Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

What? So did you or did you not educate yourself on the timeline of events of Euromaidan? Or do you just want to continue quoting some random people without knowing what actually happened?

Jolly, i am just a simple man. i`m not a politician. You yourself aren`t one (as if?). Don`t pressure me to `educate` myself on politics, that old k***a. i even suggest you to also leave that k***etina. Nobody won battle with her. People in Serbia have saying: ``You can beat (kill) k***a but you won`t beat (kill) devil in her.``

So instead to force yourself in suffering, it is much better to look what sane people of Europe and Slavic world have to say about topic. Franco Frattini, Vaclav Klaus and some other politicians are ok to me. Read and listen them. Don`t listen Obama, Putin, Blair, Clinton (BDW, known as Klitor-man in my country; imagine).

All in all, relax Jolly, relax.

Well I am sure Putin is listening as America has knocked the price of oil down to $38 a barrel.
Bet he wishes he would have never pulled his Ukraine endeavor.
America has him by the nuts collapsing oil prices and with China's last week's market crash for no apparent reason other than the tightening of Putin nut sack a little tighter.

Meanwhile the Russian people suffer because of Putin's aggression and America's greed.
The last time oil was at $38 a barrel gas was .83 cents a gallon in the U.S. yet today it is at over $2.00 a gallon.

Greed, f*cking GREED.
And it's all going to come to a head when the U.S. starts bombing the nuclear plants in Iran after the U.S. rejects the nuclear plan with Iran.

The next Republican president is going to tell Iran that America is done playing games.
Russia having an alliance with Iran and Poland having an alliance with he U.S...............well you do the math.


I wouldn't get to relaxed Crow as the fireworks aren't far off.

Looks like Poland's continuing to do the decent thing and aid the Kiev government in their struggles:


thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/220256,Poland-confirms-EUR-100-million-loan-for-Ukraine

It will help exports in PL too, useful given Putin's behaviour.

Jon, what exactly is the 'decent thing' to do for Poland in the Ukraine crisis?

Surely the quote and link explain Poland's latest move.

Poland should have neutral stance on everything what`s now going on in Ukraine. Behavior of Poland`s regime truly damaging Serbian efforts to contribute to the security of Polish eastern borders, via their enormous influence on Russians (who are aware of deep Serbian feelings for Poles). Seams that regime in Poland just decided to play on conflicting policy with Russia, just to ensure all eventual NATO and EU manipulations with Poland and Poles.

Serbia should finally get rid of its anti-NATO prejudice and realise that the Alliance is the protector and saviour of Europe. Serbia should also use its influence to convince Russia that NATO is a strictly defensive alliance. Russia shouldn't oppose missile shields unless it is planning to fire missiles at Poland and other European countries. Let Serbia civilise the Byzantine-Mongolian barbarians and persuade them to pull their arms nad troops out of Ukraine. The Serbian persident might even earn a Nobel Peace Prize.

Crowie, Serbia is irrelevant to the issue. 'Deep Serbian feelings' are beyond irrelevant. Poland is doing the right thing by supporting their westward-looking neighbour, building up mutually beneficent trade links between Ukraine and both Poland and the rest of the EU as well as being resilient towards their common enemy (and the enemy of the free world), Russia.

Eh? Who's willing to attack Germany? Or Norway? Or Greece? (I mean except German banksters)


Ukraine is bankrupt, what kind of benefit do you think Europe and Poland can get from it?
The enemy of the free world? That term was used during the Cold War era, it's not relevant anymore.
Many 'normal' states (that you would consider 'free world' states) do not see Russia as a common enemy. It's time to move on with that old vision of 'bloody Russia'. The world has changed.

Having a less bankrupt neighbour is a pretty big benefit. And if you read the article, some of the funding is for them to buy Polish products.


sadly it's becoming more and more relevant as Russia slides once again towards being a one-party state that is flexing its muscles geopolitically. And their invasion of Ukrainian sovereign territory and the ongoing war is a smoking gun.

Serbian interests dictate that peace and elementary normal relationship between Poland and Russia must exist. Penis in the eye of anybody who oppose to these Serbian demands.

For Ukraine, not for Poland.


How to take advantage of a broken country. Well, that's the game I guess.


I must say I'm a bit disappointed. I thought you'd have a little more hindsight on that subject.
You can't compare Russia to Britain or even the US. It's a huge country, with many different people cohabiting, and a difficult history (especially in the 20th century). The leader of such a country has to be authoritarian, at least a little. Plus, Russia has everything to be America's geopolitical rival. That's why America does everything to 'contain' it, at least politically, if not military.

As to the Ukraine crisis, one must be naive to (still) believe Russia is the only one to blame.

