European News and Poland Thread 2

And now shops on the Champs Elysee are ooted and burning and barricades have been set up in the suburbs. Parts of CDG Aiproprt are blocked and the American government is warning its citizens to stay away from crowds. 1968 all over again.


You only contradict yourself. As you were told, very few people in the UK have ever seen a 'hospital bill' or 'doctors' bill;.


In Europe?

I understand that but the debate was about you banging on about how your healthcare is FREE which I finally got you to admit that it is NOT free.

Remember ?


Yes joun, as you were told, including European countries.

polishforums.com/news/poland-european-85987/75/#msg1903024

Gotcha Again !
Someday Liberals will learn that nothing is free.


Here too.

Paid for by tax. I'm 80 times more satisfied with the healthcare I get in Poland than in the US (where without access to group health insurance I had none because as a younger healthy person it would have cost over half my salary).

US healthcare is a criminal undertaking (extortion and money laundering and kickbacks between healthcare 'providers' and 'insurance' companies) that would be shut down in ten seconds in a civilized country.

It's not a 'debate' and the only 'banging on' we see is from you. People in developed countries are satisfied with our healthcare, our pensions, our welfare state; and we can see how fiercly the French are defending theirs.


In Poland, people don't have to. They can, however rarely for major things.

How many people in France or the UK were bankrupted last year due to medical costs? Zero.

We are seeing right now on the news how important people consider the social contract; they are prepared to riot when it is weakened by a despot.

I'm nearly sure I didn't got the half of it about the real reasons for the french rioting but the raising of the retirement age is a necessity for the state budget....maybe Germans are more pragmatic? They know that in a broke country NOBODY gets any pensions or other welfare at all anymore...

Just look at them...All young thugs...worried about their pensions 40 years from now. Sure...Like I am worried about earth temp 100 years from now.

In the US, everybody wants to be an influencer. This is their way of being influencers.

I wonder if they know how many were in Bastille when it was overrun by the mob.

Several reasons and several different groups taking part.

Some who were promised pensions nd will have to wait for them (despite the financial shortfall being small).
Some who objected to this being forced through without a vote and by a President with a small mandate.
Some Trade Unionists acting on behalf of their members and are concerned about a steady erosion of wokers' rights.
Some right-wingers who want to make trouble since they support Marianne marechal.
Some anarchists who just want to make trouble.

The next big push is scheduled for Tuesday; it won't be pretty.

....what will these rioters say when this brings LePen into power?

Is it really worth it?

I doubt it will.

A good centre-left or Socialist candidate may emerge, however the voters of France are determined not to let a crazy near the Elysee palace.

If Marianne Marechal got in through voter apathy or nihilism at the next presidential election )which is a way off), the current civil disorder would look like a walk in the park.

...because that "crazy" would do what? Keep France whiter? Where is the guillotine...

Butt out. We're talking about serious things.

Stop trying to trash threads with pointless bile.

Like this?

In Germany at least civil disorder is a ticket for the far right....always has been....but maybe the French are really different that way.

Still...the big question stays...who do they think will pay for these pensions when the state is broke? Have they forgotten Greece? A whole country ending in the abyss because the govs never dared to cut down on the payments!

BB, you are one of my favorites here...So intelligent and rational.
Try to explain that to a moron who is looking for the next brick to throw at ... something, whatever it is...

....you never say that when we butt heads about Putin and Ukraine....strange!

For us too, however there is always the horseshoe effect.


The state isn't 'broke' though, is it. And the tax burden on the rich is disproportionately low.


Chalk and cheese. Unlike Greece there's a reasonable degree of transparency and a major manufacturing sector.

They don't. Most people in the UK wouldn't know what one looks like.

That is not however what the riots are about.

This isn't a 'debate'. It's a discussion about current affairs in Europe.

There's plenty happening.

Not remotely the same thing.

Europeans pay high taxes but have high quality healthcare in return and nobody fears bankruptcy for having to stay in the hospital for a few days

Americans pay high insurance premiums (if they qualify) and then deductibles and tons of confusing paperwork and can easily end up bankrupt for what would be a minor procedure in Europe....

Stop Baiting joun
You were told the topic was about free health care in Europe and not about 'hospital bills' that you keep trying to derail the topic with.

One more time, NO, Europe does not have free healthcare as it is paid for by all working people in Europe as you have been told several times now.

If you want to debate 'hospital bills' which are quite different than 'healthcare' you will have to find someone else to troll.

But it does have a far more efficient and humane healthcare system than does the US....

Most of the foreigners that come to the USA to get treated do so because of our specialists who are world famous.
Sometimes even the doctors in Europe send their patients to the USA to be treated at the NHC expense.
Waiting time for an elective surgery in the USA is weeks where in other countries it could be months or years.
I guess we all have our bragging rights. ;-)

It has it's faults, often due to funding when certain parties hold office, however on the whole, the concept of care from the cradle to the grave has been a very successful one. The European social contract works well.

The thought of having to pay money to see a doctor is horrific really, as is the lack of a safety net.


What are deductibles? I've seen American people complaining about them online. Is it something that people have to pay for themselves?


You don't get to choose.

Money that insurance won't pay. So if you have a $100 deductible insurance only kicks in after you spend $100. So for a $200 doctor bill only $100 is covered by insurance (and may be subject to other exemptions)

There are also co-pays which are the same idea but more complicated.

We have that for car insurance and home contents. Scary to think it can affect healthcare. What happens if people can't pay?


I had to ask what they were here when one guy said he 'only' has to pay $30 to see a doctor! We have that for dental care, but not for everybody.

In France they do have something like that, an insurance-based system however the amounts are low and have a ceiling.

Say you are very healthy and don't need a lot of office calls or healthcare you can choose a higher deductible from $100 on up say $1000 and so on.

The higher the deductible the less your insurance premium will be.
If you are sickly you can buy insurance with zero deductible that covers everything from tests to surgery but it is very pricey.
After 65 you are eligible for Medicare that automatically pays 80% of your medical bill and you are responsible for the other 20% so you buy a supplimental plan that covers the other 20% which is where the deductibles come in.

Plans run around $125 a month depending on how much of a deductible you choose.
Poor people and people on disability get Medicaid too which picks up that other 20% automatically so in essence they are covered 100%.
The employer of most people pays 80% for the workers healthcare.
It's up to the employee to get a supplemental plan to cover what the employer does not.
And like Dirk said, most people don't pay their medical bills because they were not self inflicted so the courts won't make you pay for something that is not your fault.

So the hospital does not waste their time suing you.
The hospitals pad such bill outrageously and use them for a write off for a tax loss.

Until something happens and you do.


So that system only works if people abuse it?

Is it true that people go bankrupt there due to 'medical bills'?

@jon357


Absolutely.
In some cases bankruptcy is much cheaper than your hospital bills.
Once you declare bankruptcy you start fresh owing no one a dime on any of your debts.

You are right.

I asked what they would do if I couldn't pay. "We would write it off as charity", was the answer.

I.e. penniless due to medical treatment.

Something that never happens in Western Europe.

Easy to understand why people, rich and poor alike, prefer the European systems.