Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

That's what Vice did in their last video. The one thing that stood out was how the locals differentiated between the local separatists and the, what they believed to be, Russian regular soldiers. According to the locals the Russian soldiers were well behaved, fed them, made sure that the civilians are looked after.

On the other hand the separatists were looting and taking whatever they could get their hands on. One women had her vodka stolen from the cellar the other complained that the separatists stole money from her house. That would be the same people that claim to be fighting for their motherland and "their people" ........

Putin says this, the US says something else... I thought we were long ago at the stage where satellites could zero in on a box of matches in the middle of a road. Can't they photograph hulky-bulky Russian tanks, APCs and weaponry entering Ukraine and isn't it possible for alrted Ukrainian forces to strike that very crossing point or send drones in to do the job. One sometimes gets the impression that the tactics of the Great War are still being used.

Which crossing point?

Is it your goal on this forum to become the most ignorant member?

Before the outbreak of the war there was no real border between eastern Ukraine and Russia. Yes they had border crossing points where people officially crossed but nothing would have stopped anyone to just cross over the the green border. Border security was hardly in existence simply because there was no need for it.

While some of the regions which were not captured by separatists stepped up border security and started to build an actual border with fences etc. (Kharkiv Oblast for example), the part which was taken by the separatists remains with the same almost non-existent border as it used to be before.

So Ukraine may "strike" on one part of the green border one day and the separatists and Russian forces move a few hundred meters down the road / forest and cross there.

How do you think all that weaponry the separatists used to take over Donetsk and Luhansk was brought into Ukraine before the war broke out? Hardly through official border crossing points.


-


-


-


Perhaps you should try to educate yourself on the topics you are trying to discuss instead of time and time again display that you lack knowledge on simply every single topic of this forum

I truly meant this as a generic term, ie the place where Russian troops and weaponry entered Ukrainian territory. I did not imagne a customs house and border guard station. So you are saying that the border is a vague concept in many places running through a field or forest with nothing to mark it? I learn something every day.

Merged: Donbass separatism reached West?

Members of the European Parliament: Lviv, Ivano-Frankivsk and Ternopil western provinces of Ukraine are standing one step from ruining the state of Ukraine:

doubtingsteven.blogspot.com/2015/06/ukraine-321-booooooooom.html

that's very interesting document.
of course..it was obvious for everyone with abit of brain , that this Kiev junta thugs are bunch of Nazi criminals,oligarchs puppets destroying Ukraine.took idiots in EU year to realize what was obvious for common folk right from beginning.

those war criminals should stand trial for their atrocities,and EU stop supporting those scumbags immediately!!!
there was a bill passed in US senat recently,forbidding to arm most of Ukrainian battalions due to their openly neonazi affiliation.even US is starting to see what **** they were supporting

Drones Find Russian Base Inside Ukraine
Aerial footage finds smoking-gun evidence of Russian army involvement in the conflict. More war is inevitable.

"What makes this already impressive discovery even more startling is the location-less than 12 kilometers from the Ukrainian front-line settlements of Granitnoye and Novolaspa. This area, to the east of Volnovakha and the Donetsk-Mariupol highway, has seen a slow but steady intensification of violence over recent months, as well as a build-up of Russian troops and armor in separatist-held territory behind the front lines."

thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/30/apparent-russian-base-found-in-ukraine.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

The poster is on the Kremlin's payroll no doubt.

Yeah he probably got a bag of potatoes and a raw fish for that post, well done peasant.

Russia examines 1991 recognition of Baltic independence.

The Russian chief prosecutor's office is to examine whether the Soviet Union acted legally when it recognised the Baltic states' independence in 1991.
The investigation was described as an "absurd provocation" by Lithuania's Foreign Minister Linas Linkevicius.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-33325842

I'm really curious how the usual Putin apologists will respond to that. Let me see the excuses... take your time, I know need it to coordinate with whatever Kremlin is about to spout out through its usual propaganda channels... However knowing that most of you are exceptionally dense let me translate the headline for you:

Russia is now officially questioning the Baltic countries' right to independence.

