Brexit 2019 and Poland

It's truly marvelous how you manage to turn everything into EU fault. GB government incompetence is EU fault because even if they were competent it wouldn't change anything...

How about complaints from Scottish and Welsh parliments that May refuses to include them in anything and plays .'Zosia Samosia'?

Exactly - the EU has shown up the Brits in 3 ways - by being more organized and prepared, by being united in their approach and by being honest about the consequences. Considering the flak it gets as a dysfunctional organization they have been quite consistent.

Watching Varadkar with Boris today was revealing - Varadkar is just in a different class.

Well, there's no reason for the UK to enforce any border between NI and the Republic as we're both in the EU and we also operate the Common Travel Area which has been going for nearly 100 years.

But you see Maf, the whole point is that Ireland IS actually one country. It's an island and it's basically one nation, artificially divided. The Good Friday Agreement addressed that in a way that was satisfactory to most of the people of NI and the Republic. It removes obvious signs and infrastructure that suggest separate countries and it allows people to choose to be Irish or British. Together with membership of the EU, it was the nearest way for Nationalists to feel they lived in Ireland, and for Unionists to feel that they were still living in the UK. Very importantly, it acknowledged the right of the Irish population of NI to legally and legitimately be recognized by the British government as Irish.

It's a bit surreal, but it's worked until now. Left as it was, another thirty or forty years would probably have seen a natural drift towards some form of united Ireland but it's not right that it should come about at this time nor in this way.


Vardakar and Simon Coveney are a credit to Ireland really in how they've handled Brexit. And in fact, the whole of the Irish parliament and the opposition has been superb in their solidarity and standing behind the government in the best interests of Ireland. We've had some real old gombeen men as we call them in Irish politics over the years but Varadkar and Coveney are proper statesmen.

The new EU Trade Commissioner is to be Irishman Phil Hogan. He'll be responsible for negotiating trade deals with third countries. Not great news for Boris.

Legally, it's two. And while I can see the benefits of not rubbing people's noses in that unpleasant reality, political solutions based on fantasy and wishful thinking rarely work as anything but temporary stopgaps...

But now I'm wondering say the the police are in hot pursuit of a criminal who crosses the border... do they have to stop? Are they free to make arrests on both sides of the border?


Payback is a b1tch! Either the referendum is not honored (and democracy takes a huge hit) or it is honored and an Irishman gets to make life even more miserable for the UK!


It's a bureaucracy doing what bureaucracies do best - letting applicants know just how farked they are.

And that's the idea of the GFA. It's a temporary solution that will continue for as long as it's needed.


No and neither are the Gardaí but in reality they probably do cross the border because it's such a weird configuration that it literally runs through car parks. Yes, that's right, you can be standing in a car park and one part of it is in the North and the other in the Republic. Also the two police services have close cooperation with each other.

However there was recently a bit of a fuss about PSNI personnel carrying firearms when on escort duty which involved crossing the border into the Republic. One politician who had served as a Minister in the Irish government up to 2011 described how his Garda driver had to leave his firearm in the local Garda station on the Republic side before crossing into NI and then the PSNI would insist that the Minister transfer to one of their vehicles. The Garda driver would go back over the border and 'have a cup of tea' while he waited for the Minister :)) Mr Ahern said '"It was very inconvenient at times because all your things would be in your car and you'd want to stay in the car to discuss things with your own people." He said the PSNI escort would bring him back to the border but wouldn't cross into the Republic.


But geographically, historically and culturally it's not. It's one country, part of which is occupied by settlers who haven't assimilated. So, its a country that has in effect a border with itself!

There's only one solution, it seems...

youtu.be/C4OlM0lPqcE

But it's blatently not one country, as the increasing violence, mainly from the republican side, over the last two years has proved.
These people are extremist nutcases on a par with ISIS and Al Queda.
You cannot negotiate with these religious and political extremists.

It's one country with a group of lowland Scots settlers who call themselves "British" and a fake border that was created a hundred years ago to appease them. That's why the 'border' runs through people's gardens and across streams, it was the only way to create a false Protestant/Unionist majority in the North. That's also why they left out six of the nine counties of Ulster, because there would have been a Catholic/Irish majority. Btw nowadays, it's a purely political conflict. Although the most conservative Unionists are indeed quite fundamentalist in their religious beliefs and horrified by liberal modern Ireland, just as they were by the "Papist" Ireland of the past. No pleasing them.

The "Protestant/Unionists" were not a false majority in the north, they were a majority as early as the 18th century, the British created the border to protect them from the "Catholic/Republicans".

Their rights are as old and as legitimate as The USA's.

