Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

Dear God, please keep it open till next November! I beg you...I you can, Dear Lord, give us more migrant rapes and murders...

I follow this war as a near obsession. I don't think there's very many people who read more about it, that do not get paid to do so.

It's probably not good for my mental health, and overall a poor use of my time.

It also always takes me aback, when I read somewhere how a journalist asks a soldier something like, "What are you gonna do, after we win?" - and then the inevitable answer: "I don't know, I don't think about that." Makes me feel especially stupid, sitting where I am. That is, I think I follow the news so closely in some vain hope of divining when victory will finally come and what shape it will take - but to the people actually involved it's not even an afterthought. Two things only on their minds: exhaustion and survival.

Sorry, I digress... My point is very simple, and maybe a little arrogant. That is - I've been reading about this conflict, nonstop, and it hasn't made me any better equipped to make judgments about it than Jon or Maf. Ok, that may be a stretch - but basically people that are not Novichok-level geniuses should be wary of making forecasts. Of course I could argue that I saw the early symptoms of Western fatigue, the simmering animosity between Zelensky and Zaluzhny, the mismatch between Western commitments and their capabilities, etc. - but I would not have been able to tell you if these things will come to the fore in 6 months or in 2 years.

You think your troops - hungover, poorly equipped, no medicine, underfed and sexually abused by their officers - will last another 6 months ? LOL

Tell me, Bonaparte - where will Ukrainian soldiers be in 6 months? Sieging the walls of the Kremlin?

...and your only reward is that you, along with PAK, make this forum worth reading.

My daily atheist prayer is for this war to be over, for Russia and the US to be at least civil if not friends, and for me to be on that Moscow-St. Pete train.


STFU...

I wish I could speak to them...

You can speak to many of them on Facebook and Twitter. The "translate" button is your friend. However, many of them speak English too.

Despite 10,000 memos and threats from higher command - Russian and Ukrainian troops continue to bring iPhones and tablets to the front. There are many soldiers, that are even leading semi-official telegram accounts (more true of former Wagner, and various militias where discipline is less strict).

Average statistical Ukrainian soldier is the same as average statistical Russian soldier and the same as average statistical American soldier.

People everywhere are the same.

The Ukrainian troops don't want to get to the walls of the Kremlin - they were perfectly happy in their own country until it was invaded by big eared drunk Siberian farm boys in Feb 2022.

Now what they want is to protect their families and houses from thieving rapists.

You seriously think discipline in the Udmurtian army is comparable to Ukraine ? And of course nowhere near a professional army like US or even Poland.

The only thing Udmurtians are disciplined about is opening their first half liter before breakfast is served

No they are not. Ukrainians don't have some weird sick and primitive obsession with having a big empire... they'd rather be healthy, happy and prosperous.... why don't russians want that?

...and Z is still equal P for the average guy, his nagging wife, and screaming kids.

But, somehow, according to the morons here, Z-P is worth dying for. To make it more compelling, they sprinkle their idiotic posts with "freedom and democracy" and other meaningless crap. The less specific, the better. When asked to explain what these two mean, they go silent or call you names.

BTW, if you want to see an idiot in action, read #548.

They shouldn't have elected Z - a US wh*ore - who was this close to preventing this bloody mess. But who*res, especially those that are paid well, do exactly what their pimps tell them.

Now you know why good men are still dying in Ukraine.
BTW, I hope you already know who the pimps are so I don't have to name them again.

I expect it is much better, actually.

Ukraine has maybe not a true "citizen army" (too many people of means have escaped), but its army still represents a wider cross section of Ukrainian society than the Russian army does of Russian society.

That is, Ukraine's army really does have plenty of lawyers, dentists, clerks, managers, etc.

Russia's army is mostly made up contract soldiers, conscripts that were rolled over, and mobilized reservists.

I'm not saying there aren't a large number of middle-aged Russians fumbling about on the front, but there's proportionately less of them than in Ukraine.

Want to know what happens when you send a 45 year old lawyer to the front, where a 25 year old commander will berate him before sending him on a suicidal mission? You get the same issues every corporate HR department has dealt with at some point. However, in military terms - what you get is a degradation of discipline.

Ukrainian units routinely refuse/disobey commands that they think are suicidal, and treat timetables as something flexible. This was the main British/American criticism of this summer's offensive. That the Ukrainians failed to do, what they had discussed with NATO planners - committing an overwhelming force on a narrow stretch of the front to effect a real breakthrough.

What you call Russian "meat waves", is actually a sign of strong discipline and morale. What you call Ukrainian ingenuity and improvisation, is actually a sign of poor command and control. Not always, but in this specific context - yes.

Nonsense - the reason the Udmurtian army is still 600 days into a 3 day operation is poor discipline added to corruption and alcoholism

Your soldiers might be professional in name - in practice they are sent to the front with no ammo, no medical supplies, inadequate clothing and are completely expendable to their officers.

They are a laughing stock in military circles. Hopeless hopeless hopeless

Imagine that... lol


Source?


Bwahahahaha... OMG, Bobko, you seem to be so detached from reality...

