Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

Clinical narcissists are incapable of emotional growth and display juvenile emotional reactions well into old age.... evertything has to be about them and attempts to be nice to them just make them angry.....

That would depend on whether those grandsons and grandaughters approve of what their grandfathers did when they were in Waffen SS.


?:

"Biden attacked from both sides over new Texas border wall":

bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67024003

No, but we started a war against them, in part because THEY started pretending like that was the only part of their history they cared to remember about.

Every former Soviet Republic has the right to celebrate their role in defeating fascism in Europe. Uzbeks and Kyrgyz, are fully within their right to stage parades on May 9, and talk about the sacrifices of their forefathers. Only an idiot, would deny Ukrainians the same right to claim a part of that great victory.

However, Ukrainians themselves (or rather a vocal minority within) have made it a point to abstract away from their Soviet past. Here's just a small part of what they did:

1) Started to glorify a genocidal maniac like Stepan Bandera. A guy that literally worked for the Nazis, until the Nazis decided he was no longer useful and put him in jail temporarily.

2) Cancelled May 9th as a holiday.

3) Destroyed Soviet war monuments all over the country.

4) Glorify the history of the single Nazi division made up of Ukrainians, while forgetting about the history of the other hundred plus NON NAZI divisions.

5) Blaming Russians for Holodomor (though it hit Russia and Kazakhstan just as hard), and using this to create distance between us. We're the big, bad Soviets - and they're the eternal victim. Conveniently, this is used as an excuse for why some of their people in the West so enthusiastically collaborated with the Germans in destroying Jews, Poles and Russians.

6) Criminalized the wearing of certain pro-Soviet war decorations.

I could keep going for ages. I hope you see Paulina, that it's not the Russians denying the Ukrainians their claim to WW2 fame.

Let's start to define WHO IS UKRAINIANS finally....

In a Cathoilic encyclopedia, printed in 1913, it is just a separatist Ruthenian political party in Austro-Hungarian empire that promote "own way" for Ruthenians and confronted Pro-Russian and pro-Hungarian fractions of same ethnos (later many of people who were in opposition to ukrainian party ended in Thalerhof and Terezín concentration camps).

After Lenin gave away Novorossia and Donbass to newly created ukrainian republic to get internal support of ukrainian nationalist fraction of RSDRP in internal party affairs, many people in Kharkov and Donetsk sharply opposed this decision, and even tried to reverse it, but was unable to do so. Massive "ukrainisation" campaign started, people who was unable to talk newly "standartized" ukrainian language (based on Sumy dialect that time) was fired from government positions. Many people refused to change their families to more "ukrainian" sounding variants, and some simply left newly "ukrainised" regions and move to Russia, to avoid all that $hitty brainwashing (like one of my granddads).

So, talk about some separate "ukrainian nation" in 1941 and their independent role in WWII - plain stupidity. Even now there is at least three large fractions that unable to agree with each other.

Being a Russia-hating Pole is a mental disorder with no known cure other than the passage of time. So all Russia can do is wait till they all die.

In the meantime, a question for Russia haters:

Which of the 6 points listed above do you find objectionable?

Every time you post, I see an evasive dumb Polak who can't support his idiotic claims.

So, let's try again...

In numbers, so skip that Polish poetry and metaphors, what did Ukraine gain and lose since some moron called me "a surrender boy"?

If you don't want me to barf, DO NOT include "pride" and "self-respect". Dead people can't feel either.

None of them. Apart from russian distortions they are pretty normal steps in nation building....

WWII is only a big thing for russia because they have no other source of pride.... they failed just about the entire 20th century, failure after failure after failure marked by the occasional atrocity.... and they're not even honest about WWII since they leave out the fact that they started it together with nazi Germany (who were russian allies longer than they were russian enemies) and never talk about or even acknowledge the role of lend-lease....

The fact that isolated individuals may have benefitted here and there does not remove their terrible, awful record in everything.... and only a terrible narcissist would try to portray their own slight benefit as counterweighing the millions of people they killed for no good reason.

You can find individual cases of people who, despite not being members, have benefitted from the mafia which doesn't make them any less a blood sucking blight on humanity.... much like russia.

Next question?

The USSR didn't owe anyone anything in 1939, Poland included. They did what was best for them and to keep Germans away - if only for a while.

