Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

Frankly....I would rather hope for some nuke threat instead of a humiliating "kompromat", less embarrassing for the whole country!

Again, Johnson for all his blustering has refrained from sending tanks to Ukraine too.

The difference is that the public discourse on weapon deliveries is more public in Germany, in part of the nature of a coalition government. If Johnson or Macron says no, that is it, but in Germany, politicians from other parties - who may not privy to Scholz' informations. - can publically disagree. Hence the Ukrainian officials trying to apply public pressure on Berlin which they know would be futile on London, Rome or Paris.


Nothing embarassing about being an important ally of Ukraine. I'd wish we' do more,but being 3rd on military matters and likely 2nd in total once this war is over is quite decent.

...or because we are just the nearest neighbour....(and we know the map)

It boggles the mind:

..."Germany could deliver dozens of battle tanks by the end of the year"

In addition, the defense industry is ready to supply Ukraine with heavy equipment. Decommissioned by the Bundeswehr Marder armored largely restored The Marder are deliverable, the company informed the NDR and the ARD capital studio on Tuesday. But so far there is no export license from the federal government. 70 other vehicles from old stock could be made usable again. ...

morgenpost.de/politik/article236421889/ukraine-krieg-waffen-lieferung-panzer-scholz.html


For the right reasons, yes....but not like this! We definitely could do more and nobody really knows why we don't, that is NOT the right reason!

They'd be more likely to make that threat to one or all of the three nuclear states in NATO rather than a third country. Could be chemical, biological or as yetunknown economic threats. That or some seriously heavy kompromat.



Ukraine haven't requested them, have thanked the UK for supplying the Challenger tanks and have not as far as I know criticised the UK's response to their invasion.

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Well, and the USA has thousands of Abrams in storage. The UK has also a lot of vehicles in reserve. Johnson loved to present himself as Ukraine's ally to distract from his scandala, yet he never choose to deliver them. Why? Was he also compromised?


Not publically perhaps. But there is no reason to believe they'd want exclusively German tanks.

So did Ukraine. Perhaps because he actually was Ukraine's ally as his successor (the Foreign Secretary at the time and an ally to Ukraine) is now.

Remind us which western European state Ukraine is most critical of?


Are Ukraine currently requesting more Challengers to be sent? Or other specific additional equipment or training from the UK to be sent that is not already?

Do let us know since the world's media would doubtless like to report on the issue.

Ukraine initially asked for tanks from Germany on secret or informal channels, they only started to apply public pressure once they got rejected because there were coalition politicians who might support them. Which would not work in the UK.


If they are rational, either Italy or France, both of which have shown little military support and came close or might elect a Pro-Putin right-wing politician.

I am aware of none such deal. There is a British Challenger company (14 tanks), as a part of NATO forces, deployed in Poland but Polish army received none. We would have no use of them anyway. We already have Abrams and K2s coming and another type of tank would introduce more chaos than increase our operational capacities.

We gave Ukrainians the equivalent of 1.5 panzer divisions in T-72s and PT-91s. No western country - maybe with the exception of the US - has capability of replacing that for us in short period of time. Hence the shopping we did in Korea and the US.

We also gave them a lot of artillery - Krabs, Grads, 2S1s, MANPADS, RPGs, kamikaze drones, assault rifles, modern mortars - sh*tloads of stuff. Here's an incomplete list as of July (and a lot was sent since then, including PT-91s)...

tech.wp.pl/polska-bron-dla-ukrainy-lista-sprzetu-jest-imponujaca,6791314005494528a

... if France, Britain, Italy and Germany gave proportionally similar amounts of arms - compared to the size of their armies and military budgets - as Poland did, Ukrainian would have the strongest army in the world and this war would be over by now.

Did it need to given that Ukraine's request 'worked' very well without the need for additional pressure against an obstructive government?


That is a particularly lame comment.

Now tell us about these vehicles you say are held in reserve in the UK and specifically about any items or support that Ukraine has requested yet somehow not received.


Precisely. As backfill for the T72s as previously mentioned.

A company is hardly a backfill for 1.5 divisions, but hey - every little helps.

It was however what was requested.

In full, on time and without hesitation.

Germany however is still dragging its heels seven months into the war.

It is first foremost the truth. It is obvious that Ukrainians' s supposed trust or distrust is not as you imply based on the actions of the various governments. Otherwise Germany would be treasures as an important ally, but well.

