Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 9

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Yes, for example, Poles and Germans going to Catholic mass together.

Then that's his individual identity, not that every German with roots elsewhere takes extended holidays abroad. And there are plenty of other Germans who spend a at least a month every year on the Costa del Sol. Are they less German? And if he does go to Istanbul or Torremolinos, so what? He's still as German as Scholtz if that is how he feels.


Of course; it's how you feel and who you are that matter. Boris Johnson was born in New York, has ancestry from all over the place but is still completely British. That politician where you are, Petra Kelly, has ancestry from America but is still completely German.

Ancestry only plays a part of you feel it does. And of course cultures evolve with time.

Agreed, that definitely!

There is a great test: Which football team do you cheer for during a national match, huh? :)

I would fail. because I don't care about football teams.

Norman Tebbit's famous cricket test.

Nonsense really. Teams can be local, countrywide, whatever. And being pleased when the team from a country your granny came from win doesn't define your identity.

A close friend is 100% French and cheers the France team. He has a Polish granny and is pleased when Poland win. Who he supports when they play together doesn't however define his identity.


Many millions don't and even those who do dislike the trashy sectarianism of, say, the Glasgow teams.

.....but you care for Poland's side in a war, even from far away, don't you....

Your cultural identity was never in doubt, Iron!


Well....he has to decide for one side, which is it?

I find that cricket/football test usable....you can see it in Berlin, when Germany plays Turkey and lotsa Germans around cheer for the turkish team...they have the german ID, most are born here etc....do they identify as Germans, surely not! That cheering another "Home"-Team is only a symptom, not more but surely not less!

You're confusing having strong feelings about the place your family left with personal identity.

You can like both the village your grandpa came from and the city you were raised in.


Does he?

And does something as banal as sport define everyone?

"liking" isn't an identity....


He has an identity, hasn't he?

Or is he one of this curious group of "world citizens" with declaredly no identity at all? Well....most don't feel that way, quite the contrary, the feeling of "Heimat" is strong and stays that way, no matter where they live

Who said it was?

We're looking at analogies.

Is a German whose family once lived elsewhere less German than a German whose family didn't?

As a symbol, a rare possibility to "show your flag" in a globalized world, definitely...


Does he cheer for the german team? In football, or war, or whatever?

It's not so complicated, and every traveler looking inside can answer that question...

Sport as a symbol? Only for some. Many millions of others couldn't name the manager of the national team in their country, much less know how they did in the.World Cup.


Maybe he doesn't like sport.


And is he a traveller if the last person who travelled in his family did so two generations ago?

....it's not a matter of quality...not really!

Even if you don't know the manager, and even if they play so embarassingly bad that you only want to change the channel...you wouldn't cheer for the adversary's home-team, never!

(Only if your team left the competition because of their lack of quality....then your next favourite country gets cheered, that are the rules:)


That is the question only he can answer....does he cheer for the team of the country he is living in? Waves its flag, even if the team is so so so bad and loses all the time?

Why would they? Most people have no idea which team
Is playing when. And who's tha adversary? There are plenty of English people of Scottish descent who would be delighted if Scotland won against England. Does that make them less English?

Anyway, sentiment/nostalgia hardly define identity.
.
The cricket (or football) 'test' is rather silly.

Is a German whose family once lived elsewhere less German than a German whose family didn't

To complicate things further some people are oikophobes.

Depends whose team they are cheering, doesn't it....and you are repeating the same question, as if the current living place is for you the deciding factor for their cultural identity?


What else does?

Isn't identity alot about feelings?

Do you think you get a "Heimat" with an ID card or a job in another country?

Football?

Trivial for most people.


Current or sole? What defines someone's nationality?

Is a German whose family once lived elsewhere less German than a German whose family didn't

Now that is clear, the ID card does....

A nationality you can change....many people have even several...the big difference to identity!


Erm....look above, I answered that already!

That's the catch. many/most don't feel that way. I remember a few years ago an Erasmus student who'd lived in Germany.... if not since birth then very close to it (IIRC he had some ancestry from Latin America which was visible). Was a German citizen, German was his first language. He dressed like a German and had German body language. And got upset when I called him German. He might be a German citizen but he didn't consider himself German.

I think that attitude is a lot more common in Germany than most people realize....

Not really.

Was Gunther Schabowsky less German than Erich Honecker?


In which case you seem to agree with me all along; that identity is how someone feels.

Of course I did agree with you on that!

That's why I wonder about your continous questioning about that living place....and that is a question only these people can answer, not me!

But just living in a certain place for a certain time doesn't automatically defines your identity....that's a fact, that's all.

Which is my whole point.

I was surprised that you questioned it in the first place.

Worth remembering that it's possible to be completely one nationality while at the same time being partly (or completely) another. Human beings aren't pie charts.

Okay....maybe that was a misunderstanding....or you just don't like football, heh:)

'night all

*takes helmet*

And then a war breaks out. Which side are you going to join? Side A or Side B?

Normal person: The side where my kids and I live.

A stateless weasel: I am against wars!

Me too. Almost absolutely indifferent to every word ending with ...ball and any sort of hockeys. ;)

As a former refugee, it's surprising he has to ask.

Then again, it's just his usual wiejski maądrala stuff.

Breaking The Myth of Russian "Human Wave" Attacks

What do Western presstitutes and women have in common?

They lie all the time...

This is very depressing. They our are neighbours for f*cks sake!

After two years of war, only 52 percent of Poles agree to accepting refugees from Ukraine . This is definitely less than at the beginning of the aggression, when over 72 percent of us were favorable to it. It is also less than last year, when support was 67 percent. Our involvement in helping Ukraine is also decreasing. In February 2022, only 17 percent of Poles declared that they did not intend to support Ukrainians, in 2023 it was already about 34 percent of respondents. According to the latest study - over 41 percent of respondents it no longer intends to get involved in aid initiatives related to supporting Ukrainians," we read in the study.

forsal.pl/gospodarka/aktualnosci/artykuly/9441346,zmniejsza-sie-poparcie-polakow-dla-uchodzcow-z-ukrainy-badanie.html

Unless there has been a wave of Ukri crime or thousands of BMW and Mercedes with Ukri plates swarming Poland, my faith in Polish character and altruism has been severely diminished. :(

@amiga500
I think there is a lot contributing to these feelings. The economy in Poland while growing slowly is not benefiting everyone as much as it could or as equally. Inflation has hurt a lot of people, and continued high interest rates are stressing people financially and emaotionally. I know personally, I am very tied of being approached every day from people asking for money for Ukraine, and having to listen to the Ukraine anthem any time I walk through Rynek. There is a "war fatigue" that has set in here in Krakow anyway. There are also a lot of very wealthy Ukraine people here driving very nice cars and SUV's that most Poles cannot afford to buy. I think that brings up a lot of questions in peoples minds. Not to mention a very large number of men of fighting age who are here.

I think people in general want to help Ukraine, but they also want to help themselves, and their families come first. Like US funding for the Ukraine military, I think Poles are asking themselves how much more are they required to give?

Hey, amiga find yourself another dreamland that will let you escape your dreary reality.