Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 9

These polls are meaningless.

If you ask people:

1) "Do you support the statement that a lasting peace can only be achieved through Ukraine reclaiming its 1991 borders?" - then 90%+ would say "Yes."

2) "Would you be willing to lose your son or husband for these 1991 borders?" - then probably that number goes down from 90% to less than 10%.

In the abstract, while sitting in their kitchens or in front of their televisions - Ukrainians support the continued prosecution of this war.

When confronted with concrete demands on their family - they suddenly are much less enthusiastic. It becomes a fundamental question of what do you love more - your country or your family.

In polling, this is called social desirability. An example would be asking people if they plan to vote. Since voting is seen as virtuous, most people are likely to respond "yes", even if they have no intention of voting.

This same dynamic applies with stronger force to the question of whether or not you support continuing the war until Ukraine reaches its 1991 borders. People are afraid to say "No", since they know it's viewed as the less socially desirable answer.

The only way to go from "expected" to "revealed" polling results, is to ask people several questions from different angles.

If Russia would be attacked and invaded by an foreign army....would you stand and fight? Or would you give up everything to them and advise your compatriots to wave the white flag, telling them that some land isn't worth it?

Serious question also for you, Bobko!

Update....just in:


morgenpost.de/politik/article241882012/Ukraine-EU-Staaten-einigen-sich-auf-Finanzierung-von-Waffen.html

After months of negotiations, the EU states have agreed that there should be continued joint financing of military equipment for Ukraine. According to the agreement reached in Brussels on Wednesday, the move is intended to guarantee the supply of weapons , ammunition and other goods worth at least five billion euros, according to the current Belgian EU Council Presidency and diplomats.

Specifically, it is planned to provide the European Peace Facility (EFF) with additional funds. This financing instrument can be used to reimburse EU member states for military support to Ukraine attacked by Russia and to pay for joint orders....

....and in other news, Scholz stays by his "Nein" to Taurus for Ukraine....some are calling him already the "Chamberlain" of our times...

This depends on many things.

1) What are the goals of the invaders?
2) Do I stand by my government or do I find it odious?
3) How long has the war continued?
4) What losses have been sustained to date?
5) What is the situation with supplies?
6) How would commanders and the wider military bureaucratic machine treat me?

If I understood that my death would not move the needle by even one millimeter, that my government is criminal, that my commanders treat me like a dog, that I don't have the necessary means to defend myself, and that finally - the Russians will likely not kill me even if they win (no gas chambers after all)... then I would probably not fight.

This battle is not existential for the Ukrainians, as some of you try to paint it here. It's not even existential, on the plane of "surviving as a nation". In the end - they'll be fine.

We tried to erase them earlier through centuries of some pretty hardcore Russification - centuries where they were inside our state - and look, they're still around.

So when some Maf says "Russians like killing Ukrainians", "genocide of the Ukrainian nation", "the fate of the world is at stake", bla bla bla... I would not take it seriously.

It's actually quite a big question, who likes killing who, who is genociding whom, and what is in fact at stake.

Now that reminds me abit about the "Russian Liberation Army"....I wonder how the modern Russians look at Vlasov and his men fighting with the Germans against Stalin now....


I dunno about that.....a planned and successful take of a capital is the utmost proof of total subjugation....no victorious leader is giving that away if not for a mighty pound of flesh aka reward....that could become existential quite quickly, with the big question: Will they ever leave again?

Funny you were the same Russian hater 2 years ago. Shall I remind you of your old posts in which you virtually spat on Russians and their culture??? Even I wasn`t as radical as you. Bobko and other imperial Russians had a big problem with you..... :):):)

Have you been brainwashed by Big Brother and you love Russia now???? hahahaha

@Bratwurst Boy
Really? FO. I have never blamed anyone but Russia for invading. I blame Ukraine for wasting opportunity and resources for bull$hit agendas. I blame Z for not negotiating, Z is not Ukraine, he is simply the idiot in charge.

@jon357
Anyone who thought Russia was the second best military in the world was retarded. The Taliban were better, and Wagner was better. Russia had more men to die. Not only do I know better, but the Ukraine people voicing their want for a peace deal know better. US congress and military knows better. Z wasted thousands of lives to lose a military position that was not critical. And no one disputes that. All your wishful thinking isnt going to change the facts on the ground.

@Pawian
I still want Russia to lose. I still hate Russia because I was raised to. But I am a realist. I dont want people to die for nothing. I am not a cheerleading idiot following the leftist narrative. Dont like the truth? Watch MSNBC.

Well.....I guess....as a country in a war you could cut them some slack....we are not used to wars in Europe anymore, that will change though!

