Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

Also, Ukraine has nuclear know-how - and it should only be question of time before Poland acquires atomic weapons - so there is a wide field for cooperation between Ukrainian and Polish industries. But first things first - the priority now is the victory against Russia. Then we can plan more concrete actions for the future.

Hopefully they will do this very well.


I'd guess that Washington and a few other capitals are thinking exactly that.

Well, it's not very large atm but certainly quite advanced. We make, among other things, world-class howitzers, MANPADS or radars, as well as decent choppers, AFVs or even tanks (though mass production of any prototype would require significant investments, so now it's cheaper to just buy them). With proper investments - and Poland is certainly willing to invest in defence - we can make it grow exponentially.

Because the production of e.g. a Pzh 2000 may take years, (and those production capabilities are now reserved for Ukraine).


There is zero evidence so far that anybody within the government has been compromised. i'd have my suspicions about the AfD, but they have never been in government.


The EU is working on a common defence policy and is the organisation Ukraine most likely to accept Ukraine. Don't let your Brexit goggles cloud your judgement, Zelensky made joining the EU his top priority and unlike NATO membership, this was always non-negotiable for him.


India has refused to condemn Russia's war of agression, is buying more and more Russian energy at a discount and receives most of his weapons from Russia.

...okay....good luck! :)


Half of the SPD are proven sympathizers....come on! All these "Wandel durch Handel" guys and gals.....I believe till now only Steinmeier has apologized...once....

Did you hear Ralf Stegner just recently? He definitely would like Ukraine to give up....

Which is why it needs full and transparent investigation conducted by an independent international body. As r*SSia descends deeper and deeper into chaos, it is likely that much from the FSB's files will emerge..


Which not all member states are bound to sign up to. Not that any such 'policy' could exclude membership of any other military alliance since some EU member states are in NATO and some are not.


They will always look for a bargain; yet Prime Minister Modi's comments yesterday about r*SSia were hugely significant and of course they have already had discussions with AUKUS.

You can be a symphatizer without being paid. Ralf Stegner is definitely wrong, but it is obvious that he genuily believes what he is saying.

India has zero interest in picking a fight with Russia. Which is understandable, given they shareb orders with Pakistan and China. There is zero chance they would ever side with Ukraine.

I think Ukrianie will go nuclear after the war. So it is somthing Poland should consider too.

It's very likely, and yes, Poland should consider this. There are currently only three nuclear countries in NATO (one half in half out) and the other two in AUKUS which of course is a strong option for Poland to consider.


They do however have a global role and significant capacity for arms manufacture. They also have a huge army with centuries of military tradition.

So despite your rather Francogermaniacentric opinions on their strategic interests and capabilities (something they can make their own mind up about) they have confirmed that they are in formal discussion with AUKUS and will continue to be.

They def not buying anymore russian 'cutting edge' hardware after the ukranian debacle, in fact boris signed a few deals to tempt india into the u.k arms industry.


i'm sure your lewica mates will hang you from the nearest lamp post for that comment, or are your part of the lgbt conservative minority now?

I'm somewhat fairly sure Francogermania will continue to be more important to Ukraine than India or Singapore...just saying! :)

Who said they would?

Until there are Ukrainian arms exporters, they'll be buying weapons from somewhere though. And of course they do have a strong working relationship with Indian steel manufacturers who will doubtless play a(the?) leading part in the reconstruction of Azovstal etc.

Your comment is actually rather silly, since future individual members of AUKUS are only parts of a very powerful military alliance.


I doubt r*SSia will export very much for the foreseeable future. Certainly there will need to be zero gas sales westward.

None of which matters as long as they are unwilling to help. And the more I've learned about India"s motives, the less optimistic I've become. To their credit, they have understandable reasons for refusing to help. It does not make sense strategically for them as previously mentioned. But Indians are apparantly against the USA and Ukraine (the latter of which is deemed as an American proxy) because the USA has in the past (and to a degree still is) supported Pakistan, against which they have fought numerous wars. Another point that has been brought up is Ukraine voting against India on the Kashmir issue in the UN. Russia on the other hand has been a reliable partner for decades. They may have been in talks with the USA and others, but this is exclusively about containing China, not Russia.


In return you could drop your Brexit goggles and view things more objectively. Joining the EU is clearly in Ukraine's interest, Zelensky himself said so. The only reason why you brought Aukus up is because you hope this war is an opportunity to strengthen British influence at the expense of the EU, not because it would make sense for Ukraine (which it clearly does not and is not even contemplated in Kiev). Needless to say, if that is what you are hoping for, you'll be disappointed in the end.

As you very well know, their role on the international stage is developing very fast and they are currently in formal talks with AUKUS.


