POLANDA : - powered by PolishForums   Classifieds [72] Off-Topic [311]
2410    

Off-Topicpage 4 of 81

Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8



mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #91

What specifically did Putin d

Why are you so lazy? Do your own research... maybe it'll shake you out of your complacent ignorance.

Bobko
26 Nov 2023  #92

What specifically did Putin do?

I'm also curious.

After so many years of listening about how we habitually broke the Minsk II accords, it would be nice to have a list of our infractions.

I can start by calling out how Ukraine refused to honor the agreements, but for this we need to know what was signed, first. Here's the protocol:

1) To ensure an immediate bilateral ceasefire.

2) To ensure the monitoring and verification of the ceasefire by the OSCE.

3) Decentralisation of power, including through the adoption of the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".

4) To ensure the permanent monitoring of the Ukrainian-Russian border and verification by the OSCE with the creation of security zones in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.

5) Immediate release of all hostages and illegally detained persons.

6) A law preventing the prosecution and punishment of people in connection with the events that have taken place in some areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.

7) To continue the inclusive national dialogue.

8) To take measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Donbas.

9) To ensure early local elections in accordance with the Ukrainian law "On temporary Order of Local Self-Governance in Particular Districts of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts".

10) To withdraw illegal armed groups and military equipment as well as fighters and mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine.

11) To adopt a programme of economic recovery and reconstruction for the Donbas region.

12) To provide personal security for participants in the consultations.

We Russians believe Ukraine failed to deliver on points 3,6, and 9 - big time.

Ukraine says, it didn't do any of those things because we didn't fulfill #10. We argue, that it is clear from how the document is written that the things before #10 have to happen first.

Here we are... 500K dead later.

Tacitus
26 Nov 2023  #93

Just a reminder, that is what Russia signed in Budapest.

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and The United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Russia broke that promise, just like it broke the Helsinki Accords and other binding treaties it signed.

That is the reality.

We argue, that it is clear from how the document is written that the things before #10 have to happen first.

What an absurd argument. Russia had made it abundantly clear in Crimea that there would be no free or fair elections within the territory it controlled (just as there were no longer free and fair elections in Russia proper). Of course Russia had to withdraw its troops before such an election could take place.

Bobko
26 Nov 2023  #94

@Tacitus

My friend, you forget to mention that the thing that was signed in Budapest - was a memorandum.

It had and has no legal power. We didn't violate anything, but a certain understanding - which existed in a time when current events were unthinkable.

We have two lawyers at the head of our government now. Putin and Medvedev. Medvedev is actually a professor that was teaching law, before being called up to government service. These two guys are surprisingly concerned about the legal optics of their actions - sometimes comically so. Think about their little presidential switcheroo - done to avoid problems with the constitution.

Velund
26 Nov 2023  #95

I need your help...

Rich, I'm going to dodge this task. First of all, I have the problem of describing everything in words so simple that the inter-ear ganglion, hardened by Polish poetics, would be able to perceive it. Secondly, it would probably be more humane to let them die as fools. Otherwise, they may suffer unbearably from the thought that most of the freedoms they were presented with as a decisive advantage of the Western world are actually not worth a shell from an egg eaten (by someone else).... ;)

Tacitus
26 Nov 2023  #96

These two guys are surprisingly concerned about the legal optics of their actions

That is honestly one of the funniest claims I've read about Putin and Mr. "We are going to nuke you if you keep sending weapons to Ukraine". The annexation of Ukraine was already such a clear violation of international law that not even China supported it.

Putin is a KGB agent (which means he has no concern for the law when it suits him) and his ties to organized crime in St. Petersburg were most likely decisive in his political ascension. He orders the assasination of his opponents and critics in a way that leaves no doubt that he is behind them.

was a memorandum

Russia also signed the Russian-Ukrainian friendship treaty and the Russian-Ukrainian border treaty.

Bobko
26 Nov 2023  #97

That is honestly one of the funniest claims

I'm glad you think it's funny. I think it's funny too.

We have these two little dwarf lawyers controlling our life for the past twenty years. They dress up every little action they do, in all the possible legal accoutrement that Russian law can afford. It's done as if the Russian people are blind and deaf.

This is not to make you think, that I support my government any less for its actions in Ukraine. Perhaps the one thing it has done, which makes sense to nearly every Russian citizen.

mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #98

ussia also signed

russians lie.... that's what they do. they sign things and then do the opposite... Germany's biggest single post WWII was trusting russians (not only Germany's but no country went so all in as Germany did assuming russians preferred prosperity to war and misery).

Bobko
26 Nov 2023  #99

russians lie....

At least we don't lie to the extent to cover Israel for its wholesale destruction of Arab women and children.

mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #100

At least

What is the significance of the date of the mass terror attack by Hamas?

thinks that make you go hmmmmm.....

wholesale destruction of Arab women and children

how many Arab women and children has russia killed in Syria?

Paulina
26 Nov 2023  #101

My friend, you forget to mention that the thing that was signed in Budapest - was a memorandum.

It had and has no legal power. We didn't violate anything, but a certain understanding

LOL!