The Americans took the Russian warning seriously and are preparing to withdraw. That's why they kicked out Victoria Nuland. Her "resignation" was announced right after RT published that video with German generals about the shipment of Taurus, despite the opposition of Olaf Scholz. Apparently, Nuland led a parallel government and put pressure on European authorities and made parallel alliances there behind the backs of legally elected government representatives. Nuland is the main architect of the Ukrainian tragedy, starting with the coup itself in 2014. No one was as fanatically devoted to the "Ukrainian cause" as she was. While the Americans retreat, European "leaders" escalate with rhetoric of impotent rage. That anger is directed much more against the US than Russia. The Americans pushed them all the time into a war with Russia, caused enormous damage to their economies, only to suddenly start jumping off the sinking ship. The question is how much Scholz acted independently when he exposed British and French "experts" in Ukraine two weeks ago, after which the former British defense minister, Ben Wallace, called him "the wrong man, in the wrong place at the wrong time." And this leaked conversation of German generals, who confirm it, dealt another blow to the Western alliance. There is a possibility that the video was passed on to the Russians by the Americans, supporting Scholz and his position against the shipment of Taurus, and exposing the conspiracy of a group of generals against the legally elected, civilian government to which they are subordinate. Undoubtedly, in the background of everything was Nuland, who became too much of a burden for Biden in the year of the presidential elections and who became so strong that she threatens an escalation that could quickly get out of control.

Good. So don`t use the term Russian haters coz it introduces confusion. :):):)


Neither me, but as long as Ukrainians don`t want to negotiate, we are obliged to offer them help.


What is it????? :):):)


Relax, nobody accuses you of it... :):):) I only started suspecting you are not a too reliable person after such major changes of your opinions....... :):):)

An increasing number of analysts predict the collapse of Ukrainian forces in May or during the summer. The war should be over by autumn at the latest, depending on how far the Russians want to go. I think it is certain that they will also take Kharkov and Odessa. Otherwise, only the territory that was declared Russian in September 2022. But if the West escalates further, they will certainly enter Kiev, which they can take whenever they want, even with great sacrifices if necessary. It is enough just to look at where Kiev is located. The longer the war lasts, the smaller Ukraine becomes. The goal of the Americans was not a Ukrainian victory. It is clear to everyone that it is an impossible mission. The goal was the weakening of Russia, its economic collapse and a general uprising against Putin's rule, thus a classic regime change operation in a combination of sanctions and a new "Afghan scenario" for the Russians. Today we clearly see that they achieved the exact opposite. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

the judeo-masonic era is ending.? 🙄
well maybe its the beginning of the end, it will take longer than anyone here will be alive, but as long as it ends.. 🙄

Vladimir Putin - The Western elites must understand that the vampire ball is ending

He is just a revanchist, he wants the old times back....like the commies of old.....

Basically yes; he wants the power available to him through an authoritarian regime however he wants the cash for himself and his cronies.


No such thing.

@Bratwurst Boy
In a war, no one gets any slack. Live or die is a no slack situation. Black or white. It really is that simple. This is not a game of chess pieces, we are playing with real lives in this game. Z is incompetent. Being brave was great for the first year. Accomplishing nothing in the last year wipes all that out. Time to negotiate peace.

@pawian
I hate Russia and what it stands for. I hate what the USSR was and what it is becoming. That does not mean I hate all Russians. I dont trust all Russians, but I know some I dont hate. That said, Ukraine is at worst a cousin of Russia, and more realisticaly a step sibling. Corrupt, and dirty to the core. My opinions only change when evidence obtained from multiple sources indicates I have no choice but to change my opinion. And if people just look at facts, keeping emotions out, it is clear that Ukraine has done all it can do unless it mobilizes a half million or more men and gets 100 billion from the US.

Now, to point out how important the US is, the EU just approve 5 Billion in military aid for Ukraine. A fvcking measly 5 billion. This is spitting in the face of every American tax payer. And the EU expects the US to fund this bull$hit after this? If Joe Biden had any balls he would call the EU and tell them to FO.

Yes, yes and yes.
However, the EU consists of 27 countries which speak different languages and have different cultures while the US is just one. Simple.


Not after the US involvement in European matters for over 100 years now. Involvement which made the US a superpower. Don`t forget about it. :) :):):)

Really! That's your estimation of Ukraine's success?

Being out of the blue attacked by one of the biggest armies in the world, which came fully prepared.....Putin expected to win Kiev in weeks, if not days!

...When Vladimir Putin launched the full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, he was expecting a quick and decisive victory that would cement his place in Russian history and reverse the verdict of 1991 by extinguishing Ukrainian independence once and for all. Instead, the year draws to a close with his army demoralized by successive defeats and Russia's reputation as a military superpower in tatters.......

atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/2022-review-why-has-vladimir-putins-ukraine-invasion-gone-so-badly-wrong/

In the history books it won't be Russia being glorified for it's military strength anymore, but the Ukrainians for their resilience!