Russia cannot question anything..its not human and doesn't have brain,mind
Russian prosecutor is not Russia..its independent from president office,doesnt create foreign policy,nor make any foreign policy decision ...how about you think first before writing idiocy.

You do know that the prosecutor general is nominated by the president of Russia, don't you? The nomination is then approved by majority vote of the federation council. Current chair person of the federation council is Valentina Matviyenko who belongs to the "United Russia" party. Now, take a guess which party the current president of Russia belongs to.......... Yes, also United Russia.


Hardly anything in Russia is independent from the presidential office. But seeing how you once again went back to insulting people instead of using proper arguments (probably because you have no clue what you are talking about), I don't expect you to know that.

so what..polish prosecutors are also nominated by ministers..doesn't mean its not independent.remember Ziobro case?they put him against tribunal for merely consulting general prosecutors

does prosecutor being nominated by president equal -Russia?
it was you barking here about "Russsia" warmongering and then quoted and linking to zirinowski.stop this idiocy...people are not that stupid,and fed up with this BS...Russia this russia that.


what people? few buthurted gays who dont like putin?

I can not remember ever mentioning, quoting or linking to Zirinovskij. Perhaps you could point out the post in which you claim I have done that?


You are playing with words. Following your logic, we should also stop saying that Germany won last year's world cup based on the fact that it wasn't all 88 million Germans standing on the pitch but only the 11 men that represented Germany.

If Russia's prosecutor's office was in fact independent, they should be extremely busy looking into the allegations of Russian armed forces being involved in the war in eastern Ukraine. They should be looking into allegations of Putin's corruption, trying to understand his alleged extreme wealth while "only" earning a salary of 95k USD p.a. .

If they were so independent, that should be their priorities but somehow these investigations do not take place. Instead they are investigating the lawfulness of the Baltic states independence. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know why that might be.


Your way of arguing your case is astonishing.

i dont think its directed against baltic states..this investigation is carried to establish people ,guilty of dismembering soviet union.maybe,some sort of interior political move.independence of Baltic states is not questionable,even if done illegal way.

maybe its the way Russia is saying...look-if you say Crimea was incorporated against Ukraine law therefore it shouldn't be recognized,then how about Baltic states?

Russia need international recognition of Crimea incorporation-badly.
but still Jolly...general prosecutor is not voice of russia on international scene

It's entirely political and intended to intimidate those former USSR vassal states that preferred independence and a place in the European Union.


If they'd gone about it very differently, they might have had a chance of that in the medium term. Now, that just isn't going to happen as long as they behave the way they do about Ukrainian sovereign territory.


At no point in history has any public body in Russia had any more than a thin veneer of independence.

could be..or they are making trade item..they will say...we will recognize "illegal" Baltic state independence once for good ,in return of recognizing Crimea as part of Russia.in international politic scene you always have to have something to trade in negotiations.

They've already recognised it and have embassies there, which would scupper that idea - I suspect they're just being mischievous and intimidatory. I doubt it will have much effect.

I do think certain of the Baltic states could deal with their Russian-speaking minorities a bit better though.

I actually can't figure out why Russia tried the same thing in Donetsk as they did in Crimea. It worked in Crimea because the majority of the population didn't feel Ukrainian and didn't want much to do with Ukraine - and I suspect that Ukraine was also secretly relieved to get rid of a troublesome minority. It's pretty obvious that Putin can't lose face by letting the rebels lose in Donetsk, but he also can't win there without a blatant invasion.

Unlike Georgia and Moldova, it's also very obvious that if Russia lets up, Ukraine will throw everything at Donetsk. Neither side will keep to any ceasefire agreement, and Russia seems to be banking on Ukrainian bankruptcy to consolidate the area. Either way, it's hard to see how anyone could support Russian actions there.

It's worth pointing out that in the case of Poland, Russia has no history for trying to pick on people who are capable of fighting back. Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova - these are all very weak countries. I don't remember who said it, but some Latvian made it clear that if any little green men turn up, they can expect to get shot.

