Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

@ConstantineK, what do you think about the RuSSian state propaganda then, which is portraying Poles as rabid Russophobes and Poland as a dangerous country for Russians and Russian-speaking people?

Well, Paulina, i presume you are not blondy girl. You must perfectly see how Poland is doubling down towards its own distruction... Poland is dangerous for herself first....

@ConstantineK, this is not an answer to my question :)))


lol

Hmm, you could be right, Alien... 🤔 Maybe ConstantineK is a SHPION :O ;D

Not Poland itself, and not most of sane Polish people (though there is a lot of rabid xenophobes). Tragedy of Poland as formally independent state is that local elites is relatively cheap and wholly owned by masters from other side of the pond, so national interests doesn't matter.

All russian "propaganda" clearly distinguished Poland elites, which are utterly rusophobic, and brainwashed polish people....

ConstantineK when seeing a naked ass of a homeless guy in Warsaw:

Caramba!!!



;D


Oh, Velund, Velund... You people never learn.


That's not the impression I got from what Russians who came to Poland were saying in various videos I've seen on YouTube. Including that guy from Transnistria.

Like telling a kid that his daddy fvcked mommie for fun and that he was a mistake.


This is what one demands after winning a war, me thinks...

Hey, Paulina, I read that crap about indoctrination in Polish schools. Three points:

1. Never, ever insult my intelligence like this again.

2. Next time, what you post better be differential (A vs. B), not some idealistic BS with Heaven as a point of reference. If what Polish schools did was indoctrination, the US schools and unis practice criminal child abuse with the latest tool being transgender "health care".

3. Before your parents had you, I was already in those schools. And so were my brother, my wife, and my WUT buddies. Not a single one mentioned indoctrination or suffered from it because it didn't exist. Or the indoctrinators were utterly incompetent. No, we didn't take additional courses on how to love the Soviets. We have them here about blacks and the LGBTs.

Here, in this educational paradise, we have generations of morons who actually believe what their equally moronic leftist professors told them - including that a man can be a woman.

Earlier, that the US went to Korea and Vietnam to "defend freedom and democracy". That indoctrination cost the US 100,000 dead Americans. Nobody in Poland went to some craphole 10,000 miles away to die for Marx, Lenin, or Bierut.

Still want to discuss "indoctrination", you stupid Polish woman?

He was not my personal type of guy, honestly... Though, my personal opinion...polish guys have very good, in term of size, dicks....i know

But as a young man you decided to leave Russian occupied Poland forever.......so it was not exactly a paradise was it?

If you insist, I will explain the difference between "occupied" and "stationed in".
First, is the US Army occupying Germany or stationed in Germany?

Denying soviet atrocities is a huge disrespect to those who suffered from it. For example, no British nationalist would ever deny that what British did during the opium war and with India during WW2 was atrocious. They would say that they wanna the good of it distancing from the bad and recognizing as an mistake. Ruskies on other hand deny all soviet atrocities.

Hey, stupid Polak, "Ruskies" don't deny anything - including Katyn. They do deny taking that Smolensk-bound Polish plane down with an a-hole for a pilot who couldn't figure out what "hey, moron, get the fvck out of here because the fog is too dense" meant.


No Soviet committed any atrocities on any member of my family or me. That's all I care about.

I know that stupid Polaks are still smart enough to know that "occupation" can mean a lot of different things so they rely on the readers' tendency to apply the most extreme definition from their experience with the Gestapo and SS.

To prove me wrong, name those Soviet atrocities in Poland after 1945. I want numbers so take your Polish poetry and shove it...BTW, skip the Soviet-hating activists. If you can't resist, send the list to Darwin...I am not interested...

Former UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson played a key role in derailing a peace deal between Moscow and Kiev, telling Ukraine to "just continue fighting," top Ukrainian MP David Arakhamia has said. Arakhamia, the head of President Vladimir Zelensky's parliamentary faction, was the chief negotiator at the botched peace talks in Istanbul, held early into the ongoing conflict.

The MP made the bombshell revelation on Friday in an interview with the Ukrainian 1+1 TV channel.

Brits are pure evil or wh*res for hire. Not sure which applies...

An interesting point I dont think is discussed enough it how Ukraine built NATO membership into this new constitution. The strangeness of this without any NATO approval to join, is without any explanation I can find. Wouldnt it have made more sense to have something about joining the EU? Even that though is an attempt to bind another party to a document that really does not have anything to do with rights that should be guaranteed by a constitution. I admit I didnt pay a whole lot of attention to Ukraine when all this was taking place. I am not aware of anything else like this anywhere else.

