Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 4

calling it that one million times will not make it true... the plain fact is that Ukraine has outgrown the limited and stunted russian sphere and wants to join the west, which for all its flaws, is still about a hundred times better than the garbage culture that is russia...

Ukrainians are not russians.... never were, never will be.

If russia wants to open up the border question.... it will not end well for russia.... prepare to be even more geographically disadvantaged...

No, Velund, it's simply RuSSia's style to not admitt RuSSia's fault at anything. RuSSia started this war - this is a fact.


"Crimean story" and "Donbass uprising" was a result of RuSSian propaganda brainwashing people living there, pitting them against Western Ukrainians and the West, scaremongering and sending RuSSian "green men" there. I can see that your brain has been completely eaten by Kremlin propaganda too.


What kind of f*cked up bullsh1t is this? lol No outside force invaded the USSR - it fell apart by itself and the independence of former Soviet republics was eventually accepted by the Soviet authorities and later by Russia.

Yugoslavia was also an artificial communist entity that fell apart due to internal wars:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia

While RuSSia INVADED already existing, independent Ukraine to which Russia gave security assurances for giving up it's nukes:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum

The Maidan coup in Ukraine and the expulsion of the elected president and de facto government made all previous treaties questionable. The attack on the Donbass, which refused to submit to the Bandera junta and attempts to resolve this issue in a relatively peaceful way (without the use of regular armed forces) led to a humanitarian disaster and the death of 14,000+ civilians in the Donbass. In addition, paramilitary neo-Nazi movements formed on the territory of the puppet quasi-state "Ukraine". The situation has reached an extreme, so now youwill have to watch the gradual collapse of this puppet pseudo-state. The more people we can save in the end, the better, but the Banderite tumor between Russia and Poland must be removed and no growth zones must remain.

What people???

Do you remember the party in Berlin '89? THESE people wanted to be saved....the Yugoslavians hated each others guts and couldn't wait to split as "Iron Fist" Tito died, the only one keeping it together....people today party when the russian troops are leaving, they are waving ukrainian flags...do you spot the differences?

"Outside force" not necessarily mean military intervention. Billions, spent on funding internal traitors, NGOs and mass media brainwashing will sometimes work better than military units. This is what we seen in USSR.

But if USSR fell apart, why shards of USSR cannot fell apart (for example due to unsolved problems and wrongly drawn borders at moment of USSR collapse)?

No. The current Polish statehood is the result of millions of people who fought bravely to restore it and who are ready to fight and die for it again if need be. Of course, it's possible - in favourable circumstances - to defeat a tough, defiant and stubborn nation like Poland but:

1) not for long :)
2) it would require tremendous power (power that Russia doesn't have).


History taught us that any treaty can be revoked and any border can de redrawn. It's possible but it requires power - the power that Russia doesn't have, but I'm repeating myself. :)

Do you know how much people decide to move to Russia-controlled territory in last days before leaving Kherson?

Yes, there is a lot of people with Bandera in the head left behind, 8 years of powerful and highly professional brainwashing give results...

@Velund
Fvck the Russians in Donbas. It is Ukraine land. Want to be Russian, go fvcking live there. Every Russian in Ukraine should be hunted down and hung, shot or deported to Russia. No questions asked. I wonder how it feels for you to know that people around the world would knowingly take sniper shots at people like you without remorse if they knew who you were.

If so it would had been a much smarter way for Moscow to achieve it's goals....with a way better possibility of longterm success.

I think Russia tried that....but it didn't work and had no real chance of success because the foundation just wasn't there in Ukraine, not enough pro-russian sentiment to use or at least not as strong as needed. Hence the look for a military enforcement.

Do you agree, Velund?


I'm not sure if that argument holds much sway....we in the GDR were exposed over 40 years to socialist + especially anti-West-german brainwashing....it didn't help the party in East-Berlin in the end at all!

Change of power (or lack of it) - no matter whether democratic or non-democratic - doesn't make any treaties between states "questionable". There hasn't been a real democratic change of power in RuSSia and Belarus for years, so we could say that their governments aren't legitimate. Does that mean we should view any past treaties with those countries as "questionable"?


I don't think he cares... about people... their lives... and other such "details"...


Oh, do tell... Quite some time ago when Kherson was still occupied by RuSSian troops I've read that only 40% of inhabitants stayed in the city. Where do you think those 60% went?

Even if the missile was fired by Ukrainians, it is still RuSSia to blame coz it started and is waging an illegal war, while Ukrainians are only defending their country.

.Fekk RuSSia, all RuSSists and silent RuSSians.

Why we should repair something that is works and not broken? Why we should change regime that manage, slowly but steadily, to rise living standard well above we had in USSR and external debt kept at minimum during this? Just because <1% pro-western liberasts feel itself frustrated? Fcuk them...

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg agreed with Polish and U.S. assessments on Wednesday that the missile strike that killed two civilians in Poland were not an intentional attack, and that the missile, which was initially reported as a "Russian attack," was of Ukrainian origin.

MORE: rebelne.ws/3tyoIf5

@Velund, you didn't answer my question:


?


This war has shown how poorly it works and that RuSSia is broken in many ways. It proves that there should be a democratic change of power from time to time, because power corrupts and makes those in power detached from reality on the ground. Of course, in a way it's good for Ukraine, because your corrupted country is less of a formidable enemy to them. So I'm not complaining lol

On the other hand, maybe a democratic Russia would be a better country with better people that would be able to have friendly or at least normal relations with it's neighbours and the West and wouldn't invade neighbouring countries... Who knows... I'll probably won't live long enough to find out though.

Now RuSSia is sinking fast under Western sanctions and due to mass emigration and soon the standards of USSR will be only a nice memory to RuSSists and RuSSians.