At least it was a signed official document known to the public and not some alleged "promises" (or "understanding", as you call it lol) to RuSSia happening behind curtains like those concerning NATO "not expanding to the East" that RuSSians claim weren't kept and which they claim is an evidence that the West/NATO can't be trusted :)))

This is not to make you think, that I support my government any less for its actions in Ukraine.

barf

Perhaps the one thing it has done, which makes sense to nearly every Russian citizen.

Then every RuSSian citizen who supports it will be condemned for it.

Bobko
26 Nov 2023  #102

What is the significance of the date of the mass terror attack by Hamas?

I see - another believer of the Church of Colonialism - who does not believe that Hamas and Iran could plan something like 10/7. Of course - it is evident - these are Wagner tactics on display. These backwards ragheads could never mastermind such an operation.

The Russians are willing to light the Middle East on fire, if it means distracting attention from Ukraine.

Correct?

It's not the apartheid regime and subhuman treatment of Palestinians which is to blame... but Wagner?

mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #103

Meanwhile, in deepest russia, the tractor factory in Chelyabinsk is no longer not a fiery inferno....

residents claim they heard a booom before the plant decided that self-immolation was preferable to helping the russian war effort....

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1728836372088139917

jon357
26 Nov 2023  #104

the tractor factory in Chelyabinsk is no longer not a fiery inferno....

Ah well....

At least Moscow Airport is closed.

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #105

And, btw, Poland was grey during communist times. It's not grey anymore :)))

Ironically, you are right here. The first thing i saw visiting Warsow my first time, was homeless guy with bare ass simply lying in front of the House of Culture... Very colorful...

Alien
26 Nov 2023  #106

was homeless guy with bare ass simply lying in front of the House of Culture.

When was it, probably about 20 years ago.

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #107

At a stalemate Russia is not a victor, and Ukraine has proven they can stop the big red machine.

There are no any stalemate at all, this is just western dumb wishful thinking...

Paulina
26 Nov 2023  #108

homeless guy with bare ass simply lying in front of the House of Culture...

And that's all you've remembered from your visit to Warsaw? :D

visiting Warsow my first time

Wow, so there was a second time?? :O And when did you visit for the first time?

mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #109

all you've remembered from your visit to Warsaw?

a taste of home!

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #110

And that's all you've remembered from your visit to Warsaw? :D

Ugly trains which are always late and apple tree plantations everywhere. Making Poland in my eyes to look like some sort of Banana Republic of the East...

Novichok
26 Nov 2023  #111

Why are you so lazy? Do your own research...

You already did it. A link would be fine.

Paulina
26 Nov 2023  #112

@ConstantineK, so when did you visit Warsaw for the first and for the last time? :)

Did you visit any museums perhaps? Or did you find them to be blocked by banana trees growing everywhere? ;D

Making Poland in my eyes to look like some sort of Banana Republic of the East...

;D ;D ;D

ConstantineK, you are truly... "special" :)))

mafketis
26 Nov 2023  #113

A link would be fine.

You wouldn't learn then, would you?

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #114

@ConstantineK, so when did you visit Warsaw for the first and for the last time? :)

2013, 2014 and 2016....

Did you visit any museums perhaps?

What do you mean? Auschwiz?

Novichok
26 Nov 2023  #115

Children, now I will tell you a secret... so pay attention...Here we go...

The surest way to detect a demagoguing moron is by asking the moron to support his own claims with evidence.

The second rule is: Never argue back because these morons never read what you post. Always ask questions! One question per post or they will pick the one they hate less.

Then wait for "do it yourself" as proof that you hit said moron on the balls. This applies only to men. Women should be avoided like a plague when discussing anything.

Paulina
26 Nov 2023  #116

2013, 2014 and 2016....

Three times?? And you didn't get killed or anything? lol Why did you visit Poland anyway? 🤔

Auschwiz?

In Warsaw? 🙄

Alien
26 Nov 2023  #117

Why did you visit Poland anyway? 🤔

Preparations for hybrid war, I would say.

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #118

Why did you visit Poland anyway? 🤔

Visited some customers all over the country.

And you didn't get killed or anything?

I have no issues with normal people. I had very good chats with workers of Tarnowa Azoty plant. Absolutely adequate people there...

In Warsaw? 🙄

Again, i travelled all over Poland by car, by local trains... Ah good old beautiful city Stalinogrod, looks so shabby as Katovice...

Paulina
26 Nov 2023  #119

Visited some customers all over the country.

Ah... Meh.

Ah good old beautiful city Stalinogrod,

Katowice is a young city by Polish standards and I don't think it has ever been considered "beautiful" o_O

Have you been to Poland during communist times?

looks so shabby as Katovice...

Nah, bullsh1t :)

Katowice in PRL times:

Katowice1

Today:

Katowice2

ConstantineK
26 Nov 2023  #120

Ah... Meh.

You see, i know your country and its people from within... I am not just any of you who are just sitting here and fantasizing how its neighbor is savage...i have true facts in my hands...


PreviousNext
Happy New Year [40]USA News and Poland - part 8 [1844]


Off-Topic / Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8top