Giving aid money, most of it unconditional and the rest for mutual benefit is a loose definition of 'taking advantage'. Do you think they should have kept the money and not helped their neighbour?


And this is the problem. Upper Volta with the H bomb as someone once said. To be kept at arms length and a country that has never, ever acted in Poland's best interests.


Very wise too. A country founded on democracy with a healthy liberal tradition would do very well to unite with other free countries to, as you say 'contain' a threat.


They are the only one to blame. Nobody else invaded, nobody else annexed the Crimea, nobody else blocked them developing closer links with the EU and NATO, nobody else consistently worked for two decades towards destabilising Ukraine.

They shouldn't have contributed to the mess in the first place.


India and Turkey have never acted in Poland's best interests either. Why not 'contain' them too?


It's 2015, Jon, time to leave those silly ideologies where they belong (in the past). Btw, America is more an oligarchy than a democracy, to be honest.

As to the healthy liberal tradition, tell that to the tens of millions of American poors.


Hillary, is that you?... And now you're going to compare Putin with Hitler, aren't you? I've heard that already.
Crimea is a strategic point for Russia. Any country in the world (and especially the US) would have done the same to secure it. With more violence and bloodshed maybe.

Nobody else worked for two decades towards destabilising Ukraine? You couldn't be more wrong. Ever heard of miss Nuland? She said the US have been investing billions of dollars in Ukraine since the 1990's for something like 'democracy' or whatever.

WTF? Poland has been a model of diplomacy!


They aren't a threat. Russia is.


You think democracy is a 'silly ideology'? Perhaps the Putinists would agree with you. In Poland they wouldn't...


In what way is promoting democracy in a European country that wants it 'destabilisation'?

Anyone would think you favoured Russia in this conflict...

oh, i am not, i am not.

i exactly know where this all around us leads. But i am not ready for events, yet. Right now i have 1/2 perfected plan B (financially, in hardware and mentally), just in case. i hope i would have enough time. if not, well, nothings perfect. It would make things more interesting.

The Czech Republic has been more a model of diplomacy than Poland. Poland is all about that evil Russia that wants to invade us. Poland is not objective, because it's too emotional on the subject. Old fears rushing back.

I often read Polish media. And it would be funny if there weren't people fighting and dying in Ukraine.


Why is Russia a threat? Because America said so? Russia is a 'threat' for America's foreign policy. That's it. It's not a threat for Europe. It's not a threat for Japan, Australia, or the Barbados.


Kind of. It is silly tho when someone decides to impose it to others. Same with liberalism. Or communism. (now you can't say I'm a commie ;))


There are magical words that instantly short-circuit any kind of deeper reflection or critism. They are especially common in advertisement, for they produce a strong emotional reaction for the viewer/consumer. 'Democracy' is one of these magical words (in the Western world at least). As are 'freedom', 'happiness', etc. If you know how to make a clever use of the word 'democracy', you can do pretty much anything, including coups and wars.

'Promoting democracy' in Ukraine was actually secretly funding any opposition party who would support the political line/ideology of the funders (the West). This is what we call interfering.

I wonder what would happen if Russia or China was funding a political party in America. I guess 'we' (US+EU) would introduce sanctions against Russia/China, for meddling into the internal affairs of a sovereign state.


Not that I care much about what people think, but if it can help you feel better, I'd say I'm neutral. I'd say both sides (the West and Russia) are involved in the crisis, and they should sit and discuss altogether (with Ukraine of course).

Russia is a threat to Ukraine and all former Soviet-bloc countries, even those that don't realis it or like the Czechs and Hungarians who brown-nose the Kremlin for eocnomic gain. All in all, Russia is a threat to the world economic and poltical order. Even now it is sending troops to Syria and denying it, just like it denied the "little green men" who carried out the Anschluß in Crimea.

They are definately a threat to all neighbours. Definately a threat to the other countries you mentioned as far as australia goes they have already shot down and killed ozzies in the ukraine in that plane and they are guilty as hell. Basically they are a waste of oxygen.

What is the world economic and political order? The one where America rules and abuses all other nations? That's your order? If that's what you meant, I'm thankful for Russia to come and mess around a little bit.


No it's not denying it.


Can you people really hear yourself talking? Can you really believe all the stuff you say? I'm amazed by so much 'stubborness' and naivety.

Why on Earth would Russia shoot down a plane full of civilians? Are you saying they're completely stupid?

That's exactly what the military-industrial complex would have us believe. I would argue Russia today more than ever before serves as a guarantor of stability in the region against Islamic radicals in its vast frontier in Asia. Therefore, by trying to up weaken Russia the West is further jeopardising it's security in the geopolitical puzzle...

