Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 12

Yes, he is. He's as mad as a box of frogs.


You mention him a lot.

Die in the name of the dark side.



Go, go to Ukraine and die for me! Go, go, fu*k yourself!


Nearly enough. There was planed and organized genocide on Serbians during WWII, and before that, and after.

Plus, him and likes of him, there in the Rome don`t care for Polish children. Or care as they care for Serbian children.

Quoting:

According to the Russian president, Ukraine has to recognize Russian sovereignty over the entire territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics, as well as Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions, "as defined by their administrative borders at the time they joined Ukraine [in August 1991]."

Kiev must withdraw its military from the four regions and inform Moscow in writing that it no longer plans to join NATO, before any ceasefire talks can begin, Putin said last Friday.

Period.

Well said.

Does this old man have anything to say at all?

Oh, I assure you that is not easy to win support from the Serbians.

At the moments of chaos Putin remain calm. That speak much about of the clarity of his mind. Plus, he shows respect to the spirit of old core and our own combinations (that include our deals with healthy Polish elite). We are all aware what is the bottom line and, he offering partnership.

Only by having support of Serbians, Putin stabilized Russian public in his favor, up to 80%.

you are not scoring any points here, quite the opposite you idiot.

Come on that was the German plan too but you misunderstood the means Putin wanted to use, In its implementation phase-a slight error in judgment on this part. Maybe he was a little hasty.

Yet again, Germany is indirectly responsible for a war on the European continent. Bravo you have a knack for it.

@Ironside


The plan was - based on our experience with the SU - to build a partnership between Russia and Europe that would incentivize the former to become a participant in the European peace order and to give the latter cheap energy. The plan itself wasn't bad and close economic interdependence had worked in the past, as evidenced by the EU. The fatal flaw was that we did not recognize with whom we were dealing. Again based on our experience, we though that after the evident failure of their imperial projects, the Russians would jump at the chance of economic prosperity like we did. If you told most Germans back then that Putin would start a war of agression - never mind the atrocities against Ukrainians - that would claim the life and health of up to 500k Russians, cost Russia more than 1tn€ down the line and make it beholden to China. We knew such stupidity from our own past, but assumed that we were unique in that regard. Naive in hindsight, but that happens if you have political leaders who were socialized in post-war Germany. At least now we have other references to base our decisions on. I suppose we need to thank Putin somewhat for helping us get past our complexes to some degree... .


Nonsense. I mean yeah, if you want assign responsibility to all those who had energy ties with Russia, then you can include Germany in a long list - which also includes Poland - of countries that are supposedly responsible.

But politically speaking? I'd say we should look first at the countries who convinced Ukraine to surrender its' nukes, did next to nothing when Russia first invaded in 2014 and then very little until the full scale invasion in 2022. Should Germany have listened to the warnings from the Eastern European countries particulary after 2014? Absolutely. But it is also a simple fact that there were no particular diplomatic obligations that Berlin had towards Kiev. We never guaranteed their independence, were never in an alliance with them and are not their neighbours.

Something to also keep in mind is that common perception of the Ukrainian army is now markedly different from what it was before 2022. Under the impression of the heavy Ukrainian defeats on the battlefield in 2014/15 it was widely assumed even by experts that Ukraine stood no chance against Russia in a full-scale war. Thus the thought that a diplomatic solution, even one that favoured Russia was ultimately beneficial for Ukraine as well. Which let us be clear here, it would have been. Minsk II would certainly have been preferable to this war, even if the war should end with a complete Ukrainian victory down the line. But again, the mistake was assuming that Putin would make a ration cost-benefit analysis instead of being led by his imperialist assumptions.

This assumption also led the countries who did send military aid to Ukraine before 2022, hence their focus on weapons that could be used in a guerilla war.

That was a major mistake.

1, Dependence on one major ores supplier is beyond naive. I would call it something else but let's say you misread Putin.
In that case, how can any political decision-making of German polities be trusted? Why the EU should follow your lead? You just proved that your political class is nincompoops and that their decisions lead to disaster.

2, You can't deny that in the course of those talks, there was a talk about spheres of influence and I can guess that Gemrnay happily agreed to leave Ukraine, Belarus, and everything east of Polish borders in the Russian sphere.

I guess that in that scenario Poland would be in the German sphere but that the north stream is a questionable enterprise. was that in case you couldn't control Poland or what?

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Looks money he was making in Germany allowed him to dream about military solutions. The hold he had on Germany and the EU allowed him to think and it was a correct assumption that Germany wouldn't lift a finger even if they could in Ukraine's defense.

