Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

Gregy, your claim was "Janusz Piechocinski told Reuters news agency on Tuesday that he is disappointed with Ukraine's failure to make headway in establishing a democratic political system,". Can you please point to the part of the Reuters article where he says that.

not my claim,but title of article...
after reading what polish deputy said,,this title it fully justifiable...i see no exaggeration or"brainwashing"
if you think this is brainwashing,you should read western news about"putin murdered innocent people" in plane crash...ect
or maybe would you point me where is such a evil brainwashing present in their article?

reuters:
"Piechocinski, leader of the centre-right junior coalition partner PSL, told Reuters he thought Ukrainian elites had made disappointing progress in building a Western-style democracy."

"Unfortunately, the elites have disappointed. One year ago it seemed that Ukraine was on course to become a stable, predictable democracy of our sphere of values," Piechocinski said.

"These signals which are coming from Ukraine are very disturbing, because the economy there is beginning to disintegrate, economic ties are beginning to disintegrate," Piechocinski said in an interview.

Gregy, your claim (there were no quote marks in your post or other signs the words were not your own) was "Janusz Piechocinski told Reuters news agency on Tuesday that he is disappointed with Ukraine's failure to make headway in establishing a democratic political system,". Can you please point to the part of the Reuters article where he says that.

title of sputnik report is not a quote of piechocinskys words Harry,and you know that,...purpose of title is to summary of what they are reporting about...dont play idiot again.

and its perfectly correct. i dont see nothing wrong with it....you pathetic attempts to pick on anything is laughable...and its only purpose to drive away discussion from information presented there..

Gregy, you have repeatedly claimed Janusz Piechocinski told Reuters news agency on Tuesday that he is disappointed with Ukraine's failure to make headway in establishing a democratic political system. Please point to the parts of the Reuters article in which he says that he is disappointed with Ukraine's failure to make headway in establishing a democratic political system. Surely you can do that, can't you?

there we go,here:
piechocinski, leader of the centre-right junior coalition partner PSL, told Reuters he thought Ukrainian elites had made disappointing progress in building a Western-style democracy
"Unfortunately, the elites have disappointed. One year ago it seemed that Ukraine was on course to become a stable, predictable democracy of our sphere of values," Piechocinski said.

mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LZ1DH20150303?irpc=932

No, gregy, that is a statement that Ukrainian elites had made disappointing progress in building a Western-style democracy. Your claim was that he is disappointed with Ukraine's failure to make headway in establishing a democratic political system, are you going to support your claim?

yes
those are minor differences in meaning...and "my claim" was not a quote of piechocinskis words...capito?
understandably correct claim, result of conclusion made from what piechocinski said.

its interesting,and disturbing that polish deputy head of government,of country that is one of fiercest critic of Russian policy,and greatest supporter of Ukrainian government,now making such a telling statement..saying about disappointment with ruling elite of Ukraine and their disastrous economical failure.

he doesn't blame on so called" Russian invasion" for Ukraine economic disaster,but Ukrainians ruling elite...hmmmm...seems like some people starting to realize reality.

BERLIN, March 3 (Reuters) - The U.S. military estimates around 12,000 Russian soldiers are supporting pro-Moscow separatists in eastern Ukraine, U.S. Army Europe Commander Ben Hodges said on Tuesday.

"The Russian forces are made up of military advisers, weapons operators and combat troops, Hodges said in a speech in Berlin, adding that a further 29,000 soldiers were stationed in the Crimea peninsula that Moscow annexed from Ukraine last year.

In addition, 50,000 troops are positioned on the Russian side of the border with Ukraine in case the separatists suffer a severe setback and the Ukrainian army gains the upper hand, Hodges said."

dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-2978099/Some-12-000-Russian-soldiers-Ukraine-supporting-rebels--U-S-commander.html

Greggy
It stands to reason that Piechocinski meant Ukraine unless it's being suggested that the elites have a different political system to everyone else in Ukraine.

Flagless
There are more than 50,000 Russian troops in Russia.
More facts from the same people who brought us Saddam and his human shredder, the Kuwaiti incubator lie and the WMDS.

It is not what the Reuters article reflects therefore it is manipulating. It is very similar to Sputnik first saying that "Polish Deputy Prime Minister Janusz Piechocinski says that he is disappointed in the post-coup Ukrainian political elite's failure to make any substantive headway in building a stable democracy,"

Can you please point that out in the Reuters article? He has not said anything like that. What he said was ""Unfortunately, the elites have disappointed. One year ago it seemed that Ukraine was on course to become a stable, predictable democracy of our sphere of values,"

Can you see the difference? Yes, Sputnik published the original quote, however, their version of what he said appears first in their article, forming the readers mind already. That is manipulative journalism or simply brainwashing.