What did Iraq do to the US to deserve the deaths and destruction? If the US can attack Iraq and Afghanistan, any country can attack any country for any reason it finds compelling.


In numbers, what did Ukraine gain and lose since some moron called me "a surrender boy"?

As I said, no poetry, please.

If that's true then no one owed the USSR anything in 1939 or afterward.


russians routinely talk about the need to kill millions of Ukrainians.... so they have millions of Ukrainian lives that would have snuffed out by genocidal maniacs from russia...

russian media matters has collected many (by no means all or even most) examples of public figures in russia speaking about the need to eliminate Ukraine and Ukrainians

watch it and get back to me:

youtube.com/watch?v=7lGwKHaD9zU&list=PLLWQyEN3YRo7bpdyPlWscpvx2O8qSu0T1

Not forgetting their economy, there is no way Ukraine was going to be allowed into the EU. Yanukovych was economically right but politically naive.

He was so crooked that he turned his voters against him. The idea of being in European rather than Soviet space was incredibly important to younger Ukrainians and his unilateral failure to follow through with his promise to move toward the EU sparked the maidan protests.

putain's idiocy has simply guaranteed that Ukraine will not be part of the russian "sphere of influence" for the foreseeable future (nb. "sphere of influence" is a primitive 19th century idea of the kind russians get a h@rd on about that doesn't matter to the modern world.

That is not what I asked for. Do you want me to repeat my question?
Or, better yet, do you want me to remind you what Russia wanted before Feb 22 and what that British a-hole Boris did?

The British wh*re told Z to go to war because the US pimps told him to.

@mafketis
I don't see Ukraine being anything but a burden on the EU and the USA. The country was and is never going to be accepted into the EU and cutting ties with its economic and cultural partners was incredibly stupid.

I trust you, maf, and I am so sad to learn that Russians, whom I always liked and respected, are so damn incompetent as genocidal maniacs and Ukrainian exterminators.

Read this to share my deep disappointment...

Quoting:

21 November 2023

At least 10,000 civilians, including more than 560 children, have been killed and over 18,500 have been injured since Russia launched its full-scale armed attack against Ukraine on 24 February 2022, the United Nations Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine (HRMMU) said today.

Only 10,000? WTF? How many civilians died in Iraq? 300,000? Now, that's impressive...

Why?????

What is to like or respect about Russians?

Are there any open border crossings between russia and Ukraine? I'm just asking because the Polish border crossings with Ukraine are currently blocked by trucks.

@Alien
All official crossings are closed but cross border movement still happens, It is possible to cross between the occupied parts of Ukraine and Russia but these are more regulated than before.

I have no reason to dislike them or to disrespect them.

How about decades of oppression?Sending my family and many others to Siberian Labour camps?Invading Poland,Czechoslovakia,Hungary and Ukraine and others?

Even if that was only "partly" a reason to start a war against Ukraine and kill people, you are F*CKING PSYCHOS.


Um, sorry, Bobko, but, no, that's not the impression I'm getting when I recall discussions with RuSSians and their comments. RuSSians write as if Ukrainians in the West of Ukraine or just Ukrainians who view themselves as Ukrainians and are Ukrainian patriots were/are some kind of "genetical Nazis", all of them were always in UPA murdering Poles, Jews, etc. and the only people fighting against Nazis in the Soviet Army were "Russians" from the East of Ukraine.



And you don't know and don't understand why?

OK, I have a homework for you then - an exercise in empathy and historical knowledge test:

1. During communist times the end of WWII was celebrated on May 9th in the Polish People's Republic. Nowadays it's celebrated in Poland on May 8th. Why?

2. When a certain high building was built in Warsaw during communist times Poles came up with a slogan paraphrasing a fragment of the Polish national anthem: "What the foreign force has given to us, we shall dismantle at night." It wasn't dismantled, it's still standing, but there are people who say that it should be torn down. Why do they think that? And why the inscription "Stalin" was removed from that building? Do you know which building I'm talking about and why it's so controversial?

3. What Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Warsaw had in common with the building mentioned above in point 2?

Hmm, I think I'm starting to see you as nothing more than a burden on humanity... :) 🤔


What "economic and cultural partners" are you talking about?