All those factors are true and contributed to his decision-making process.
That is what had happened Germany stood by and idly watched what was going on in Ukraine for the first year as Putin predicted.
I'm not saying that all of that was bad or irrational on the German part but it is a curious mix of rational and irrational well thought and stupid that is puzzling.

I think there is something that aims at the very core of the German attitude toward policymaking and hence it is such a mixed bag.

Don't you have think tanks/?

You thought that Putin was complacent with what he had and was going to cooperate with the West and develop Russia economically. While what Putin really desired since 1990s was the recreation of the USSR. Poles and Polesses were warning the West on multiple occassions about it but you had never listened until 2022. You called us Russophobes and ignored.

what's the fun of that? from a russian point of view simply earning money and developing the country is boring and humiliating....

russian culture is all about humiliation (epiphany I had this year). If there's no chance to inflict humiliation on another country they're not interested

which is ironic since the world generally looks at putain's visit to North Korea as deeply humiliating (reinforced by the North Koreans treating him as a special needs child --- note the portrait they gave him that looked like a tombstone). did you see the video of Kim et al waving goodbye to the airplane? hilarious!

putain is the beggar tsar going to the worst government in the world asking for scraps to help him avoid reality....

Kim asked for a few Russian beauties in exchange. I wonder if that is true, it as well might be. I say send some feminists there as an extra gift but then hardly any of them are a beauty.

Another triumph of his visit to North Korea is that South Korea, which has so far only provided non-lethal aid to Ukraine, is now considering upping the ante and sending weapons...

russia.... how twisted does a country have to be to look at North and South Korea and say.... "Yeah! I want to be friends with the North! Any government that starved 10% of the population to death is okay by me!"?

As twisted as Poland trading with Russia...Today...Right now...

One day you shall understand. In the meanwhile, know this. Serbian magnates would never allow certain things and they are well connected with healthy Polish magnates, outside of Poland and in Poland. Poland is Slavic and Sarmatian thing. Same as we Serbians are. As we don`t obey to the Patriarch of Constantinople if he failed Christianity and he did, same way you as Polish won`t serve Pope of Rome if he failed Christianity and he did. As institution. That for starter.

When Cory Lewandowski few years ago visited Serbia and talked to top Serbian magnates (meaning, people behind rich) he talked in the name of USA Polonia magnates. He talked as brother to brothers >





No, Poland won`t become rogue state whose populace would die to sate Vatican`s or western European dark nobility. As happening to Ukraine.

@pawian


Agreed. But it was not part of a fiendish ploy as suggested.

@Ironside


Because leading means also being willing to shoulder the burden and the costs of the endeavour. There is still a yearning amongst many Germans to become a large Switzerland - trading while staying out of conflicts and let other handle the rest. We were uncomfortable with leading during the Euro crisis but we had to because Germany was financially solvent, and the smaller countries were happy to hide behind us and let us deal with the Greek government. Whatever you may think of Merkel, she did not go to Minsk because she wanted to impose herself, but at the direct request of the Ukrainian president while the leaders of the countries that should have been there due to their commitment to the Budapest were either considered insufficient or had no interest.

If you are unhappy with Germany's preeminent role in the support of Ukraine (behind the USA of course), then your real criticism should be aimed at the countries who in your eyes should lead, yet contribute not enough to do so.


I can because that is something the German government constantly rejected to even contemplate. Putin wanted a second Yalta since 2014 in which he could divide Europe into such spheres. That is what he is still after. But he does not want to negotiate with Germany or any other European country, because those are not peers of Russia in his eyes. He wants to talk with the USA and China.

Germany tried the Normandy talks, in which Ukraine could negotiate with Russia as equals, backed to some (in hindsight too little) support by France and Germany.

This thinking in spheres of influence is something German politicians and the public generally abhors. The only strategic designs regarding Eastern Europe was a) to support the former Warsaw pact members in their democratic transition in order to be finally "surrounded by friends" in our history and b) try to do the same with Russia. With Russia the mistake was that it would be willing to abandon this kind of thinking for the right economic incentive.

Realistically, instead of having great designs it is more likely Merkel did not pay too much attention to Eastern Europe because there were seemingly more pressing concerns. The Euro crisis threatened the existence of the EU (it is easy to forget that shortly after Minsk II, there was another showdown with the Greek government over a potential Grexit), then came the refugee crisis followed by Covid. In hindsight those look almost trivial compared to what we are now facing, but that is not how they appeared back then.


Sure, but that is a charge that can be laid at pretty much every other country. Even the countries that had once guaranteed Ukraine's territorial integrity did very little to support Ukraine after 2014, and they did not have the foreign political tradition to not send weapons into combat zones.


Which year do you mean? Ukraine did not receive any practical aid from countries in 2014 and in 2022 Germany reversed course within days after the full-scale invasion and sent weapons to Ukraine.