So basically an investigation against the people of the Baltic countries. Have you forgotten the "Singing Revolution"? It was the people of the Baltic countries that wanted independence. So if this investigation is, as you say, about finding the people responsible for the breakup of the Soviet Union, they will have to investigate each and every single non-ethnic Russian person who at the time lived in one of the three Baltic countries.

The Soviet Union was a forced Union, people wanted out. Unlike the EU for example where countries actually want to join.

Come on gregy, at least for once be realistic.


Exactly! The only thing that's independent is the opposition and they either very independently land in jail or swiftly disappear.

No, to be fair - there was the very famous incident in 1993 when Yeltsin sent the troops into the Supreme Soviet. That was probably the end of any hope of Russian independence in the institutions - throughout 92 and early 93, it was obvious that there was a real mood within Russia for autonomy and change.

ohhhhh...more like people in russia opposition camps..SU collapse ment poverty for many,especially in yeltsin times..it could be just political move to find out those responsible for "illega;" dismembering and then portray them as criminals.

SU times are remembered well by many people,voters

The only people who wish for the Soviet Union back are the people who are barely able to feed their families. Of course they remember how great it was to work for Lada in Togliatti without having to worry about their jobs and families.

Fact of the matter is though that their Lord Putin has failed to develop the country in a way that would allow them to still have stable jobs and a decent enough income to put food on the table.

Of course, it is not Russia's or Putin's fault that most people outside of Moscow or St. Petersburg have to turn every Kopek twice before they spend it. It is the evil west that is to blame for their misery and the breakup of the Soviet Union.

I am from East Germany, and trust me gregy, as much as I would agree on certain aspects that "not everything was bad", keeping human beings locked in, under constant surveillance is something that nobody wants to have back unless the leadership of their country is unable to look after all it's citizens which Putin clearly isn't and has absolutely no intention of doing.

Why do you think Russian state media needs to remind people time and time again of the "Great Patriotic War" and the great achievements of the Soviet Union? Because that's the only thing a lot of people have left to believe in simply because nobody in the Kremlin gives a f**k if a babushka in Omsk has enough coal to heat her tiny flat during the next winter. Instead, they ram the good old times down people's throats until they actually believe that only the west is to blame for their misery.

People will go with whatever suits their situation, its all about looking after number one right? I know many people who prefer the concept of communism and socialism. Capitalism works for people who are successful within that system, its basically a game of death monopoly. Communism as corrupt as it may have been at least didn't discriminate among the masses. My Polish wifes late mother preferred communism...and i'll tell you what once we've witnessed a cataclysmic environmental event caused by the endless consumption associated with capitalism that shakes every human being on this ******* planet we'll all be begging for socialism....by then it may well be too late.


So you agree with socialism in its concept?

Yes they do but you are missing the point. If the government does not do anything for it's people outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg apart from ramming the same old propaganda down their throats then their choices are fairly limited. In fact, a lot of them wouldn't have travelled further than the borders of their oblast and don't know any better.

Hardly something you could call a life and not even worth trying to justify with "whatever suits their situation". You need to travel to Russia and see it for yourself. As a country, I like Russia. Absolutely beautiful. The propaganda machine which is visible literally at every street corner is sickening though.

I don't see much difference in what you've described above regarding Russian propaganda and other propaganda campaigns around the world, they all basically serve the same function and that is to keep the elite firmly in their positions of power.

I certainly don't need to goto Russia to witness it.


all our choices are limited.

Yes you do otherwise you will not be able to understand it.

Eh! you're claiming i need to visit a certain place to understand basic human behaviour?

I've seen the same thing in L'viv a few years ago - the utter onslaught of Yankovych propaganda was unbelievable. His face was everywhere, and there were adverts for the Party of Regions everywhere. And this was in L'viv, which was absolutely against PR!

i think you too young to understand..i lived in commie time and i can understand why many people miss it..sure it was tough but it was sense of unity and solidarity..people were more social..maybe it was because there were no 500 chanels in tV and pc games so people ,kids, would meet and socialize more.or maybe cus everyone was **** poor...fok knows..but it was sense of security,even if wages were low.free healtcare,accomodation,job for everyone..little crime.ect..not everything is about money,,maybe for you