Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

That Zorn guy seems to be completely unrealistic about the situation; his appraisal was laughable and rightly criticised by people who have actual expertise and ability. Perhaps he's a r*SSian asset too.

Such a contrast to Poland, the UK and US who have taken the lead on this. If it had been left to Micron, Scholz etc and their poodles, Europe would already be a different shape. They'd still have had gas though.

The old question...we build and sell some of the best armor in the world to the whole world....but our own Bundeswehr would be unable to lift a grandmoms skirt!

*throws hands up in the air*

The most important thing to understand is that Ukraine is fighting also for Germany. Could Poland afford, in the current situation, to give away - for example - those Krab howitzers (and divert our entire industry production of them for Ukraine - we will make another 54 for them)? Certainly not. But we did, because they fight and die for us. The sooner everyone in Germany understands it the better.

Some good news, not revolving around germany who are a minor player in this war: in the night Ukraine struck Melitopol airport, making it harder for the orcs to get in or out. Looking at the map, they are on their way to encircling Kherson. When that happens, all of Crimea and the Black Sea fleet will be in reach of HIMARS missiles.

I guess if we would be direct neighbours with Ukraine aka Russia, with the Red Army within earshot, we would act abit differently too....just guessing!

Great news. Also, another Russian military base was destroyed near Molochnyi estuary. I wonder how long will Russian forces be able to sustain losses like that. I read somewhere that it's a question of two-three weeks before their defences are shattered to pieces. Fingers crossed.


Probably. But that's a rather short-sighted approach, isn't it?

@Bratwurst Boy
Depends, Germany pre-ww2 wouldn't have hesitated to fight more for it's eastern lands if it wasn't for communist uprisings and internal problems. Despite Poland facing the red army in the east.

Modern Germany is different I grant you that, but with how the state of affairs are in Germany. It's internal disputes (again) has to be handled before going with any full force internationally.

More then not Germany sees Poland as an obstacle, lesser power to be exploited as much as possible and not allow to grow stronger/more influential then Germany.

Which is why Germany has a national interest to have good relations with any state east of Poland that has similar goals or issues. Wether it's Ukraine or Russia is irrelevant to Germany as long as it's able to climb the hierarchy in Europe and a threat from the east is lessened.

Germany has no need to be humane or semantic about excistance of Poland as it's a united nation of Slavic tribes that got together to stop/slow down Germanic expansion eastward. As long as Germany expands (especially eastward) Poland has to be wary.

It's the "totally demilitarized after having lost two great wars" - viewpoint! And you read the post by PolAm? Even now, any military strength would be met with wariness and suspicion....

There is no way Germany can do the "right" thing....not with a Europe wanting and fearing a militarily strong Germany at the same time!


You see Germany expanding (especially eastwards)???

I don't think so. At least in Poland we would cheer at the sight of a lot of Leopards and Panzerhaubitzes going to Ukraine. That would rebuild a lot of trust towards Germany. No country would treat strong German army with suspicion, if that military force was used in the best interest of all of EU. The way it is now, it is extremely difficult not to see Germany as a country littered with Russian agents in various government and industrial institutions.

Have you asked K. about that? ;)


I would even say it's impossible!

But Putin definitely put an end to that love affair....these "agents" have barely any influence anymore.

:D

You know what - I think that even Kaczyński wouldn't mind. He would probably draw curtains in his office, not to see them rolling through Poland towards Ukraine, but even he would realise that it's for the greater good. :)

....what a picture in the mind! :)

I wonder what comes first....german Leopards for Ukraine or Putin falling out of a window...fully accidentally of course!

Both things seem beneficial for the world :)

.....Ukraine in NATO! :)

@Bratwurst Boy
No, it is not a good idea.

Why? With Putinescu out of the window, and Ukrainian people finally being able to decide their fate on their own, I can't see why not.

And AUKUS!

....don't you have to be an Anglo for that?

No. Most Americans aren't nowadays and Japan, Singapore and India may join as associate or full members.

If a substantial Ukrainian-owned arms industry is going to be part of their post-war reconstruction, membership of AUKUS could be valuable to them and good for the alliance generally.

...is AUKUS then some rival of NATO?

No, it isn't. NATO, as you know, relates to the North Atlantic as its name suggests and where the principal members are located. Although it's grown from that in recent years, countries far away from there aren't members. There are also issues within NATO about countries' defence spending and of course the 'in-out' role of France. Two of the founder members of AUKUS are in NATO, one isn't.

Don't you think that Ukraine would be a valuable member of any military alliance?

They are Europeans, they should join european clubs (or at least the ones where the other europeans are members of)...wtf have they to do with India or Singapore???

AUKUS is, as you can see from any map, global with one of its three founders in Europe..

And, as you know, arms manufacture and supply, as well as military training and defensive alliances are far from regional.

Do you think that Ukraine should be restricted in the alliances that it joins?

....but India??? Singapore???

There are very nice clubs far closer to home....let them become members there first!

A hugely growing economy and a growing source of arms.


In a strategic location and very wealthy.


What are these 'clubs; that you mention?

Unless you mean NATO which they may well join too,

....well then....

But EU and NATO should be first for Ukraine....maybe they will get global so much in the future to be interested in an asian alliance, who knows!

Isn't that something for Ukraine?


Is not a military alliance.


As you were told, the two main AUKUS members are also the two main NATO members. Ukraine may well choose to join both and would be an asset.

...na ja....I dunno....hmm.....will Ukraine be asked to join?

That depends of course how things turn out mid-term. I would lie to see that.

Ukraine and Poland as a bloc within the EU could work very well; between them they could well become the EU's main domestically-owned arms exporters in a few years.

How so?

You need to develop and build arms to export them! I never heard of a strong polish or ukrainian arms industry before....