Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

It's amazing how hard the west tries to show that Russian government is worse than the Ukrainian one. In this case, it is not. Ukrainian government has flailed spectacularly.

The average person just wants a stable government, and no fighting. The really don't give a sht what random bucket is it from.

Yes that's how you die getting burnt alive when your in a closed space. you die from the carbon monoxide but your getting burnt at the same time(32 died this way), some were very desperate and tried to jump out the second floor but were greeted with getting beaten with chains and batons etc, I think 8 people died this way.

Yes, earlier classes lead to this, I am guessing the pro Ukrainians wanted revenge and then did this?


Now that the Kiev government is launching counter-terrorism operations you can count on it that its much higher then 30% now, and that 3 provinces are planning to succeed from Kiev in two weeks time, honestly look at the videos on the ground. Its funny that the locals are even taking pictures with the pro Russian militants, and are protesting against the government forces, not the other way around.


Yes, there wouldn't be this mess if right sector never over-through the president, they should of waited to the next elections. Now it's only chaos.

Remember the people in Eastern Ukraine main goal is to leave Kiev in anyway possible, even if that means joining Russia

Anyone affected by ' counter-terrorism operations' were never likely to be pro-Ukranian would they?

People showing pro-Ukranian tendencies are threatened or attacked. They are keeping their head down.

This seems to be a fairly accurate of what may have happened -

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/what-really-happened-in-odessa-a-step-by-step-reconstruction-of-a-tragedy-that-killed-46-people-video-346192.html

What did the last presidential election say? It doesn't matter because he was overthrown and replaced by someone who got 1% in the same poll. The Coup leaders have no mandate to sign agreements with the IMF or anyone else, they are an illegitimate junta.

It's fiction that the anti coup people are anti Ukraine they are anti extreme nationalist, Fascist and anti IMF imposed austerity.

Peterweg their are two sides to this coin, that's what makes this crisis so tricky. I think when you label pro Russians terrorist its a provocation, you are looking for a armed conflict. Armed militia's that kill innocent people are terrorists, but this also go's for right sector. Right sector are also terrorists and they started this whole conflict.

Here's a report from a different source stating right sector were the provocateurs, I can see both sides have a political agenda for this. But in the end of the day leaving politics aside, people were murdered that day. I think this whole thing is silly.

en.itar-tass.com/world/730308

youtube.com/watch?v=jNDy80-cc_E
On the morning of May 1, a pro-Russia militia guard post on the outskirts of Krasnoarmeysk was attacked by Ukrainian forces (reportedly Right Sector members) - taking 11 local militia men with them.

Not just armed conflicts, but also kidnappings too on both sides.

Pweg
Any chance of providing some reasons that the people murdered deserved to be murdered?

Russia is at war with Ukraine, any invading forces can be killed in self defense.


Another invented story by Russia


Different media, same propaganda source: Russia


The next election is in three weeks. Russia will try prevent (through violence) this so it and you can keep using this as an excuse.

That is just silly boy talk.

Go into the middle of Sloviansk and call them silly boys.

Your excuse for murder is silly boy talk perhaps you have read too many war comics.

Pweg that story came from Vice news and has nothing to do with Russia, check Vice news out if you don't believe. They seem the least biased but they mostly report for western media interests though. right sector is real, they aren't made up and they have 1000's of trained radical militants which some are currently operating in Donbass to cause trouble.

However the one about the Odessa massacre, I think the truth lies in between the two stories. The part about right sector radicals trying to keep peace stated in Kiyvpost is just ridiculous.

Local support for the pro-Russia militia is strong and many in Sloviansk and surrounding villages see the Ukrainian army as an invading rather than liberating force.

youtube.com/watch?v=nN1cobPNemE
news.vice.com/article/eastern-ukraine-is-on-the-cusp-of-descending-into-brutal-street-warfare

Its critical to note that the most riches provinces of Ukraine are in the east and the most backward are in the west. Still the Donbass militia want's Independence within 2 weeks time so that's why we see such an desperate attack by government forces to reclaim these territories, but this makes Russia lose it's nerves and also the Donbass citizens are getting very angry too. I think about half of the people of Donbass don't care if they belong to Russia or Ukraine while 30% show strong pro Russia tendencies.but now with the government responding with force many of these neutrals might switch sides. I think Kiev needs to give more consideration to Donbass, they want something completely different from Kiev so it's unfair to force them into something they don't want. but on the other hand they are the backbone to the economy of Ukraine, so they cant just let them go without crippling the economy of Ukraine.