@Paulina
That is an odd reply.

Do you think Ukraine brings enough to the table that will encourage all EU countries to support entry?
I don't think so.

The economic and cultural ties they had with Russia, Central Asia and beyond.

Not for me :)


Yes.


Wow, I see some kind of detachment from reality here... Wouldn't you say that it was RuSSia that cut all ties with Ukraine by... INVADING this country and taking its lands??? o_O


How did Ukraine "cut ties" with "Central Asia and beyond"? What are you talking about?

@Paulina
Its clear that Ukraine severed economic ties with Russia and Central Asia in 2014. Their economy was integrated with those partners. There is no way that Ukraine could do that and meet the standards required to be accepted as an EU state.

He seems to actually be in command of at least some of the important facts.

Russia, Belarus, Armenia, and several Central Asian states are part of what's called the Customs Union.

It's Russia's answer to other free trade zones - especially the EU. The discussion of admitting us to the EU was never seriously entertained, while trading with the EU in anything but raw commodities is incredibly one-sided due to the near impossibility of complying with the EU's ever shifting technical certification framework. The only country that has been able to twist the EU's arms on trade is America, and even then with some mixed success.

We really, really, really wanted Ukraine to join. We gave their retail and industrial consumers gas at knockdown prices, closed our eyes to their theft of gas intended for transit, and guaranteed a substantial part of their loans.

We drew up massive plans on how we would reintegrate our military industrial complex, and this included reviving the Ukrainian shipbuilding and space industries.

The largest cellular operator, the second largest bank, and the largest retail chain were all built on Russian investment capital. Russia was by far the largest investor into Ukraine. Russia was by far Ukraine's largest trade partner.

Had it joined the Customs Union, Ukraine could have acted as an all-important bridge between a 200M+ sized Customs Union and a 450M sized EU. It could have made our Eurasian Customs Union into something resembling more a real Union, than a club where Russia dominates over much smaller countries in every measure. Instead it is a cratered sh!thole now, that nobody is interested in.

Nobody in my family felt oppressed or invaded by the Soviets. As I already said so many times, I never saw any Russian soldiers, military trucks, or tanks once WW2 was really over.

Nobody in my family belonged to the communist party. We were never forced or even asked to participate in the May 1 parades. There was no indoctrination of any kind in the high school. I was going to church every Sunday from when I was 8 til I decided I had enough. I was able to buy New York Herald Tribune in Warsaw without any problems.

The USSR used a small area in Poland to station 300,000 troops to offset the US Army in West Germany. That's it. No invasion, No occupation. No exterminations or mass executions.

So why specifically should I hate Russians?

Because you were told to do so. It is free world, after all. ;)

PS: You were too young to have your own opinion about some period of time, so someone who was even not planned in that period will be dictate you what you should think about it. ;)

No sh1t!!! LOL o_O 🤦

Barney, I'm really starting to wonder what the hell is wrong with you... Do you have RuSSian roots by any chance or are you one of those brain-dead Western leftists blindly in love with communism, the Soviet Union, etc? 🤔


Why not?


Yes, it's just the interpretation and understanding of those important facts seems to be seriously lacking in his case.


Well, it looks like Ukraine really, really, really didn't want to join the RuSSian club and instead it really, really, really badly wants to join the EU. And Poles understand that very, very, very, and I mean - VERY, very well.

It was mainly dislike for russians, not hate. russians were not very attractive as people, russian technology was coarse and I was not interested in ballet or classical music. I preferred Deep Purple and Iron Maiden.

Newsflash: You are not, in fact, royalty and no one here is under any obligation to answer your idiotic, disingenuous questions. If you don't like that, then lumping it is an acceptable alternative.


russians are not very attractive as a people.... they might be more acceptable with some humility but they think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread and the fact that the world disagrees sets many of them in a permanent state of seeting rage.... (it's the collective narcissistic wound)

listening to them rage at each other and gloat about others' misery on russian state tv (hat tip: russia media) makes it seem like the least attractive culture in the world

there are some cultural accomplishments but most of those happened long ago and most of those responsible... did not have happy lives as russians....

at present it produces no culture that the world wants (just like almost all of the 20th century).

the information dictatorship pursued by the current government is an exacerbating factor.