Just looking at this fact means "Z" can't be that incompetent as you make him out to be....two years against such an overwhelming enemy and Ukraine is still standing! What a feat!!!

Russia will be glorified for successfully resisting the richest and most well armed coalition in the history of the world.

Incidentally, if it took 40 of the richest countries in the world, an entire year to train 70,000 Ukrainian troops for last summer's counter-offensive... what's going to happen to the 400-500K Ukrainians that are supposed to be mobilized this year? Hmm?

Two magazines of 7.62x51R shot during Basic Training, a new shovel issued, and onwards to VICTORY!

But only in Russia under Putin.....

The fact that you mentioned it at all clearly suggests you are scared shytless of the prospect. This means Ukrainians are determined to fight on and Russia will never win.

Eh, another very stable genius sustaining himself on a healthy diet of Putin's propaganda brainfarts.

If Russia is fighting the whole West, how come the airspace is not full of F-35s or even F-16s? Where are the thousands of American Abrams tanks? And where are the NATO troops in large numbers?

Keep coping, Muscovite shill number 527.

Exactly!! I have been saying it since 2022 - Russia will never win. Simple. Even if they capture Eastern Ukraine for while, those territories will voluntarily return one day to prosperous Ukraine enjoying the EU membership. Russia will be crushed by continued sanctions and will eventually disintegrate into 10 Russistans. I can`t wait. :):):)

PS. I won`t hold a grudge if 15 Russistans emerge after the collapse of Russia. I am not so mean!!!

Who sent about half the weapons they promised and no soldiers and no air cover.... wanna really rumble, russky?

The rest of the world treats russia like a kid with down's syndrome and russia mistakes that misguided kindness for weakness.... and blames it when it fails...

In socio-cultural or political terms russia has nothing the world wants...

What are you gonna rumble with? Nukes?

Your stocks are depleted, despite not a single F-35 in the sky over Ukraine, and not a single army grunt with boots on the ground.

CNN reports that Russia produces 3 times more artillery shells than the US, Europe, Japan, and Korea combined. Quite good for a rusty old gas station.

Want me to link you articles where Pentagon officials talk about how many years, or decades, it will take to replenish the stocks of this or that weapon system?

You have to save whatever you have left, to provide to your European and Taiwanese satraps.

I hope you are right, but it's not looking good for Ukraine at the moment.

@Bratwurst Boy
Ukraine was being warned for months by the US that Russia would invade. The US made those warnings public a month before Russia invaded and up until just a few days before the invasion Z was denying it would ever happen. Lets not twist publicly available facts and news reports from 2021 and 2022.

@pawian
The US is a super power not only because of WW2. And dont even start on 27 countries with different languages when the US gets 3 new languages a day from illegal immigration.

The bottom line is simple. And if you are from the US you will understand this. All every American wants is a winner. Our whole lives and culture are built on competition and winning. The American people back winners, and they do not see Ukraine as a winner. Thats why public support for more Ukraine funding is in the toilet. This is the most basic thing that is ingrained in every person who grew up in the US. Every politician knows this, and thats why they only back what they see as winning efforts. The mentality of a European is completely different when it comes to work and competition, and admittedly it too me years to adapt to this. This idea of three weeks off from work in the summer was like telling me that jumping into a pool of sharks was a good idea.

Ukraine cannot push Russia out. Nearly every military expert has said this. So, if true, wtf are we doing? Why support men getting killed for no reason. There is no plan that is even remotely possible to move Russia out without 500K more men fighting. If there were one, it would have already happened. Saving lives is what needs to happen.

Quite.

Moscow would be under a metre of glass.

Top 10 deadliest leaders in history

George W. Bush (and others) - 4.6 million

listverse.com/2024/03/12/top-10-of-historys-most-lethal-leaders/

Totally crazy page and they forgot Putin

Mao..... 10s of millions of dead....

your list is crappo, monty.

How things are going in the extremely normal country and not pathologically dysfunctional country of russia?

A major Lukoil executive found dead in mysterious circumstances..... the fourth since the full scale invasion.

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1767942920181559601

In other news the russian 'opposition' remains completely hopeless and pathetic.

Navalny's widow suggests going to the polling places standing around and leaving without voting.

A Navalny associate suggests an app that will randomly select a candidate to vote for.....

russia is like the 80 IQ kid who doesn't realize why he's not getting all A's (and has yet to crack any of his books open).

Sooooo pathetic.... they only thing they're good at is killing civilians.