So should Ukraine be federalized? Should Donbass become independent, Russia or stay with Ukraine? Should government take control over the area by force or negotiations? What will be done about right sector, should the government of Ukraine support them or condemn them? Or should everything be left on hold until the new elections for any legitimate discussions to be made?

Ukrainian right sektor shooting down people trying escape fire in Odessa.bet there were russian specnaz according to Awakow

this guy name is mykola,is one of right sector"pro European" democracy and freedom and tolerance fighter.

scumbag ****.
time for Russia to clean this Nazi garbage

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Odessa. A wall in Trade Union building.

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Don't worry these punks are going to get put on the terrorism list.
novinite.com/articles/160330/European+Parliament+Mulls+Putting+Right+Sector+on+Terrorism+List

Read this to see what they did
veteranstoday.com/2014/05/05/kiev-and-right-sector-kristallnacht-odessa-extreme-graphics
Donbass militia, although an armed group are rebels which are labeled terrorist's by the Ukrainian government
Right sector are Neo-Nazi terrorist's working with the Ukrainian government.

I hate it when people call pro-Russians terrorist's because of the Donbass militia, That's like calling all pro-Ukrainians terrorist because of right sector.

As a Pole, I will not forgive Odessa from these Banderite thugs.

No chance, right Sector have been largely incorporated into the new force helpfully called Storm. British TV has this evening broadcast this new storm force shooting to disperse unarmed protesters and beating unarmed middle aged men. These Nazis are doing Putin's work for him, they hate Russian speakers.

Is this the 800 trained radical militants from right sector operating in Donbass? Can I have the link?

Revolts of working class in south east Ukraine over Odessa
youtube.com/watch?v=5JfjbxMrqFA

rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/roger-annis/2014/05/two-reports-on-working-class-revolt-eastern-ukraine

And which Nazis would those be Barney? The same Nazis who you claimed are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education?


That would be a pretty impressive shot, Barney. The fire that killed those people broke out on the third floor: you fancy your chances of getting a petrol bomb through a third-floor window? I certainly wouldn't fancy my chances of doing that even in the best of circumstances, I'd be too worried about missing the window and thus being burned by flaming petrol that would cascade down on me. But you want us to believe that not only did somebody try to get a petrol bomb through a third-floor window while the people inside the building and on top of the roof are throwing petrol bombs and shooting down at people, but that such a person managed to get their petrol bomb through a third-floor window? Really?

Isn't it rather more likely that the fire on the top floors of the building was started accidentally by people inside the building? That is what eyewitnesses say they saw and what numerous independent media sources are reporting.

Or do you mean that the Nazis were the ones inside the building shooting and throwing bombs down on the crowd? I suppose that they is possible, given how those people were about as 'Nazi' as the people who you claimed are Neo-nazis in control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education.

And the "Special forces" sent by the founder of the Ukrainian Nazi Party to Odessa just before the mass murders.

Arsen Avakov founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party? That is interesting, I thought that he was a member of the Fatherland party. Could you perhaps tell us when he founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party? I thought that he was a fairly well respected banker, engineer and politician, but now you tell us that he's a former Nazi. I'm very surprised to learn that and very much look forward to you providing some sources which support your claim.


Are these the forces and the man you refer to?


time.com/87043/ukraine-odessa-police-violence/

But that article seems to say that the special forces unit was sent to Odessa after the deaths and you claim that the unit was there before. Hmm, maybe the source is wrong and you are right.


todayonline.com/world/europe/ukraine-drafts-special-forces-after-outrageous-police-failure


themoscowtimes.com/business/article/ukraine-government-creates-new-special-forces-unit-to-control-odessa/499462.html


reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA400LI20140505


latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-wn-ukraine-russia-east-offensive-20140505-story.html

Oh, so it seems the source was right and you were 'mistaken'.

