Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 8

@Velund
Your take on why no negotiations without sources to back it up is not contributing to the discussion. Its just more Russian propaganda. There wont be a capitulation and you know it. Putin knows it. If Ukraine cannot look good coming out of the war, Russia cannot look good. Russia will need another million men to hold what they have now if the US gives more weapons to Ukraine. Russia will never be able to occupy all of Ukraine and it wont take all of Ukraine. So, it is as beneficial for Russia as it is Ukraine to negotiate. Ukraine will never be part of NATO, so thats an easy piece to give to Russia anyway. Russia can demilitarize CDL. Ukraine can join EU and remain neutral with EU security guarantees. Ukraine will have immediate elections with oversight, and we all know Z will be voted out. Simple solutions that keep a lot more people from dying when its not needed.

@mafketis
Whats up with that border? Whats up is no new money for Ukraine. Thats whats up. And until sleepy Joe makes a reasonable deal to stop things at the border, Ukraine is fvcked. No new money for Israel either. See that is negotiating from a position of strength, not the globalist position of socialism. What is also up, is Biden now offering border changes and changes to the asylum sekers program. So, sleepy Joe, Ukraines hero, is now having to take it from rational thinking republicans that want the best for Americans.

Ok, it will take more time, and less population remains there as a result. But under no circumstances it will be allowed to exist for some regime that can be pumped with money and weapons and thrown to Russia again. There was once attempt to finish banderite nazi ideology after WWII, but wife of Khruschev used their influence to allow for amnesty for banderites. That was huge mistake, it will be not repeated.


There is nobody who is able to negotiate and then keep their word. So, ukraine is not regarded as a negotiation partner anymore. Period.


Putin already let everyone know that nobody is planned to occupy ukraine, it will be annexation of former Russian lands back to Russia. Lands that was in another countries before Yalta accords can either return to Poland, Hungary and Romania, either enter EU as new ukraine. The rest will return to Russia, and there never be any chances to make a ulcer in the body of Russia using brainwashed part of southern Russians as cannon fodder.

Putin is too shitscared to even touch Latvia and Estonia which are under NATO protective umbrella. If not for the likes of Merkel, Ukraine could have also enjoyed this umbrella and Russia could only seethe about it.

I am against the West sending in ground troops, but it isn't actually necessary. Once the West attains complete air superiority, which they would in a relatively short time scale, and heavily degrades Russian indirect fire capabilities, the Ukrainian troops already on the ground will be able to advance at a good pace with relatively low casualties.

Not that Russia will fight for every bit of land. Russia will capitulate and withdraw their troops once they see the writing on the wall and it becomes clear the West is quite serious. I am deeply ashamed that this was not the Western, and particularly the American, response when Russia launched the 2022 invasion. A whole lot of Ukrainian lives would have been saved if we had taken the correct course of action and immediately bombed the f*uck out of all invading Russian troops.

@Velund
I once thought you a sumewhat intelligent man. Your comments prove otherwise. Ukraine will exist, and it will be part of EU. Russia wanted total occupation and to instill their own puppet. Its why they tried to invade Kiev. They lost in Kiev, and will never get Kiev. Russia gave sevurity guarantees to Ukraine for giving up its nukes, and who cant be trusted? Putin is a thug, not a smart leader. It is why the whole country is based on lies and thuggary.

He designated 14B for "border security". As we know so very well from the "what is is" weasel, this sob means more border guards to process more foreign scum faster and safer as they cross that creek. In other words, this pos means migrant security, not ours.

First, EU must survive next 5-10 years. ;)

The USSR survived for 70 so the EU may, too.

The USSR at the end of course was greatly affected by the leader's senile marasmus, but that's not what finished it. ;) I am watching with bated breath the development of the situation in the USA and find more and more analogies. ;)

I do, too, but I am not surprised...Like humans and animals, societies do get cancer and die or at least need radical surgery. The more democratic, the faster the process as voters discover they can vote for their benefits and pass the bill onto their kids - the US model.

