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Poland - Serbia etc. thread



Vesko Vukovic
5 Aug 2019  #451

@mafketis

Could Milosevic have controlled Croat nationalism?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Yugoslav_Embassy_shooting
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_355
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miljenko_Hrka%C4%87

Could Milosevic have controlled (the newly unified) German geopolitical agenda towards the Balkans?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Dietrich_Genscher
(Germany became the economic powerhouse of Europe, the locomotive of the EU, spearheaded by the foreign Minister Hans Dietrich Genscher a former member of the Nazi party.)

Could Milosevic have controlled the Vatican's schemes and support for separatists in Yugoslavia?
(Evidence has emerged that prove the Vatican Bank provided funds to arm separatists in Croatia)

Should Milosevic have allowed Islamic terrorists to seize the entire territory of Bosnia?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Declaration

Should Milosevic have allowed Islamic terrorists to seize the entire territory of Kosovo?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_protests_in_Kosovo
nytimes.com/1982/11/28/weekinreview/war-of-terror-by-albanians-in-yugoslavia-strains-unity.html

Crow
5 Aug 2019  #452

This Polish girl seems to like it:

You know how Poles reacted to medieval Serbians in Poland or as they call them Racowie? They seen them as Gods. Sarmatian finest. Best of Europe and Slavdom. As Gods of Wrath they were seen.

And what can cute Polish girls in front of robust dinarid male? That is when female bran giving up and all hormones go mad

mafketis
5 Aug 2019  #453

Could Milosevic have controlled

Yeah, there were challenges all around, but there's reason to believe that it might not gone have to gone hell so thoroughly as it did had it not been for Milosevic alienating the rest of the country as thoroughly as he did...

most of your post looks like standard bully argumentation "Ohhhh I had to attack because people were being so meeeeaaann to me!" that's why I say Balkan nationalism tends toward an infantile view of the world and infantilizes it's followers...

cute Polish girls in front of robust dinarid male?

I don't think he goes for that....
fotografias.antena3.com/clipping/cmsimages02/2017/10/19/4DC01AE1-CC9F-4404-AD09-56EB5E5515FB/58.jpg

Tacitus
5 Aug 2019  #454

Genscher a former member of the Nazi part

Just for clarification. Genscher was 17 years old when the war ended, and he was drafted into the army with the other boys of his class. With them he was enlisted into the NSDAP without his knowledge because the local NSDAP mayor wanted to carry favour with his higher ups by showing that the youth still stood behind the NSDAP.

Genscher is notable for having been widely supportive of those who were suppressed by others. Hence why he sought early to establish ties to the suppressed people in the Eastern Bloc, while others like the SPD wanted to mostly talk with Moscow directly.

His insistence to recognize Croatia came from his sympathy towards the supresses people, and the realization that Yugoslavia as an idea was dead everywhere but in Serbia. His decision is nowadays widely validated by historians. Nobody believes that Yugoslavia had any chance of survival by 1991. It was a corpse, still-born at its' birth and only kept together by Tito's political skills. When Tito died, so did Yugoslavia, it just took a while until the rot was sufficient to make it fall apart.

Genscher's only mistake was his naivite that the recognition would have stopped the fighting. He should have instead tried to form a coalition to make them stop, if necessary by force. Then again, many people back then underestimated particulary the irredentistic ambitions of the Serbs. Serbia was de facto a rogue state in this period, and could only stopped by force, which eventually did happen.

Vesko Vukovic
5 Aug 2019  #455

Had Bosnia been divided according to ethno-religious lines like Ireland was the war could have been avoided.

youtu.be/es267LuAcAA

James Bisset - Canadian Ambassador in Yugoslavia: USA started the war in Bosnia

Vesko Vukovic
5 Aug 2019  #456

youtu.be/GzMKgeESSu4
youtu.be/S2xNHknsQPI

A retired Brigadier-General Pierre Marie Gallois of French army testifies in the front of a camera of his involvement in a secret meetings held in Germany. He explains the long existed plan for destruction of Yugoslavia and punishment of Serbs by Germany for their anti-German role in WW1 & WW2.

Crnogorac3
5 Aug 2019  #457

Even though we were on opposing sides I have more respect for Germans as a nation than Brits. At least Germans do not sell out their allies unlike the treacherous Brits...

Vesko Vukovic
5 Aug 2019  #458

@Tacitus

Do you suppose that Serbia paid or bribed Canadian Ambassador James Bisset and French General Gallois to speak on our behalf?

Genscher's only mistake was his naivite

He was as "naive" as a Hungarian waitress. Yeah sure, like he didn't know or wasn't awared he was signing up to be a member of the Nazi party. All of a sudden he received a case of temporary amnesia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Kohl

Also let's not forget that the then Chancellor of Germany Helmut Kohl who was a member of Hitler Jugend had a pathological hatred for Serbs, the reason being of the personal tragedy of his wife Hannelore who was raped by Russians which left her with a psychological trauma that eventually led to her suicide. This nutter in his sick and twisted mind actually believed that by attacking Serbia he was taking revenge for what the Russians had done to his wife.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannelore_Kohl

The main reasons Serbia was chosen to be attacked by NATO pact were:

1. Slavic country
2. Orthodox Christian
3. Ally of Russia

No other country in Europe fulfills all of these criteria.