And now, r*SSia is trying to spin it by saying that they'll supply weapons to the DPRK! Without saying what sort of weapons however the implication is clear.

Basically sabre-rattling. Saying that if they don't get what they want, they'll do their best to destabilise other regions.

Yet another reason among many to support Ukraine to the max and bring r*SSia down once and for all.

Exactly.

@Ironside

What you brate think? To whose interests to sacrifice life of Polish soldiers in Ukraine? Lives of children in Poland? For dominance of Polish language within the EU? For that?

Are you maddeningly naive brate?

Poland would be stooped to harm itself. That battle happening these days in shadows as you sleep. Battle for domains of civilizations. Real material and spiritual battle. You would speak Polish or not. That battle.

What? Official media in Poland didn`t tell you that?

But how is that possible

...to kill Russians - just like in 1941...The Red Army didn't kill enough of you...


... for which every American with a functioning brain is so very grateful...

With North Korea nuked up, the probability of another loss of 38,000 American lives is zero. We like attacking third-world shltholes like Iraq and Afghanistan.

No, I don't give a fvck if NK is a dictatorship and North Koreans are starving...I have a bigger problem of migrant invasion and 35T debt the azholes in DC have no idea what to do with...

BTW, Nazitus, how many Russians are you willing to kill to get CDL back for your Nazi friends in Ukraine?

There must be a limit that is hopefully lower than 25 million you killed not long ago.

Now we stand and in respect listen to the hymn of Lusatian Serbs.

Narodna hymna Łužicy - Rjana Łužica/ Narodna hymna Łužycy - Rědna Łužyca ze serbskimi tekstami 🔵🔴⚪



Note that flag of Lusatian Serbs coordinates with flag of the state of Serbia on Balkan

SO THAT WE NEVER FORGET WHAT ROME AND ITS MINIONS DID TO US. THAT WE SERBIANS (original Sarmatian name) LIVED AND LIVE FROM BALTIC TO BALKAN ONCE AS ONE AND SAME PEOPLE, AS WE ARE TODAY. STILL. FROM THE SERBIAN SEA (BALTIC- Oceanus Sarmatiacus), VIA FRANKISH LIMES SORABICUS AND CENTRAL EUROPE ALONG THE DANUBE, TO THE LAST SERBIAN STATE ON BALKAN. THIS TRUTH WILL REVEAL ONE OTHER TRUTH. TRUTH OF ORIGIN OF ALL SLAVS, ALL EUROPEANS AND ALL WHITES. Truth hidden for long by the selfish few.

For ancestors! For children of the Dragons! For Sarmatia!

That is why Otto Von Bismarck said `Serbia` on his deathbed.

Hope lives

You will never understand that going on about the Vatican doesn't score you as many points as you think in Poland. Go ahead ~ I don't care but you should add to your moniker adjective stupid if you continue your rants.

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If anything Germany seems to shrink from the burden and financial cost and now they have to worry about their non -non-competitive industry that suffered a huge blow from losing access to Russian ores, from China taking advantage of you and turning the table and bringing useless trash from all over the world that are a strain on German and on stubborn insistence from baling plowing into green policies that will that strow they will break cambel back.

To sum up, your leadership doesn't induce confidence. Your address is to drain financially Poland and dump your trash and your 'guests' on us.

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It took them almost a year, no mistake here. I don't care about rhetoric but about actions.
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I said enough. I don`t have time to say more.


I said what I said because I had to. But, there are people who even don`t need to talk. Those will be heard in Poland. Don`t doubt them.

And Sarmatia will awaken.

Two unanswered questions:

1. How many dead Ukrainians would be too many in this attempt to recover CDL?
2. Why is Poland still just standing and watching instead of fighting alongside the UA to recover CDL?

No, it's because you like to rant but you mistake the Serbian mindset with Polish.
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Nobody listens to ranting in Poland, there are always a few who yapp at any subject imaginable that is a sad marginalized minority.

It's always a bad idea to put all of your eggs in one basket.


His last words were 'Vorwarts' ('Forward').

@Ironside

What is the problem brate? What mindset? What rant?

We Serbs didn`t organize genocide on Vatican but the opposite. Should we now forget it and stay silent on it because somebody in Poland refuse to accept facts? Face it. The moment Vatican organized genocide on Serbs that moment institution of the Pope became nothing to Poles on the long run.

I don`t care who is Catholic or Orthodox or Protestant. Its your private thing. How would you organize as Catholic without the Pope, its also your private thing. But, Pope is nothing to you. He canceled himself. No matter that you aren`t aware of it.

What you don`t understand?