Slightly different sequence. Marasmatic leaders found that they can stay at power promising more and more benefits to electorate. And once electorate start to understand that something goes really wrong - electorate is diluted with people who lived for few dollars a week for all previous life and pretty happy with those what still remains from real benefits. ;)

Polish farmers have come to an agreement and have taken down their blockades at the Ukranian border.
In other old news......in a startling revelation, a leaked email from a whistleblower within Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB) has unveiled shocking plans that suggest Russia was considering an attack on Japan before the Ukraine conflict unfolded.

There should be so many of them by now....


spiegel.de/ausland/russland-frauen-eingezogener-soldaten-protestieren-offenbar-an-friedhoefen-a-ddec8abf-691b-4115-8e6d-0feb125b3848

Is there still dissatisfaction expressed in Russia about the war against Ukraine? Wives of mobilized soldiers have reportedly publicly protested against their husbands' deployment. Pictures of the action are circulating online.

t.me/sotaproject/71925

...

Among other things, the women placed red carnations on the eternal fire on the Field of Mars in Saint Petersburg, next to which a banner "Women for Peace" could be seen. In Moscow , relatives protested in front of the General Staff building. They put up posters demanding that their husbands be brought back from the front.

Putin initially promised not to involve ordinary citizens in the war. In the fall of 2022, after a series of defeats by his army in Ukraine, he officially drafted around 300,000 men. To this day, many of them are at the front.

....

These "way home" fake ones have become active again. They drove their sect to rally under state institutions.

Once again, we see the political technologies of the Bolotnaya Square riots. Only then there were white ribbons (remember, similar to condoms?), and now there are white handkerchiefs. A symbol of betrayal of their country, which the wives of the mobilized could not have thought of themselves.

The fact that all this was inspired from abroad is not hidden by the "way home".

So, today this project reported that some "independent media" made a movie about their treacherous movement. Go to the link, and there - oh, Radio Liberty. Which is funded directly from the US budget. Independent media, yeah...

What kind of dumb people are all these things designed for - made-up symbols, movies at the expense of American taxpayers by foreign political technologists?

If earlier I thought it was necessary to explain, to pity ordinary sectarians - then after such caming-out the situation has changed. Those who are unable to understand that they are working for Russia's enemies and committing treason must be brought to their senses according to the law and punished to the fullest extent of the law.

You said it better...

The best national anthem ever composed...
Did I mention that I love Russia and hope to be on that train from Moscow to St. Petersburg one day soon?

There's nothing treasonous about wives protesting against their husbands being sent to a war of aggression which was started by their own country. RuSSia isn't defending itself against a foreign invasion and so RuSSian soldiers aren't defending their country. They are invading another country.

That's one thing. Another thing - you're not being objective, as usual. Were Ukrainian wives who were protesting "working for Ukraine's enemies"? I bet that you'll say that they weren't and that they had every reason and right to protest lol 🤦


I will remind you those words when I see you claiming again that you're not pro-RuSSian and that you just care about the US, liar.


Such a pity you will never make that trip lol

It is. In the eyes of Moscovites if you have three people protesting some Russian gov policies they are paid, organized, and, or misled by the CIA, alternatively by the British.

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I think J...ty Rysiu should move over there, I can't stand idiots praising Russia all the time while living from all places in the US.

It is as dumb as a crawfish praising chowder and saying that it is much better for several reasons than the ocean.
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You are putting too much credence on some people protesting they are being screwed up by the Moscow regime. Nothing will come of it...
After all in Germany seems that German farmers are terrorists and the enemy of the people (those in charge).
Told you BB your German 'liberal' gov is only all good fascist in disguise hiding behind the 'Europen' label. Check it out,

Meanwhile, in the US, Congress is set to return and the temporary spending bill to fund the government will be reduced in less than two weeks, and the balance will be eliminated on February 2, 2024. This means that sleepy Joe and the leftist facists will either have to make a deal on the border security, or the government will shut down. There will be no more money for Ukraine until the border issues are dealt with. With a record 250K illegal immigrants crossing into the US last month, this is going to be a huge issue in the elections in November.

