Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

forgot to mention Polish snipers target practicing on crusified babies, getting rusty greggy?


handed over after 5 days.... 5 days greggy after massive international pressure and not without Russian experts having a 'look' at them first... 5 days...

thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/07/22/Face-to-face-with-Ukraine-conflict-Civilians-in-Donetsk-asked-to-calm-down-amid-gunfire

theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/ukrainian-forces-assault-separatist-donetsk-mh17-torez

look like your lies aboUt mistreating bodies and bad handling of them again being debunked as LIES!!!!!!!!!

themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/dutch-expert-ukraine-body-recovery-team-for-mh17-crash-did-a-hell-of-a-job

Duch experts prising DLR team

why black boxes not in Moscow?lairs?
why ukra army bombing investigators?
2 days media reported about rude rebels behavior towards investigators but now bombing them By Ukra army is OK?
2 days there been reports about mishandling bodies-all turn as Kiev lies.
why Kiev and western media reporting "tossing and stealing bear killed in Boeing crash,showing rebels holding it."
in reality rebel show it and pay respect by crossing himself.
why all those Lies???????
if truth is on your side,why need so much hypocrisy and lies?


biznes.onet.pl/oszusci-zarabiaja-na-katastrofie-malezyjskiego-sam,18497,5648590,news-detal

why saying that families of dead people and their accounts being robbed by rebels??and losing money from stolen unauthorised used cards
we know bank doesnt charge and pay money back if card is used without owner authorization.
all lies for idiots!!!!

rebels looting corpses....at least according to Kiev:
youtube.com/watch?v=Ilt8DLuu5Og#t=22\

guess what?? Lie again

today reports from Kiev about suicide bomber attack by rebels.
how coincident,yesterday UN refused to put DLR into terrorist organisation list,demanded by Yatseniuk. comedy gold.

listen to this little Goebbels,asked 4 times why Ukrainian army resumed ATO in Doneck where investigators arrived and suppose to be local ceasefire for time of investigation,he refused to answer 4 times.

youtube.com/watch?v=Mw5ER7DZhTw

while his generals blame "self-organised group" of partisans for bombing Doneck.

theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/21/ukrainian-forces-assault-separatist-donetsk-mh17-torez

this is not even funny..its grotesque

6 posts by gregy741 in a row.

gregy741 I suggest to go there and join the rebels. It seams that your heart and soul belongs right there.

you sound like Franz Kafka

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long it agrees with mine"

i have had a good run and you destroyed it.
am not joining anyone am not capable to kill man,i don't have banderist mindset,and my heart and soul is with ppl who dont lie manipulate and use double standards to hide their criminal actions.

over thousand civilians killed in e.Ukraine.nobody reports this

In a statement cited in media reports, Andrei Lysenko, spokesperson for the National Security and Defense Council, said that the Ministry of Defense had seized insurgent Grad launchers and had determined that they had been used to shell Stanitsya-Luganskaya (Luhanskaya), and firmly denied that Ukrainian forces' artillery or aviation had been used to attack this village.

Human Rights Watch's research in Luhanskaya and Kondrashevka revealed no evidence of Grad use in the villages and strongly indicated that aviation attacks had taken place on the villages. Sixteen local residents of these two villages interviewed by Human Rights Watch described hearing the noise of a plane engine, and several also said they saw the actual aircraft in the sky. Multiple shell entry points, which were also examined by Human Rights Watch, suggest airstrikes as they were approximately two meters in diameter. Human Rights Watch also collected some unidentified explosive weapon fragments, though most of the fragments had been cleared away before our arrival. The fragments and the damage we documented are consistent with allegations of air strikes.

Human Rights Watch is not in a position to establish conclusively which side conducted the aerial strikes. However, Human Rights Watch's research suggest that Ukrainian forces may have conducted the strikes for the purpose of destroying an insurgent checkpoint/base located on a small hill around 800 meters from Moskva-Donbas Street, which was hit in Luhanskaya. The base is about three kilometers from Ostrovskaya Street, which was hit in neighboring Kondrashevka. During the three-and-a-half hours Human Rights Watch spent in each of these villages, our researchers did not see any insurgent presence, except at the checkpoint near Moskva-Donbas Street. Local residents interviewed by Human Rights Watch denied that insurgents were in the village on July 2 and denied the insurgents had maintained firing positions inside the villages.