More U.S. boots on the ground in Ukraine.
The United States is sending 300 more troops with equipment.
I am much more worried about war with Iran right now than I am with the Ukraine.

And here we go again. Only half the truth is being told.

What will happen is that the US is sending 300 military personnel to train the Ukrainian army close to Lviv from March until October.

That sounds a lot different to your dramatic "300 more troops with equipment".

Really, Barney? Perhaps you could point out the statements from NATO about Saddam? My understanding of history is that NATO was not involved in the invasion of Iraq and did not make any statements about human shredders, Kuwaiti incubators and WMDs, perhaps you could be so kind as to provide quotes which support your version of history?


No, there cannot be more: there are not currently any. The only US military boots in Ukraine at the moment are on off-duty Marines from the USMC ESG.


Yes, but who worries about war with a Soviet Socialist Republic which ceased to exist 24 years ago?

The Ukrainian parliament decided to celebrate a birthday anniversary of Petro Diachenko on on the state level. Diachenko worked for German intelligence during World War II, and he become the commander of the waffen ss 31. Schutzmannschafts-Bataillon der SD . Diachenko led a part of this unit in the suppression of the Warsaw uprising. A company commander of the 31st battalion was recently located in the US, and German prosecutors investigate his involvement in the massacres:

zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/184-viii
wonder if thay soon will be celebrating birthday of Demianiuk

Yes there are Harry. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they are not there.


The whole middle east and europe would be my guess at this point.
Guess you missed the speech yesterday.


NO, that will not happen any time soon. You are now the liar.
You bring me so much laughter.......sheer entertainment from your trolling here.
I posted that because I knew you would debate it just like all the rest of my posts here within minutes after I post.
Are you in love with me Jolly ?
You really should quit following me around and replying to all my posts within minutes after I post.
Now for the TRUTH of the matter..........and may I emphisise the word WAS..............
The U.S. was planning to train three Ukrainian battalions this month at a site close to the Polish-Ukrainian border.
A U.S. paratrooper battalion assigned to the 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team in Vicenza, northeast Italy, has already been readied for the deployment.


What about 300 U.S. airborne combat paratroopers (that you call, military personel) being deployed
WITH their equipment to Ukraine sound so "dramatic" to you besides the fact that you are purely trolling to start an arguement ???????
If you are not in love with me you certainly have a infatuation with me to be such a nuisance troll.

Ok and now you say......


yet, when i say that........


........you are calling me a liar. Where do you think Lviv is?

The question is what public want, peace or war? Did any of you contemplate on that? i did. Is war in human nature?

Let's just say that you are very reckless with the truth.


That is the best you could do ? LOL
I never questioned where Lviv is, those are YOUR words to dig your hole deeper.
Where did I ever mention Lviv and don't lie this time.
I hate to confuse the issue with the facts but damn it Jolly.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
What I said was.........


What you said......


Now rather than troll with such trivial balderdash for the mere sake of arguement to save face, how about just
admitting that I am your guiding light to your pompous trolling.

Johnny, you are aware that this thread is accessible for every registered member of this forum, aren't you?
That means that everybody here is able to read, understand and make up their own minds.
Just because you keep shouting and trying to undermine my posts, does not mean that it actually works on the majority of the registered users here. In other words, just because you try to keep shouting the loudest, doesn't mean that you are right.

You have said that the U.S. is sending more troops with equipment. If anyone who doesn't know it better reads this, they might think that the U.S. is fighting in Ukraine.

The fact however is that the U.S. is sending 300 military personnel to train the Ukrainian army.

"Sending troops" implies active combat mission. However, this is nothing but a training mission. Nothing more, nothing less.


I have not said that you have mentioned Lviv. It was me who said that the US military personnel would train the Ukrainian army "close to Lviv".

To that you responded that "i am a liar" because they are being send close the Polish - Ukrainian border.

Now, if I say that the mission will be close to Lviv and for that you call me a liar because "the mission will be close to Polish - Ukrainian border" then you are doing nothing but show your lack of knowledge on the subject at hand, your lack of geographical knowledge and possibly even your inability to read and understand.