And in the EU, people in Brussels are trying to find a way around Turkey's veto of aid to Ukraine. 55 billion would get Ukraine to about the end of March. But what weapons can be bought and from who with that money? How quickly can they get to Ukraine? Its not just money Ukraine is running out of. Missiles and ammunition are being rationed now, so something has to give.

Turkey is not in the EU

As for the rest of the Sleepy Joe stuff do you think the other 95 percent of the world's population are going to let a few whackjob congressmen in Alabama pull their strings or will they just make their own new arrangements?

what's the deal the republicans want, because everything I see is them saying 'no' and not actually proposing anything....


That's what we all want....

@cms neuf
Sorry, I was reading an article abouot Turkey earlier. I meant Hungary. And if you think the republican held Congress GAF about what the world thinks, before taking into account what the majority of US citizens think, then you dont understand how the US works. A "whackjob" is someone who wants to protect American citizens first, when that is their sworn oath to do so? Hate to know your definition of a clear thinking human being in that case.

@mafketis
If you stopped getting new from exclusively left wing media, you would know that the republicans proposed funding for the boarder to be secured, and changes to assylum application processing. Really quite reasonable packages. What you dont see is why sleepy Joe doesnt want to sign on to the deal. In States like Pennsylvania now, anyone getting a drivers license is registered to vote automatically. In any State, you do not have to be a citizen to get a drivers license. So, thousands of non citizens will be registered to vote in PA and other states. This will absolutely happen because the government does not tell you this voter registration is taking place, it is automatic unless you know about it and OPT OUT. Not opt in, which would make illegal immigrants guilty of a crime, but not knowing they should opt out, gives them the ability to vote and not know they are commiting a crime.

Once aqgain though, everyone wants the US money and weapons. They want the US to keep protecting them and everyone else at the expense of US citizens. With the money already given to Ukraine, a new home could have been built for every homeless person in the US and eliminated the homeless crisis. And people think this shouldnt be the priority? WTF are you people on?

@PolAmKrakow
Sounds very much like dilluting citizen rights, which is understandable since many businessmen dilute their products with water to make it more cheaply produced and produce "more" while dilluting the dollar by printing too much too I guess?

Got to be inclusive you know! Dollars for everybody!

No, I think you shouldn't quit paddling in the middle of the stream. Once you start to feed Ukraine with weapons and aid, you should continue not just leave them hanging. Also, F homeless people in the US they are in the land of the brave and the free and if they are losers they should go to charities not expect the federal gov to feed them and hold their hand.

Also, who is making a really big buck on Ukrainie, American firms that produce those munitions?
Also, The US had been acting as a global empire and shouldn't just leave its eastern flank hanging, which goes against our geopolitical rules...

Also, the fact that the American dollar is the world currency gives the US firms and businesses huge feedback (making a big buck on that) so, someone in the US makes a big profit on all that, you don't or let's say the majority of the US citizens are taken for a ride, that is the US internal problem that few dollars here and there doesn't change the big picture.

The fact that the Democrats are woke and go crazy to stay in power that Republicans are just weak in their ideological response and that both groups see Trump (wild card) as the threat, shouldn't reflect on current foreign issues. Where is a so-called deep state where you need it? lol!

If there is plenty of money sent to foreign countries to be cut down and millions of dollars spent by all agencies of the US government that support LGBT, same-sex 'marriages' and all that goes with it. Billions could be saved - somehow Republicans allegedly conservatives do not talk about it.

Why do they talk about aid to Ukraine? Because it is unpopular across the board among The US citizenry, you might vote Democrats or you might vote Republicans but sure like heel you don't get why 'we' should pay (our taxes should go) some Ukrainian stupid war.

Hence it is in a public debate because Rebs aims to stir sentiments in their favor in oncoming elections.

( Democrats tactic you covered well I think).