Fekk RuSSia until it falls into pieces!

This actually sounds like what RuSSia was doing for years to Ukraine.


Bullsh1t! lol Do you honestly think that, for example, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania needed any "brainwashing" in order to want to be independent countries? :D On what planet are you living?? o_O Jesus... RuSSians are seriously detached from reality... This is scary...

Tell me, who told you that the people of a sovereign country are obliged to change the president and government in order for them to remain legitimate? Who took away their right to decide the mode of election, the length of the term of office, and the number of permissible cadences for elected leaders?

And the answer is simple - only an illegitimate change of power or outright violations of the constitutional order of elections (for example, a third round of voting, whereas the Constitution stipulates two) can put the treaties and the very recognition of the country into question.


Do you honestly think that Crimea, Donbass and Novorossia is deprived the same rights that you just granted to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania? If so, why?

Your "soldiers" (actually alcoholic teenagers and pensioners) have stolen all their kitchen equipment and crapped in their gardens. Of course the Donbassians want nothing more to do with Russia

In what area of Donetsk or Luhansk did you personally interview local residents?

It has been in the newspaper - their lives are miserable, they are sick of the thieves, rapists and murderers in their midst and they want to turn the clock back to 2014 before the gangsters took over

Oh, and they want to eat some proper food and use toilet paper again. No more grey gloop and sprats

@Velund
The beauty of all your and Russia's crying about Ukraine elections is that it is none of your fvcking business or Russia's business what happens in Ukraine. Simple. You said it yourself "sovereign country". Now you have yourself losing a war that you started, killing off a generation of your men when your population is already in hyper decline, the nation is a pariah in the western world, a crumbling economy, and all of this gets worse by the day. Bravo! Well done. LMFAO

Meanwhile, in the real war, not in delusional fantasy land where Velund and the boys reside, the Orc's are now being liquidated on the eastern side of the river in Kherson. Ukraine is steadily advancing on the Orc's who ran with all they could steal out of Kherson. Fortunately, all the flat screen TV's, washing machines, and cell phone chargers are not working as bullet proof body armor and electronics are being recaptured at a record setting pace. Happy gulag biatches!

It was... Before 2014. After 2014 it is puppet state on external control.

And we have business there, and will have in future, as every third family have close relatives in modern Ukraine. That is quite different from US/UK that really have no fcuking business there.

@Velund
Even if I agreed with you, Russia still has zero standing to invade Ukraine. It is a Ukraine issue for Ukraine people to decide. Maybe you are cousins, like England and Ireland could be cousins. We all know how well that cousin relationship worked out in Northern Ireland for decades. The fact that Russia has no business there is simply indisputable, they simply have no right or standing to legally be in Ukraine lands.

Now your country really is a laughing stock militarily. How could Putin be so fvcking stupid to believe his generals, and to not really know how incapable the military is, how poorly prepared they are, and how absolutely atrocious the equipment is? Only an absolute idiot, or someone who really does not GAF about his country could overlook such obvious problems.

Russia has already lost this war. There really is no point n continuing other than to have Putin not look like a total failure. It is no longer about Russia or Ukraine it is only about his political survival. And suckers like you are still standing at the propaganda bread line.

putin was deliberately misinformed. This happens to dictators.

@Alien
I understand that. My point is that every real leader, in a government, a company, or even their home will at some points go through everything happening within their realm of control in order to ensure that everything is really operating the way it should. Elon Musk sleeps at Twitter now as he goes through everything, just like he did at Tesla. All the best US presidents were absolute workhorses, who were very hands on. Throughout history, all the best world leaders got their hands dirty in the actual details of what they were involved with, Churchill is an example.

Even if Putin was lied to, and even if all the lies could be believed, how TF was this retard spending his time? Because he sure wasn't governing and making his country better. He sure wasn't improving the lives of his people. What do you do in the Kremlin all day with unlimited power over the dutiful sheep? Read history books and repeat lessons proven to fail in the past? How does a real leader not just show up unannounced at places to check on things? This simply defies logic.

@PolAmKrakow
Dictators don't like bad news. Therefore those who tell them the truth are turned away. Only those who tell a convenient untruth remain. It's always worked like this. Homo sovieticus.

@Alien
One only has to wait with telling bad news until they have been dealt with (turn it in to a sucess story), and bring good news.

Such dictators become dictators to avoid work and only reap the benefits cause that's how they envision leadership. (Mostly due to seeing passive and peaceful leaders that delegates work tasks, but work with things themselves if nobody else manages to do it for him. The "do it yourself if nobody else can" escapes many. But, also micromanaging every detail while being withheld information is also a doom making scenario for dictators)

Exactly... listening to russians defend their system is both tragic and hilarious (in a Schadenfreude kind of way).... on the one hand it's like abused kids who defend their parents and on the other it's a bit like sheep defending the farmer's taste for mutton stew....

Why on earth would any sane person want to live like that?

It's clear that the slave mentality of russia is a bad fit for Ukrainians.

@mafketis
It's because they look at abuse as a form of care, it comes out of the thinking that only a person who cares for them act in such a manner. (Strangers don't abuse you, parents do).

For Russian society abuse is normal, as a forewarning of something more terrible, build up character and prepare for the worst. In a harsh climate, at the Siberian frontier could had been a necessity. But, nowadays in the modern world?

Not so much anymore, my problem with Russian society is that it looks like they fear Putin and Russian state more then they fear God. Which puts their Christian identity in to question

@Bratwurst Boy
Revival? Continued existance, just because your outside of it BB. Doesn't mean it's dead, just becaouse your interaction with it is basically dead.

You are just outside of the good company, out in the jungle, on your own and those that you know.

Keep to the topic of the thread please