Coming from the man who just last week posted here, on an internet forum, that he does not have internet access. But keep going :)

O.K. jolly, everyone here believes you, just ask you. lol

Putin Won't Blitz Baltic States. Do you believe this Crow ?
The ongoing deployments to Poland and the Baltics will be renamed "Atlantic Resolve North"
A new "Atlantic Resolve South" will put troops in Bulgaria, Romania, and potentially other countries such as the Czech Republic, Hungary, and even Georgia.

breakingdefense.com/2015/03/putin-wont-blitz-baltic-states-but-nato-has-a-plan

Merged: Something good for Slavic cause by the Zbigniew Brzezinski

i won`t go into the reasons of this American diplomat of Polish origin but, this suggestion seams to be good. Peace on Slavs. With Zbigniew Brzezinski or without him, USA would supply Ukraine with weapons. Its simple as that. But, to give the guarantees to Russia, that would USA respect Ukrainian military neutrality, is truly remarkable and good suggestion. Bravo Mr. Brzezinski. Bravo Pane.

"Give Russia guarantees Ukraine won't join NATO"

No country other than Ukraine has any right whatsoever to offer any guarantees about what Ukraine will or won't do.

Joining NATO is something Ukraine can't do on its own..not up to them. If U.S and other countries guarantee to not let Ukraine join NATO, Ukraine will have no power over that choice.

Read what Brzezinski said "We must guarantee to the Russians that a free, democratic, European Ukraine would not seek to join NATO, which Russia sees as a threat, but will act like Finland".

And his comment shows a distinct lack of knowledge of currently events, given that


defensenews.com/story/defense/policy-budget/leaders/2015/03/05/finland-nato-membership-election-baltic-urkaine/24427371

Anyway, if one is to believe RT, Finland is already in NATO:

Harry, that what makes today`s Ukraine was created by the both, ethnic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians. One can even say that is today`s Ukraine result of the efforts of the two Slavic empires, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russian Empire that were in mutual competition over the region, while at the same time defended region from hostile non-Slavs.


you are the one who fails to see the point of the Brzezinski`s suggestion. He said: ``We must guarantee to the Russians``. He didn`t say just `Russia` or `Russians in Ukraine`. He understand what is the problem. If one wants to ignore Russians, Russians would ignore him. Its their historical right in the region. Its about their country, same way as it is about the country of Ukrainians. So, ignore Russians and they may go out of Ukraine. But, if one for all sorts of reasons insist that what is today`s Ukraine continue its existence as one country, one must be ready for the compromise. For the ethnic Russians that compromise is, among other things, Ukrainian military neutrality and, obviously, Brzezinski see it pragmatically and after all, admits it honestly.

who would say that would Zbigniew Brzezinski practically conclude discussion of this thread.

Speaking about Ukraine joining NATO, I think it is quite important to say that the fundamental principle of every democracy is that people can choose their form of government and all important issues related to it, such as joining various international organisations. Everything with Ukraine would have been OK had the government of this country listened to the words of its people, of its citizens. What happened was that no one there asked the people do they want to join the EU or NATO.

I'm writing this because my country, Bulgaria, joined the EU and NATO without having any referendum regarding this issue. The politicians do what they want, or what they are forced to do. The same, as I see it, is in Ukraine. I am sure that most Ukrainians would have voted for the EU. Still, such a referendum was not held there. Why? I think the war would have been avoided.

The same is valid regarding NATO. Instead of asking their own people, the people ruling Ukraine vote bill after bill concerning the presence of foreign military forces on its territory (meaning, NATO forces). This is the wrongest possible way to solve the crisis- because many people in Eastern Ukraine do not support joining NATO. But who cares about the people- this is "democracy".

When you think most of the Slavs in all Slavic countries are against NATO, while still ready to give chance to the EU. Meaning, Slavs are maybe naive but, definitely aren`t stupid. But, Slavic masses don`t have real power to decide. Slavs are guided like a sheep.

How much of a chance Crow ?
I took this from Sputnik today however it sounds like you reporting it.

The future of the European Union lies in at least three fragmented alliances around influential centerpieces,
Sanda Raskovic Ivic, President of the Democratic Party of Serbia, told Sputnik.
"The EU will one day eventually fall apart on at least three alliances," Raskovic Ivic said.
"One alliance is going to be around Germany, the Baltic countries, maybe central European countries plus Croatia and Slovenia.
The other alliance is going to be around France and it might take Mediterranean countries.
And the third is going to be Great Britain that will go with the United States," the Serbian official told Sputnik.

Of course he said that. If the EU does not want to play with Serbia, Serbia wants to thrash the EU.......kindergarden


Why is Germany's strategic partner France not mentioned in this alliance? Just a random list of countries or did you actually put some thought into it?


You mean the Mediterranean countries that are now heavily depending on joint Germany and France's decision for more support? You think that France will just go into an alliance with them so that France can support these countries by itself ? :) :)