Meanwhile, top dem idiot Schumer is going to try to get a funding bill passed for Ukraine, Israel and now Taiwan with some border security items as early as next week. This is expected to get shot down as well. This happening while little Vlad moves air defense systems out of Kaliningrad to help in the Ukraine war. And now the ground in Ukraine is freezing to the point where tanks can move again. Will the Abrahms tanks ever be used? Will the fighter jets ever arrive? Lots of unanswered questions stacking up.

Soviets where extremely brutal and committed lots of atrocities, the greatest mass rape of humanity, greatest starvation in the most fertile lands of Europe, used 20 million people in slave labor camps and prevented people who hated their system form leaving.

Katyn is merely the most known, but there were many others, like sending tens of thousands of civilian population to Siberia and Kazakhstan or Augustów Roundup.

@PolAmKrakow

Laws are rules and guidelines decided useally by majority of it's citizens (those who are mature enough and qualified ideally), many times also made by dictators.

Constitution however are matters and rules of conduct agreed by an overwhelming majority, sometimes all.

It does not surprise me at all that an overwhelming majority of Ukraine wishes to join NATO and has a goal to achieve it.

If anything, the chances for that goal to be removed is extremely low after invasion of Ukraine. Even if Russia would demand it from being written in the constitution as part of a signed treaty. It would be meaningless and only a "power play" since most Ukrainians would still want to become members of NATO unofficially. So if it is written in the constitution or not is of little matter. It's mostly show their resolve internally and abroad, the seriousness of it.

If Russia could anything to mitigate it, would be to communicate that it would be a waste of time&effort to join NATO, guarantee it's independence and declare that Russia would protect it's independence and sovereignty from any outside forces on Kiev's request.

Instead Russia does everything to deny Ukraine legitimacy, stirs up trouble and invaded militarily and breaks agreements with Ukraine while also supporting separatists in eastern Ukraine!

Russia does not try to win the hearts and minds of Ukrainians, cause Russia is unable to win the hearts and minds of Russians. What Russia has is blind loyalty of Russians out of fear, instead of the love and devotion Russia had before 1905.

Russia needs a lot more then just nostalgia

Anything else would be deeply irrational. There's no such thing as a 'guarantee' with russia which habitually lies and goes back on its word. NATO is a strong deterrent and I can understand Ukrainians not wanting to settle for anything less.

@Mr Grunwald
Points well taken. My thinking though is that any mention of NATO without a guarantee of NATO membership is simply foolish. It is like me telling my wife that someday I am going to join the Polish army when my Polish isnt fluent, and I am too old. It doesnt make sense. Hungary, Turkey and the US, if the US is still in NATO, will not let it happen. Sweden still not confirmed to be a member and they are more than qualified to be members. Puting this NATO requirement is absolutely stupid in the event of it not happening. Then the constitutional framers look like they set Ukraine up for a major failure in one of the most important documents the country has. Not wise IMO.

@PolAmKrakow
Not wise indeed, I agree. Indeed foolish too, but as proven by Ukrainians willing to shed blood so far. Are willing to be foolish and more if grasping at decaying straws gives them a chance to be secure from Russians.

They are desperate, everybody knows it. From CEO's in U.S.A to farmers in Siberia

"Wise" and "Ukraine" do not belong in the same sentence.

The president that wrote NATO into the constitution, also renamed his political party from Bloc of Petro Poroshenko, to European Solidarity - which abbreviates to E.S., or the same acronym used for the EU. So, the "E.U." party wrote into the constitution a requirement to join NATO.

Brings to mind the term "cargo cult". Just like the Papuans that built airstrips in the jungle, hoping the white man might return with gifts, so the Ukrainians think they will join the EU and NATO faster if they just use the right incantations.

For those curious, here are two charts. The first shows Ukrainian support for joining NATO. You can see that the first time the pro-NATO crowd began to be the majority was in 2014, a year after the coup.

EU accession, on the other hand - has always been popular. This is the second chart. Looking at countries like Poland and Slovakia, Ukrainians knew that EU membership comes with trainloads of free money.

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Rich, you didn't answer my question did you?

Your comparison of Russian troops in Poland to US troops in Germany is laughable.

The Russian troops in Poland were not there to protect Poland because there was no threat.They were there to ensure that the Polish Communist government continued to take their orders from Moscow.Or else.