Perhaps because Russia has a consistent track record of threatening Poland and neighbouring states.


Yes - an ideal to be aspired to and one that Russia scorns.


No harm in funding democratic movements. Subverting democracy and promoting terrorism, as Russia has done, invading Ukranian sovereign territory and jailing opposition politicians ia a whole different ball game, no?

Yes polson I believe they are utterly stupid.

Not only them. People on the ground who have been displaced also feel Russia to be a threat.


You have a point there, but I believe Russia is itself responsible for its present problems.


I'm sure they did not take that decision at the highest levels. It is much more likely to have been human error.


It must be comforting to believe that you alone know the truth of what has happened, but time will tell.

France fought Britain and Germany quite a few times too, but we're done now, aren't we?
Do you really think Russia is interested in invading Poland now? Poland has nothing. No oil, no gas, and it belongs to the EU+NATO. Really, tell me why would Russian leaders be stupid enough to attack Poland? Or Lithuania? Or Latvia? Or Estonia?


Are you playing naive on purpose or you really don't want to understand what I'm saying? This is not about 'democracy' per se.


I don't think they are stupid. But, as we say in French, they see the mote in the other's eye but not the beam in their own ;)

Or they're just pretending.


Possibly, yes. But if it was them (the rebels), I'm sure the West would have brought tons of evidence. Instead, we have a strange silence. And it's been more than a year.


No-one knows the truth. We can only try to get as close as possible. But as someone once said: the first casualty when war comes is truth.

I'm not even sure that time will actually tell.

Polson, France kept losing and is no longer a threat. Russia is very much a threat. And at least France has a form of democracy and no longer tries to impose it on others. Russia isn't interested in an ideal any more and even in the days of the Soviet Union, the dogmatic politics was secondary to Russia's national interest.

Russia isn't interested in invading Poland because we have NATO and the EU. They have however invaded a neighbouring state and certainly believe Poland and Central Europe should be within their sphere of influence. It's too ambitious for the free world to crush Russian aspirations, however the consensus within Poland is that they should be thwarted at all costs.

About democracy, this is something cherished by both Poland and Ukraine - and no harm at all in promoting it in Ukraine. There is every reason to do so when the alternative is to suffer under the Russian yoke.

Russia being (only) interested in Russia's national interest sounds normal. I wish other countries could do the same.
European countries don't defend their national interests by imposing sanctions against Russia.
If they wanted to defend their own interests, they would stop with those silly sanctions and start talking.


"Certainly" believe? That's not very objective. That's your fear talking. Plus, Poland and Central Europe have been looking towards the West for too long, and their anti-Russian sentiments are too strong.


Ok, since you don't want to understand, I'll have to explain. This is not about 'promoting democracy', it's about secretly financing and supporting political movements under the cover of 'democracy', in order to provoque a regime change, so that the new puppet regime accepts anything that comes from the West: austerity (IMF), economic 'reforms', i tutti quanti. The problem would still be the same for the people of Ukraine: oligarchs and foreign hands controlling the economy. There's no democracy. It's all about free market and geopolitics. Governments need to tell us, peoples of the world, that they fight for democracy. So that we think that all this mess is for the good cause. But it's not. Not the cause(s) we cherish.

We should be thankful to western Europe and USA. In their greed, in attempt to s**** Slavs (ALL SLAVS!), they actually helped creation of sustainable future border between future Intermarium and Eurasian Union.

ahahah hahahahah hahahahah hahahahahah hahahahahha hahahahahahha

Well, God gave a lot of to Anglos. But above everything, stupidity

"Russia is very much a threat."
Only to the Anglo world which wants to control the world. Not to anyone else in Europe including Poland. (current polish politician actions dont help though but fuel the anger).

"Russia being (only) interested in Russia's national interest sounds normal. I wish other countries could do the same.
European countries don't defend their national interests by imposing sanctions against Russia."

I dont normally agree with Polson but this is correct.

"Certainly" believe? That's not very objective. That's your fear talking. Plus, Poland and Central Europe have been looking towards the West for too long, and their anti-Russian sentiments are too strong.

If they wanted to defend their own interests, they would stop with those silly sanctions and start talking."

Precisely. The West (i.e. US/UK/maybe Germany) want to use Poland as a wall against Russia. Should a war happen Poland would suffer most while the bankers and politicians in the West would get rich. The US neocons want to push for conflict everywhere for profit and for full spectrum dominance.

Europe should tell the US to mind its own business. Europe wants no war and ALL of Europe should be talking with Poland and Russia included.

Poland should have good relations with all its neighbours not be trying to please US and UK which are ocean and continent away.