@Ironside
You are not an American who is being forced to pay for this war. When you pay for something, and then the person you paid doesnt do what they are told, you are no longer obligated to keep paying. You say F the homeless people in one sentence and that they shouldnt have their hands held but you want Ukraines hand held? You realize that more than 90% of homeless in the US have severe psychiatric issues, or are veterans with PTSD right? Cant just say fvck them. They should come before any Ukraine person, period.

Thats right, Blackrock is making a ton of money on weapons and they will on reconstruction. Did you know that Ukraine is selling its farm land to US corporations like Monsanto and Blackrock? And thats exactly why this war should be stopped. Fvck Blackrock and the rest of them.

Every other country in the EU puts their own country first, yet the US shouldnt? Thats some really fvcked up thinking.

What do you mean by Eastern flank? Ukraine is not in any alliance or agreement to provide protection with the US or NATO. We have no binding responsibility toward them.

Just curious, what this corporations will get if Russia will annex this territories. ;)

Who said I'm not? I'm not Americanborn but that is not what we are talking about here.
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Be it the EU be it Poland be it the US we are all paying into this war. The US taxpayers are not an exception, the exception is the fact that as we speak the US factories either government-owned ordinance production facilities or private companies increased production of munition sixfold and invested a lot of money, an amount unsees from the time of WWII into its modernization (about 1 billion dollars).

As I see it as beneficial, brings back production to the US with workplaces.
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You are investing, you are investing into the security of the eastern NATO border which is to say of the reach of the American Empire. so you wouldn't lose here or you won't have to pay in the future tenfold and with American blood.

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Let's make it less emotional and based on facts, shall we? There are some homeless that are veterans, but it only means that someone has let them down, there is a system in place that should not allow for that to happen.

That there is a massive problem with loons of all kinds roaming the streets and that large chunk of them is homeless, hello, that old news, legislation seems not to take it seriously. That is not Ukraine's fault, nor can be solved by throwing money on the problem.

Another big chunk of the homeless is either losers, petty criminals, or all kinds of drifters who are exercising their freedom to pursue happiness the way they see fit.

Also, I agree - F all those greedy corporations, however making sure that Russia will have its ass kicked into the middle ages where they belong is in the long-term interest of the US and all Americans. That is my point.

I get why people do not see it. Well, I'm sorry to say it but I must - they have it wrong.
I don't like Ukrainians and I don't think much about their state, I think that Lwow should belong to Poland and that their territory is so big because they were a part of the Soviet Union not because it is all Ukrainian land. Still, geopolitical issues and the balance of power in this part of the world force us all to deal with what is on the table.

No. The US should put every other country first and the US last. This is what the mother fvckers in DC do.
Here, on this forum, Poland, God's best project ever, must be the firstest.

To secure the Eastern part of NATO, bringing Ukraine into the fold or as a buffer state between NATO and Russia is an obvious move.

All of these companies are privately owned or publicly held stock corporations. None are owned by the government. Sure its a benefit for stock holders, the largest of which again is Blackrock.


The US is not investing in Ukraine, the US is investing in its MIC, and keeping information on the Bidens from becoming more public. There is zero benefit for US citizens in spending on Ukraine. The only benefit again is corporations.


Based on facts? Ok. The fact is simple. US citizens, regardless of why they are homeless or poor should come before Ukraine. There is no other discussion point beyond that absolute fact.

Ukraine did not do as they were told in the counter offensive. Had they done as they were told, the war would likely be in a different position, or at least the US would not have this excuse to deny funding. Ukraine is not in NATO, never will be. If they get in the EU, then they are an EU problem not a US problem. Novi does make some good points about NATO and Putin's objections to being surrounded. While Vlad brings $hit on himself, he does have a point. Republicans have made reasonable demands on border security. The real question is why is Biden forcing Israel and Ukraine funding together with border security? It is Biden doing it, not congress. I want Ukraine to win, but not at the expense of regular US citizens and there comes a time when you realize that the money being spent is just more going into what has already proven to be an investment with no geat return.

@Bobko
The only reason the US continues to fund this bull$hit is because of those corporate interests. Its not about freedom and democracy, its about making good on investment plans.