Never mind, let's move on from that and talk about the sources which you are going to provide us which support your claim that Arsen Avakov founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party. I can't wait to see those!


That's an interesting thing to claim. Could you perhaps give us some sources which confirm your claims? I thought that the current acting president of Ukraine is Oleksandr Turchynov and that he didn't get 1% in the last presidental election, because he didn't stand in that election. I do look forward to reading the sources you give us which support your claim that Oleksandr Turchynov got 1% in the 2010 presidential election.

this is true "Only in a single room in a five-storey building with ceilings over 3 meters high had fire visible from outside", but according to reports the pro Russian protesters did not have time to make the Molotov's cocktails

Odd?
I'm just going to leave this here......
ersieesist.livejournal.com/813.html

Some scary photos from Odessa...

ersieesist.livejournal.com/813.html

you might find this site also useful
youtube.com/watch?v=NKuDzXAgdf4
scgnews.com/odessa-massacre-evidence-the-mainstream-media-wont-show-you-warning-disturbing-footage

Nazi Criminal Kievian junta sent troops to kill civilians during victory parade in Mariupol

those scum in KIEV should face Nuremberg trial.When Yanukovicz sent unarmed Berkut to Majdan,he was labeled criminal. Avakov scum sending tanks and not a single condemnation from world leaders

Madness

Hi Gregy. For some reason Barney doesn't want to support his claims, perhaps you could do that for him?

member of Donbass government with clear sign of torture while under custody.
According to sum idiots here he probably slash himself,like those ppl in Odessa who rape,shot strangled and burn themself

They are indeed scary it's what insane nazi excusing scum like to look at.

its obvious and clear for every human being with at least a bit of decency and honesty.it will never be clear for any nazi supporting scum

its fact.this is fascist junta and even they are not trying to hide it

Odessa, 3 may, proUkranian mob is storming TradeUnions Building, before big fire in it.
So mob was inside the building already BEFORE the fire.

youtube.com/watch?v=igTd-QBe8w4

Given that you have again brought up Nazis, perhaps you could go into detail about your claim that the current Ukrainian Interior minister, Arsen Avakov, founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party? Surely you weren't just lying when you said that, were you?


There does seem to be a fair amount of confusion about the exact timeline in Odessa. For example, Barney is claiming that the Ukrainian Interior minister sent special police forces to the city and they arrived before the deaths but the minister himself (and the world's media) say that those special police forces were sent to Odessa as a response to the deaths. I wonder who might be telling the truth there.

some idiots,including Kiev criminal Nazi junta seems to forget that this is smart phone era,and its not that easy to sell BS to ppl anymore.no,i don't believe a single word form those scumbags as i never in my life heard so many obvious lies coming from so high officials.its worst than some banana republic propaganda.they seems to think people are idiots.

no Harry.those ppl in Odessa didn't kill and rape them self as you and other nazi supporters wants us to believe

Do you mean the government which was elected by the same parliament which was elected in the Ukrainian parliamentary elections of 2012? Could you perhaps go into detail about what makes them a "criminal Nazi junta"? Do you mean that the people of Ukraine elected a parliament of criminal Nazis? How can they be a junta when they were actually elected? Does the truth utterly baffle you?


Do feel free to quote some of those. I am more than happy to quote some of the obvious lies which have been told here about those officials. For example:

current Ukrainian Interior minister, Arsen Avakov, founded the Ukrainian Nazi Party;
acting president Oleksandr Turchynov got 1% in the 2010 presidential election;
current Ukrainian Interior minister, Arsen Avakov, sent special police forces to Odessa before the deaths there;
Neo-nazis in control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education.

I could go on.


Such a pity that you are not interested in finding out who did kill them. And your accusations of rape are based on the results of what tests?


Interesting to see that you know you will lose a discussion about facts and so resort to insults and lies.