Also, let's be fair and not forget one of the largest suppliers of tanks and other equipment to Ukraine - namely Russia. During the Kharkiv offensive Ukrainian army took a lot of equipment abandoned by Russian forces - among other things, 110 tanks and over 150 AFVs!

That actually makes Russia the 3rd largest supplier of military equipment to Ukraine after USA and Poland. :)

....did they really used ammo from WWII???

I've seen pics on Twitter...hardly believable though!

The Russians? I'm not sure, but the equipment taken by Ukrainians in Kharkiv offensive is relatively modern: T-80BW (even a couple of the BWM version), T-72B, T-72B3. So these can be either incorporated into Ukrainian units right away or used as spare part reservoirs.

That's even lamer; and entirely untrue.

About items you say are being held in reserve that you claimed have been requested from the UK but not sent (do give details, I'm sure the media would love to know since it's a quiet time for news in the UK right now), do they include the:

120 armoured vehicles,
5,800 anti-tank missiles,
five air defence systems,
1,000 rockets (as of June),
4.5 tonnes of explosives (as of June),
the electronic warfare equipment,
the counter-battery radar systems,
the GPS jamming equipment,
the thousands of night-vision devices,
the starstreak missiles,
the inteligence support,
and the 22,000 Ukrainian soldiers trained in the UK?

These figures were correct three months ago; up to date figures are harder since so much is supplied daily on flights to Rzeszów..


Of course Ukraine would never accept artillery shells from a country of war criminals like r*SSia; so they're sending every single one of them right back at very high speed.

haha bratwurst u getting behind in your polandball i thought you would have posted at least this one ;)

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Oh it's coming alright as Putin gets shoved back into his corner further every day getting more desperate.
Lets just pray that it is not tactical nukes because I fear no country on earth has the balls to counter with nukes if he does.

Germany has delivered more military aid than France, Italy and Spain combined. It houses more refugees and has given more financial and economic aid. France and Italy have in the past bought Russian energy at similar levels as Germany. Both were opposed to further sanctions after Crimea and were just as vocal in the belief of cooperating with Russia, if not more so. The most likely next Italian PM is a know Putin admirer. Yet Ukrainians supposedly trust them more. Doesn't sound very rational to me.

When you have to compare yourself to the other old europe fools then u are scraping the bottom of the barrel


No they don't , they regard you as dodgy and unreliable allies equally.

Someone mentioned Spain - they sent five transport planes to Ukraine today, filled with large-caliber artillery ammunition. I bet it will come in handy.

As for Germany, they decided today, after weeks of hesitation, to sell Ukrainians 18 RCH-155 howitzers, so maybe that's a sign of shift in their attitude. Fingers crossed.

I was so tempted though....

That's not the highest of bars, but good that aid is now slowly being provided.


Best to ask the Ukrainian government. Theirs is the only voice that matters here.

They had to wait for American AID money to buy them.

Meloni is said to be a Putin-Admirer....I dunno if she keeps that up once elected but it should matter to Ukraine. Not to mention a possible Le Pen in Paris....at least such nutters are impossible in Berlin (anytime soon)!

I doubt Ukraine would have anything positive to say about either of them, and nor would they have as much influence on the west's response as they might think they have.

There are a few political dangers to Ukraine. trumpet is one of them, however he's out of office, Erdogan is another although he's more likely to be opportunistic, particularly as r*SSia's weakness is an advantage to him with Azerbaijan.


The same in London; the FPP electoral system keeps extremists away from power.

biden said Putin would face a "consequential" US response if the Russian president used nuclear or chemical weapons in the war in Ukraine.
(And our NATO allies would do what ?)
Quote
"Don't. Don't. Don't," biden said in an excerpt from an interview with CBS's "60 Minutes" when asked what he would say if Putin were considering using tactical nuclear weapons or chemical weapons. "You will change the face of war unlike anything since World War II."

And depending on the extent of what they do will determine what response would occur."
biden's full CBS interview will be broadcast on Sunday night which will be no more than some more political pot and pan banging.

Yes, we all made a mistake. But now it is over! Finito! RuSSists - bugger off to Asia where you fekking belong!!!


Don`t be silly. You don`t think, you only believe so. :):)
As for developing nukes if that`s what you mean, they won`t coz Europe and the USA won`t allow it.

The Ukrainian Army have crossed the Oskil river cutting off r*SSian supply lines to Luhansk and there is currently sighting in the streets of Kherson.

It's far to early to say this is over or even the beginning of the end, however today's events there have been major ones.