000s and Gepards being used.

Ukrainians themselves are praising the performance of the German supplied Gepards.

economist.com/europe/2022/09/09/ukraine-seizes-the-initiative-in-the-east

That sort of criticism may have been valid until April or May, but certainly not in the light of what Germany has provided to Ukraine ever since and is planning to send in the future.

it is practical to look at the facts.

Countries continuing to import gas from russia during the war and even paying for it in roubles obviously go to the back of the queue. Don't you agree?

And should any of those countries actively prevented support getting to Ukraine in the early days of the war, they shouldn't be in the queue at all.


It is valid now. If you come to a meal late, you miss out on most of the food.

By that logic, Poland and especially the UK would have to stand quite a long while back. The UK did not stop importing energy from Russia by February.

As "for preventing aid" that was regarding a few outdated howlitzers at a point when no Western country thought that providing heavy weaponry to Ukraine was a good idea. Nobody prevented the UK or USA from sending aid sooner, yet they choose no to.

Actually quite soon after and now none at all.

Are any countries still actively supporting russia's war crimes by buying gas from them. Or supporting the murder of Ukrainian civilians by paying for that gas in roubles?

From what I've read, the UK stopped importing energy from Russia in July. We have now September and Germany is no longer receiving gas from Russia.

The UK did better but hardly to the degree that justifies pointing fingers.

The country that paid in Ruble was Hungary btw.

And no more than 4% in February or March. Not one drop paid for in roubles either by either the state (or as in the case of Germany) its state licensed energy companies. Ever.

Now both Nordstreams have gone for good, there is an opportunity to cease all economic involvement in russia for the next few generations. There is still plenty of gas in the U.K. and Norwegian sectors of the North Sea and a (literally) glowing future for nuclear power.

And no, we didn't just do better, we did much better and took the lead among European countries in helping Ukraine. From day one. Certain countries even blocked other countries from helping, however this isn't the time to reflect on Germany's decline in status; it is the time to look at the ways in which the U.K. and U.S. (with the help of Poland and ideally Australia and Canada which both have huge and very well-established and politically/economically significant Ukrainian diaspora communities) will assist Ukraine in reconstructing itself into a thriving and fully independent ally.

The latest figures for damage is 350 billion dollars and several Ukrainian cities will be building sites for a long while to come. Doubtless they will choose the partner companies they work with carefully.

Edit

Back to Kaliningrad. Poland doesn't want it, Lithuania wouldn't want all the russians who live there, nobody else has any sort of claim to it, so why not give it to the Roma?

heh. Some would like we to think that western Europe, Vatican and Patriarchate of Constantinople could manage to take all those Russia`s resources. Just for the record, I`m not convinced.

But I can imagine their hopes. They even convinced themselves it all belongs to them. Just that they extend their skinny skeletal hands and take. Just that enough of those who serve and oppose them dies. So they keep things under their control.

I think making Kali into a Roma homeland is an awesome idea.

it could even provide employment for the Russians once their Navy pulls out and the subsidy from mainland Russia is no longer affordable. Then the locals can find work building housing for the Roma and serving them coffee and alcohol.

What option? That is not an option at all. That would create another issue between Poland and Germany.
That land is a part of East Prussia which was given to Poland as it was historically proper. The fact Russian took it because they could make no diffrence. That error need to be corrected.

To create some unstable entity crime ridden and full of some people from all over it would only create more issues for the future.

Wouldn't work... Roma (aka Gypsies) cannot maintain a society on their own because there are too many necessary jobs that they wont' do.... they need a.... host population to maintain their traditional lifestyle.

There are some credible rumours of a mutiny within the russian army. Not just the mass desertions that have been reported, not just resolutions from city councillors in Petrograd and Moscow but something more serious.


Some of the settled ones in Slovakia and Romania who get a very bad deal may find it suitable. If there are jobs that are taboo in their culture, the remaining russians will be glad of any work. And of course there are many many people with Roma roots that work in all sorts of trades, industries and professions.

Or cede it to Lithuania who probably won't want any more ethnic russians than they have already.

Which makes your point even more hypocritical. Evidently the UK was not willing to immediately stop importing this energy from Russia, even though it only accounted for a fraction of their energy mix compared to the German dependency on Russian gas, but only Germany gets blamed for financing the Russian war.... . A very convincing argument to disgregard Germany's assistance to Ukraine no matter how significant it turns out to be.

UKR forces reported to have reached state borders.
Will they cross it? Taking few villages will be a massive media success and massive shame for Russia

They might cross it for a while to show off their amazing valour but will withdraw immediately coz Ukraine isn`t waging a war of aggression, just defensive.