That's not a sign of "strong discipline and morale", but of having no other choice and of commanders not having enough backbone/balls to say "no":

forbes.com/sites/willskipworth/2023/10/26/russia-executing-its-own-soldiers-who-disobey-orders-in-ukraine-white-house-alleges/

telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/03/russia-ukraine-war-storm-z-front-line-convicts/

At dying....


and indifference to life.... even their own..... russia is such a broken, destroyed society that many have no basic survival instinct....

No, it is in fact a sign of discipline.

When every soldier begins forming his own opinions about the rationality of this or that order, and following his own instincts - that is when things begin to fall apart.

There are competing doctrines regarding how much decision making power should be allocated to each rung of the hierarchy, but everyone agrees that soldiers need to obey their orders.

@Bobko, I wouldn't call it a "sign of discipline" in the army if whole units have to be threatened with executions for disobeying orders and if soldiers are actually being executed for disobeying orders and mutiny. That's fearing for your life, not discipline, let alone "strong morale" lol

For sources on British/American judgements of Ukrainian actions, read this amazing two part series from the Washington Post. It's being reprinted all over Ukrainian and Russian media.

Probably the most important articles to come out in the last 6 months.

Part 1: washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/04/ukraine-counteroffensive-us-planning-russia-war/

Part 2: washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/04/ukraine-counteroffensive-stalled-russia-war-defenses/

@Bobko
In the age before machine guns were a thing, Russian tactic of several+multiple waves of lines to exhaust a advancing enemy (battle of Poltava) was a sucessfull tactic and could be sort of sucessful on a macro scale in ww2 against early types of armor by providing lines of infantry with AT-guns.

In modern times it is slowly turning in to robotical armies, Ukrainians have not only increased use of drones (Russian side also). But use drones to fight Russian wave of soldiers, I hope I don't need to explain wasting men to capture a point or location that is unmanned (literally) by an enemy force.

Just like armies of Canadians and Americans trying to capture a island that Japanese soldiers abandoned right before the attack, performing friendly fire on each other.

Amount of materials being able to be bought from abroad, industry and tech to materialise it to the form that it needs, the energy to make it happen (also as cheaply as possible to increase possibility of production) and creativity in drone making will be the win or lose of future wars.

That way Russians tactics will be successful again, but not with Humans on frontline anymore.

Cause that will be wasting taxpayers, and potential fathers of new taxpayers that would do their duty to not make their sons leave the country.

But, you know. How can I possibly be right? I am not a Russian

@Bobko, I'd appreciate if you made my life easier and quote where does it say in those articles from the Washington Post that:

@Paulina

Just read the articles, Paulina.

@cms neuf
Regretfully, I believe in 6 months or less Russia will still have more bodies to throw at Ukraine than Ukrain has to defend the front lines. Why? Because Z has not gone to full mobilization or a full war time economy. And by those two inactions alone he is either incompetent or he, himself knows his fate is sealed and is looking for the best exit strategy.

This to me is looking more and more like Ukraine and Z have been bull$hiting the US and other allies as to their success on the battlefield. It is looking more and more like billions of dollars wasted. Hundreds of thousands of lives wasted on both sides. Again, I support defeating Putin, but at what cost, and how can we believe the Ukraine leaders? How many fvcking Ukraine military and government leaders have been fired over corruption? Things are not adding up for me, and they are not adding up for a lot of other people either.

I may read them later, but if you've read them already then why don't back up your claim with a quote?

Sorry, no. I'm not your secretary.

However, anyone that will read the articles will understand that what I wrote could be termed an understatement.

I'll post the Washington Post's own highlights of their admittedly long article. This is from Part 2:

● Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience.

● Ukraine's setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses.

● The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn't get in touch with Ukraine's top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American's second-guessing of battlefield decisions.

● Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn't seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield.

● In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone.

Forgive me Moderator, but this is only intended to get Paulina curious enough to actually read.

Ukraine has been asking for air cover since russia began its genocidal invasion... and the US has consistently refused to give it.

U can get whatever it needs from the EU. A million-man army, boatloads of money...Even nukes ...

It's not about being a secretary, but about backing up your claims with quotes, which I always try to do.


You don't have to get me curious. I'd read it, but it turns out those articles are with paid access, and so I can't read it.

They already have that (if we add Border Guard, National Guard and the police forces).


It's still flowing towards Ukraine, and the EU has contributed more than twice the amount the US has (as of September).


Well, we have the know-how and the money - it's time to put both to use to achieve EU nuclear sufficiency, so your wet dream of the US withdrawing back home across the Atlantic may finally come true. Whether it will be beneficial for the USA is a different question altogether. IMO it will be the beginning of the end of America as a global superpower both in political/military and economic sense.

One way or another, it's time for Europe to grow some heavy, hairy, nuclear balls.

#nukesfortheEU #goEuropeanArmy! #nukesforPoland #f*ckthenonproliferationtreaty

WP lets you read the first 10 articles or so for free. Just open the page in Chrome's incognito mode, or using a VPN if you already read your up to your limit.

You can also register a free account and read them.

They're begging to go home now, and the most vocal wives are being bribed to stop protesting.

Most won't come back. The orc toll has reached 320,000 and will only grow.