Vesko Vukovic
5 Aug 2019  #459

Genscher is notable for having been widely supportive of those who were suppressed by others

In 1991 German dominated EU led by former Nazi Genscher & member of Hitler Jugend Kohl supported Neo-Ustasha groups coming to power in Croatia:

HOS

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Za_dom_spremni

Can you understand now Tacitus why Serbian people had every right to rebel and did not want to live in such a state, especially as mafketis pointed out the previous WWII historical experience?

In 2014 German dominated EU with Angela Merkel at the helm, gave official support to Neo-Nazi Banderist thugs to overthrow the legal government in Ukraine:

Banderists

blogs.mediapart.fr/matberg-kate/blog/270119/neo-nazism-law-ukraine-has-not-learned-history-lesson

Crow
5 Aug 2019  #460

It pains my heart to see such an abominable malevolence in Split that once in past, beside Dubrovnik, was crucial port of Serbian Empire. Actually, origin of Nemanjic Imperial house even is said to be from between Split and Herzegovina (older name- Zahumlje). But, combined power of Vatican and Germanics is immense. They used their chance when Serbians were exposed to Ottoman Turkish invasion and focused their effort to separate and indoctrinate Catholic Serbs with anti-Serbian and pro-Germanic stance. Then, in next step significant number of Orthodox Serbs was massively converted to Catholicism, by use of economic incentives and brute force. Survived Orthodox Serbs were ethnically cleansed.

But, its not clear that would Vatican and Germanics escape with this what they done to Serbs, no matter that Anglos and Francos doing their best to bail-up them on this matter. In any case their attempt to form Croat nations from within Serbian people would remain as unique case in Europe, where religion was taken as starting point for formation of new nation. Convert and then use infrastructure of Church to form nation as it suits to interests of outside powers.

Miloslaw
5 Aug 2019  #461

ethnically cleansed

A subject Serbs are experts on.......and why Serbia will never be allowed to grow.
You are your own worst enemies.... always have been.... history repeating.....

Tacitus
5 Aug 2019  #462

he was signing up to be a member of the Nazi party.

He never signed up, that is the point. His name and the name of others was copied from the list of young recuits that was drafted in the last months of the war.

Kohl [...] had a pathological hatred for Serbs

This is probably one of the most hilariously wrong characterizations I have read here on pf. Not only was the defining lesson Kohl and Genscher learned from their war time experience that you had to reach out to your former opponents, and they abhored war so much as it was pragmatically possible for politicians. Kohl and Genscher were barely adults (or in the latter, still a boy) when the war ended, and they became commited democrats, learning the right lessons from Germany#s past.

Kohl also famously got along well with several Slavic politicians, including the first democratically elected PM of Poland and Gorbachev. In fact Kohl did a lot to deepen ties to the former enemies in the East and supported their newly won freedom.

Honestly, the history behind Germany's recognition of Croation is pretty straightforward. Initially no one in Bonn took much notice of what happened in Yugoslavia, because they were more concerned with Eastern Europe and German reunification. Then when things started to get messy, Kohl initially wanted to wait for France and the USA to make the decision, however both dragged their feet on it. He was then convinced by his advisors, including Genscher to recognize Croatia with those irrefutable arguments:

-Croatia had been forced to become part of Yugoslavia to begin with. So recognizing it would correct a historical mistake and restore historical justice.
-Croatia's struggle for independece was not much different with the countries in Eastern Europe leaving the yoke of the SU. Bonn could not support those attempts while ignoring the plight of the Croats.

-There was no public support for staying in Yugoslavia among the Croats. As one of his advisors put it, telling the Croats to wait would be like telling the East Germans to stay in the GDR.

Those arguments hold still up today. The only argument that turned out to be false was that a recognition of Croatia would convince the Serbs that their cause was lost, due to the diplomatic isolation of the other countries and force them to negotiate a breaku-up peacefully. Unfortunately Milosevic was not Gobarchev, and instead the Serbs aimed to keep Yugoslavia together by force.

Dougpol1
5 Aug 2019  #463

force them to negotiate a breaku-up peacefully.

the Serbs aimed to keep Yugoslavia together by force.

An excellent summary and history lesson Tacitus. Thank you for the clear facts. Which ordinary citizens everywhere will recognise. When the Serb state and population as a whole admits its' mistake, they will be admitted to the international community and may well join the European Union.

When. I don't believe it will ever happen because they are a rogue state dominated by their illiterate nationalist mob.