You really need to read Irish history - read about the Plantation of Ulster. You're way out of your depth trying to discuss Irish history of which you are almost completely ignorant.

Then counter my comment about the "Protestant/Unionists" being in a majority in parts of Ulster in the 18th century.

It seems there's a warning somewhere there..... what could it be?

Not a naturally occurring majority through peaceful migration and settlement, but one deliberately engineered and planted there, frequently with great violence, for the purpose of Anglicizing the most Gaelic part of Ireland. However, that's only a small part of the story - and at the time of partition, it was necessary to omit three of the counties of Ulster in order to guarantee a sufficient Protestant majority in the new state of Northern Ireland.

This is true but "Conquer and invade" is the history of most of the world and especially of The British Isles.
Don't forget, The Irish Celts were settlers/invaders too.

This is a most horific story. In other words, the English have deliberately stolen the land of Ulster from the Celts. Wow, I had no idea it was carried out that way since I have always thought the English were the most innocent lambs of them all on the British Isles.


What people did the Celts invade on the British Isles and in which century?

Ireland was invaded in 1169 by England, which at the time was ruled by Normans.
The invasion force was actually Norman and Welsh(Also Celts).
So you could say that The English "inherited" Ireland from them.
The forced colonization of Ulster by The English was a bumbling attempt to try to quell the rebelious Irish.
Like many things that turned out badly, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Had The English not done this Ireland would have been one country about 100 years ago and The UK would
not now have this Brexit problem with the Irish border issue.

England was originally Celtic too but suffered invasions from The Romans,Vikings, Anglo-Saxons and Normans.

The Normans are known in Ireland as the Old English and the distinction is made between them, because they integrated very well with the Gaelic Irish, and the later planters who did not.

And we weren't invaded. We invited them over, eejits that we were.

LOL!

I didn't know that.

So, does anyone know when the Irish Celts invaded Ireland?

They came to The British Isles (including Ireland) in about 500BC.
Some say earlier.

FFS people. Back on the original topic, and how it's going to screw a generation of our young people from Freedom of Movement if Brexit goes ahead. History is bunk. It's the here and now know which should be concerning us.

This discussion just drifted naturally,as discussions do, from the question of the Irish border.
But you are right,we have drifted way off topic.

Don`t worry, it is off topic board where drifting away isn`t such a big crime as in main boards. Go on as you wish.

F off - this topic has nothing to do with you.
Mind your own business - since when did you have right of say here? Milo did the right thing,and then you stick your grubby nose in? Brexit doesn't affect you - but it does affect millions of YOUNG Poles, and this thread is for the topic of Brexit - not one of your pointless history lessons.

Thank you for your co-operation.

Yes, it is true - the topic of Brexit from a British perspective is boring to me. That is why I have made only two posts so far.

Yet, I wasn`t talking about Brexit in my last post. I was talking about the forum. :):) Didn`t you notice it?


Actually, it affects all Poles, young and old. You should definitely read more about it. :)


Again, you show this funny inconsistency of yours. You play down my history lessons, yet you usually gladly participate in them. Are you as wayward as King Osric`s daughter on the daily basis in your private life too? :):)

Interesting development. Phil Hogan, the new EU commissioner for trade, says that he reckons the EU will grant an extension if the UK asks for one, particularly if it's for an election.

Northern Ireland's Attorney General has determined that the Good Friday Agreement cannot be used to force the UK to remain inside the European Union as the peace deal is not dependent on Britain's membership of the bloc.

John Larkin QC dashed the hopes of British Europhiles hoping to use Ireland and its constitutional situation to sabotage the democratic will of the British people after he made the legal submission at an ongoing legal challenge against the upcoming no-deal Brexit.

In the Belfast Agreement, more commonly known as the Good Friday Agreement, Mr. Larkin said the EU is only mentioned once in the preamble in a sentence that refers to Ireland and the UK as "friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union".

Mr Larkin also argued domestic UK law could not prevent a no-deal because provision for exiting the EU without an agreement was enshrined in Article 50 of Lisbon Treaty, which took primacy.

As the UK will still be a member of the EU at the end of the deadline on October 31 st , EU law will take primacy over British law, including the legislation recently passed making a no-deal Brexit illegal.

This means Prime Minister Boris Johnson can actually use the EU's own rules, as stipulated in the Lisbon treaty to legally break with the block without a bi-lateral deal.

Could you put this in words that the layman can actually understand Milo, instead of quoting from some weird publication? I for one would be most grateful. I haven't been to Oxford, so am not as bright as Johnson and can't grasp this doublespeak.

That is the important bit.