Which of course doesn't exclude NATO (or indeed AUKUS) membership. The EU does not define what is or isn't Europe, nor does it have any control over countries' foreign relations or what military alliances they may choose to join.

Ukraine will of course decide for itself (as we can clearly see, they are a difficult country to bully) and they have also made it clear who they do or do not regard as allies.

Ach...and your continously putting up some imaginative "Francogermania" in your argumentation isn't?

You know, the best decisions are based on real existing facts...not some imagined fears or personal bias!

I wonder why Ukraine isn't asking India or Singapore for tanks.....nor ever will.

And those are clear in Ukraine, clear about who still buys r*SSian oil and who has blocked arms supplies, and clear about who they regard as their allies.


No, you don't 'wonder' at all, do you...

None of those three countries are in the same alliance yet. Two of them are however in talks to join and the third may very well be.

And Singapore doesn't have a tank army. They do however have a lot of cash and investment capital.

But not because they want to oppose Russia.


NATO membership is not a realistic prospect for Ukraine and AUKUS is not desireable for them. Hence joining EU is the very minimum Zelensky wants to achieve. NATO would be great as well, but he could claim victory without it.


It is evident that Ukrainians seem to believe so. And they are right to a large extent. The EU symbolizes the very best Europeans has been able to achieve to this day.

That's not about cash and capital....maybe we talk about different things here.

Maybe there will be some global bloc building for the future, in the case of an upcoming war for resources between the West and China....but then Europe will join an alliance as a bloc! And Ukraine will be part of it...

Who said they did?


It very much is, however AUKUS would be a better call. As for the EU being Europe; it isn't. It's a relatively recent trading alliance covering various states there and its form in the future is obviously hard to predict.


A great deal and of course constantly shifting and evolving. Nothing stays the same for very long.

yeah but i'm sure they getting a bit pis*ed off at germanys excuses. i'm sure, like the western inteligence agencies know, the ruski komprimat on your dear leader and mama merkel, but regardless usa and poland will keep kicking your kraut ass, like a screaming guilty toddler being pushed towards their creche/cage for punishment.

I'm fairly sure the moment the US sends some Abrams, the Brits some Challengers and the French some Leclercs Scholz will gladly send some Leopards...because that's right now his main excuse: "No german unilateralists movements".

spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-krieg-olaf-scholz-verteidigt-nein-zu-panzerlieferungen-a-e25048e2-ff86-4939-8504-0318e3ae53c0

So...get going and kick their asses first please!

Sadly not yet, but it embodies the best vision of what Europe one day might become.


The EU has always been more than that. And if you asks Ukrainians, they hope to gain more from joining it than some trade deal. They hope that it will further support their societies' development towards democracy and meritocracy.

I strongly suspect that Putin has threatened with nuclear escalation if the West supplied Ukraine with modern MBT. Otherwise it does not make sense why not only Germany, but also the USA, UK, France and Italy have refused all Ukrainian pleas on that matter.

But but I thought germany was the leader of europe, u defintetly were with the fake refugee crisis and the greek euro economic crisis, and introducing green energy policies for europe.

so then, lead the ******* way please!

Like the Challenger tanks that have already been sent to Poland as backfill for the T72 tanks that Poland has sent to the Ukrainian army?

Meanwhile:

"Ukraine's foreign minister has renewed criticism of Germany for failing to send tanks to help fight Russian forces, saying the new weapons pledged by Berlin were "not what we need most"."

"he foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, as saying Germany's decisions were a "mystery" and that there was a "weapon wall" in Berlin that the chancellor, Olaf Scholz, had to tear down."

theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-putin-warns-attacks-on-ukrainian-infrastructure-could-be-ramped-up-latest-updates

Really!

But no to Ukraine. Just like the German ring exchange

Yeah....that seems to be the bone of contention here!


spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/ukraine-krieg-olaf-scholz-verteidigt-nein-zu-panzerlieferungen-a-e25048e2-ff86-4939-8504-0318e3ae53c0

What 'contention'???

As far as I know, Ukraine is very happy indeed with the Challengers currently deployed in Poland to replace the T72s that have gone to them. They haven't requested any to be sent to them directly and haven't criticised the UK's military support.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-62002218

I agree....that sounds more like another lame excuse by Scholz.

*sighs* I tell you there is something else going on here....maybe really a nuke threat by Putin, I really have no other explanation for that all....sorry!


*nods*

Sadly yes.


You've nothing to be sorry for regarding support to the Ukraine; you have made your support clear here. I gather the Bundestag are also opposing the government there on this issue.

Re. Scholz and his circle, I've long thought that there's something happening that we don't know about. Probably not a direct nuclear threat but still something. It can't be as simple as kompromat, can it?