The US troops in Germany are there to help to protect Germany.
The German government does not take orders from Washington.

End of!

Now answer my question instead of coming up with BS.

The Soviet troops were in Poland to protect Poland from an attack by the Western powers. They didn't need 300,000 men near Legnica for anything else.

The US troops were in Germany to protect Germany from an attack by the Soviets.

Why the US troops are still in Germany is a mystery.


The Soviet troops were in Poland to prevent the US from liberating Poland and kill a million Poles in the process. See Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.

If you truly believe that then you are not the intelligent man I thought you were.


Correct!Russia has always been a genuine threat as they have proven several times recently.


Not to me!Because Russia is still a threat.

As usual, you ignore many parts of my post.
Warsaw took orders from Moscow.
Berlin do not take orders from Washington.

Any comments Rich?

And my original question has still not been answered;


So, why did you leave?

Man up and answer the question.

Ok, I'll bite!

If Soviet forces were not stationed in Poland for a forward defense against NATO, but just to make life miserable for Poles - then where did they plan to actually defend?

Maybe the USSR didn't take the threat of NATO seriously - at all - and the whole Cold War was just one big scam (perpetuated with the collusion of NATO, to keep up appearances), the end purpose of which was to allow us to place our armies in Poland?

Who cares about a global standoff between ideologies, when we have POLAND on the table! Whoever controls Poland, controls the world - as the old Chinese proverb goes.

Russia is the obvious answer.


They didn't, because it did not exist......they just wanted to ensure that their polish puppets did as they were told.

This forum has too many idiots......

Why would the USSR need 300,000 troops in Poland if not as a "forward defense" against the West? 10,000 near Warsaw would be plenty to keep their Polish collaborators in power.

I had no personal animosity toward them because they never did anyone I knew any wrong. As I said so many times here, in my entire life I never saw one Russian soldier, one Russian truck, or one Russian tank. On the contrary, I remember reading Russian books for kids, and watching their war movies. I loved them.

Today, Masha and her Bear are my granddaughter's cutest friends.

Bottom line: Germans had as much control over the US troops in Germany as Poles over the Soviet troops in Poland. As they say, tough sh*it...

Bobko is spot on here with his special kind of sarcasm:


When you rearrange that sentence to remove sarcasm, the answer is: Nobody gives a fvck.


This is how you lose credibility with the Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, and the Taliban.

Please don't insult me with "freedom and democracy" - unless you have proof that these people wanted to die in large numbers for be "free and democratic"

To prove that I am never wrong...Quoting:

Legnica played a significant political role in Europe for half a century. The town was marked on all maps. The NATO countries' intelligence services were interested in Legnica and it was a target for American missiles.

The reason was that Legnica was the home base for staff of the Northern Group of Soviet Army troops, the command of the Fourth Air Force, the 19th Communications Regiment, the 91st independent protection and supply battalion, the 137th communications battalion, the 245th helicopter squadron, the 748th repository of communications equipment and also, at one point (1984 - 1990), the High Command of the West Strategic Action Forces. The Russians even began to call Legnica "Little Moscow" because of the concentration of command units there.

Legnica was a town with limited sovereignty between 1945 and 1993. It was not fully under the authority of the Polish government. The territories in Legnica that were occupied by the Soviet Army military units were tightly protected and inaccessible to the Polish population. No properties located inside those areas showed up on any of the Polish administration's lists. They were covered by military secret.

All of THAT to prop up commies in Warsaw? Of course, not. Poland then was just a buffer state.

In hindsight, I am grateful to the Red Army for being there to prevent "freedom and democracy" Western nuts from adding Poland to their infamous list of countries they tried to "liberate" by force.

More than, that, we should done what churchill advised the americans, to use german, polish and other troops to invade the soviet union, and push back the iron curtain, before they got the bomb. Also maybe drop a nuke on them then.

Polish PF stupidity has no limits.

That "use German and Polish troops" reveals the depth of your stupidity and British criminality. Who the fvck was that pos Churchil to use anybody for his own purposes?

Poles were not disposable objects and any attack on the Soviets would mean a war in Poland again, you moron.

You and maf deserve each other - fvckig armchair generals with keyboards, so eager to send others to death...Go to Ukraine but be forewarned that this war is real and men die there by the thousands.

Last point...What the fvck is "we"?

The west ie western people, you're excluded because you're a soviet fossil.