Vesko Vukovic
6 Aug 2019  #464

UK

Crow
6 Aug 2019  #465

It was major British mistake to meddling in violent dissolution of Yugoslavia on the side of pro-German/Nazi separatists and on behalf of Germanic interests. They won`t tell it to Brits in mass media, they will lie to its own people but their economic interests are globally ruined because Serbians say that Britain must be stooped. If solely Russia asked China, India, Israel, Japan or Brazil to do whatever they can to ruin Britain, nobody wouldn`t listen. But, now Serbians explaining and global circles see where is the problem and coming in aid to Serbia. In such an environment, Russia can do much more to help Serbia. But it is us Serbians that endured and created conditions for open Russian military action, if become necessary. Now even China offering its military aid to Serbia. Think about it. Just think about it.

Actually, even Hungary sided with Serbia and already was directly involved in border incident on Serbian side (few years ago), on Danube where borders of Serbia, Hungary and Croatia meets. Hungarian river warships came to stand beside Serbian warships and turned their guns on Croatian warships. Official Hungary`s explained was that Croatia isn`t right in dispute and that Hungary don`t wish to allow to Croatia to drag entire NATO in war on wrong side.

Tacitus
6 Aug 2019  #466

Hungarian river warships

Are you sure this wasn't a weird dream you had? I am not sure that Hungary even has a navy, all the results I found directed me to the navy of Austria-Hungary.

Crow
6 Aug 2019  #467

It was few years ago. Incident on Danube. I gave that link somewhere here. Now you go search for link. I merely reminding.

Tacitus
6 Aug 2019  #468

That is not how discussions work. If you make such outrageous claims, it is your duty to provide evidence for them. Why would anyone waste their time when a quick Google search reveals that Hungary does not even seem to have a navy.

Imagine if I claimed that a German aircraft carrier has found the lost ruins of Atlantis. And you, after checking that Germany does not even have aircraft carriers, would be required to prove my story. Silly right?

Crow
6 Aug 2019  #469

Very well, I tend to agree with you on this. So, until I find some link, just disregard my post on that matter.

Vesko Vukovic
6 Aug 2019  #470

JSO was the most elite unit this region has ever seen.

youtu.be/Oed6XQ-ow7Y

Crvene Beretke are simply the best.

Miloslaw
6 Aug 2019  #471

The best what?
Genocidal murderers?

Miloslaw
6 Aug 2019  #472

@Vesko Vukovic
@Crnogorac3
@Crow

You guys need to see true professionals at work.

youtu.be/tQ-SNl914MY

Properly trained and with proper equipment ( American ), not Russian rubbish....... watch this video and weep at how far behind you are, as a nation, as a people and militarily.......oh, and Poles have the true eagle emblem..... one that means something......

mafketis
6 Aug 2019  #473

The best what?
Genocidal murderers?

Hey... it's all they have after the string of colossal blunders, failures and embarrassments to the human race known as 'Serbian history' after 1989....

Miloslaw
6 Aug 2019  #474

Serbia is a disgrace to Europe.
Unfortunately these Serbs don't seem to understand and are as nuts as The IRA in Ireland and just like The IRA may start another bloody war over nothing.

Dirk diggler
6 Aug 2019  #475

Atleast they removed more kebab than any other European peoples in the past few decades. Maybe if Serbia joins the EU they can clean up w Europe. Imagine if all the Muslims were gone - no more no go zones, no more hordes of neckbeards and ninjas, no more paki rape squads, no more sharia courts, no more $25 bil a year in Germany alone spent on nannying, etc. Terrorist attacks would cease, child grooming gangs would be a distant memory, rape stats would plummet, unemployment levels decrease, tons of homes and apartments sponsored by taxpayers would become available, soldiers wouldn't have to stand in tourist spots wity automatics to prevent spontaneous cultural enrichment. The list of benefits is endless while the list of cons is essentially nonexistent.

Miloslaw
6 Aug 2019  #476

Atleast they removed more kebab than any other European peoples

Your obsession with Muslims and Jews has now put you in the same list as Crow.
My "Stark Raving Bonkers" file....... please prove me wrong Adrian..... I have read your old posts under your earlier pseudonym and you seemed to be a nice kid.

Please prove me wrong of my current opinion of you.

Tacitus
6 Aug 2019  #477

Let us just kill everybody in Europe. That way there won't be any crimes at all.

Crow
7 Aug 2019  #478

@Miloslaw
@Tacitus

You guys are NATO and EU fanatics. Just spread their anti-Serbian propaganda.

Atleast they removed more kebab

Nazi separatist Croat ustashe and radical Muslims started, sponsored by western Europe, Vatican, Islamic league and USA Clinton.

Serbians only failed to kill enough.

Miloslaw
7 Aug 2019  #479

Listen to yourself......... and you wonder why people judge you badly.

Crow
7 Aug 2019  #480

Me to listen myself? Me? Pardon.

Western Europe, Vatican, Islamic league and USA Clinton paid their local sponsors, Nazi Croat ustashe and radical Muslims in Bosnia and started killing of Serbian civilians and dissolution of Yugoslavia. Serbians then responded and frankly, not enough.

And you live with your shame as Nazi ustashe and mujaheedine supporter. Try to look yourself in the mirror and not puke.

If you have shame.


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