HUMAN right WATCH FILLED WITH RUSSIAN AGENTS?MUST BE

One deputy said that civilian people die in east of Ukraine as result of Ukries army actions. After that he was beaten and thrown away from Parliment

youtube.com/watch?v=yqe8_P8ovFE

rightfully,only the "correct things" must be allowed to be said in Democratic Ukraine..we all know civilians in east Ukraine are happy,and awaiting liberation,no harm has ever been done on them by Ukrainian army,they burn blow and rape themselves.or by Russians of course

enjoy human right watch report:
hrw.org/news/2014/07/05/day-luhansk-war-s-crimes-horrors-and-uncertainties

guys you know whats the "funny" thing?
Kiev grounded all his military jets after Antonow went down on 15-th,but let civilians fly. isn't that hilarious?

One of the more outrageous conspiracy theories about the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 surfaced in the days following the destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 last week. The theory, which originated in Russia, holds that MH17 and MH370 are actually the same plane, and the U.S. military arranged for the second flight, filled with corpses, to be blown up over eastern Ukraine.

ibtimes.com/mh17-russian-media-why-kremlins-propaganda-machine-so-effective-1634864

Even with the understanding that most Russian television stations are controlled by the Kremlin, it can be difficult to fathom the type of media landscape described by articles like Ioffe's. In the United States, conspiracy theories typically run in opposition to the mainstream message (such as, the Twin Towers were destroyed by bombs, not planes). In Russia, it seems, the most extreme conspiracy theories about MH17 don't contradict the party line as much as they embellish the state-sanctioned message that Russia is either innocent or an intended victim (Russian news outlets have suggested Putin himself may have been the target). As Ioffe noted, the conspiracy theories "have become a kind of symbiotic feedback loop between state TV and the most inventive corners of the Internet," like News2.ru, which resembles Reddit.

"Meanwhile, U.S. military intelligence specialists remain firm in their assessment a Russian-made missile brought down the aircraft."
good one. made in Russia -Russians responsible.and i tho you said you have massive IQ

would you kindly ( at the peril of sounding like Harry ;) ) stop lying, I merely suggested your IQ is subpar, never once mentioned anything about mine. See, when you get too used to distorting facts while at the same time not sporting any scintillating intellect, as it is eveident in your case (not a suggestion, just an observation) you end up being this dull emotive geek clutching at any crackpot conspiricay straw in existence:

from the sam e article:

"People believe the Russian spin in one sense because there isn't any counter to it, but in another sense it's because they want to believe that we're back in an era of superpowers and Russia is one of those superpowers," Vdovichenko said. "The government is in some senses brainwashing, but they're not tying Russians' hands behind their back saying, 'You must believe this.' Russians want to believe it."

During seven decades of Soviet rule, tens of thousands of Russians -- particularly in the cities -- found ways to circulate information that was not approved by or was at odds with the stories being fed to them by the government press operation. It's unlikely that in this crisis, all Russians are unskeptically buying the Kremlin's line.

Still, both Ioffe and Vdovichenko said Russians are particularly inclined to resist a narrative generated or supported by the U.S. media.

That's the angle Pravda are pushing with this superb piece titled "MH 17: Some conclusions - Did NATO try to murder Putin?" english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-07-2014/128094-nato_putin-0


As Carl Bildt, the foreign minister of Sweden put it:


yalibnan.com/2014/07/18/flight-mh17-putins-credibility-lies-amid-wreckage
gregy seeks to support his Russian hero by playing a role in the disinformation campaign. He wants to be one of what Lenin supposedly called the 'useful idiots'. Of course by being so pro-Russian he washes away any possible last shreds of the possibility that he might be partly Polish.

yesterday UN show middle finger to ukra junta demanding to put separatist on terrorist list.
stupid junta and some junta high IQ fanboys here cannot grasp the simple concept that to be terrorist one must have commit act of terrorism intentionally and deliberately. misindentification and accidents doesnt count.

but this is logic that normally developed 12 years old boy is capable to grasp..seems too much for junta and its fanboys

can anyone explain to me,what democratic procedure is taking place here?

youtube.com/watch?v=yqe8_P8ovFE

again please show where I am exactly commenting on that piece of information about UN decision, where supposedly my intellectual struggle transpires... or were you just lying again?

SBU has proof of Putins involvements in crash:

Really? Got a source to back that or is it just another lie you think you can get away with telling here?
Amazingly enough, this account of yesterday's United Nations Security Council meeting makes no mention of your claim: news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/un-backs-aust-resolution-on-mh17-crash-20140722-3cbtv.html

Neither does this one: theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/mh17-australia-netherlands-pledge-bring-people-home
Neither does this one: latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-un-malaysia-airlines-resolution-20140721-story.html
Neither does this one: theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/mh17-un-backs-australian-resolution-demanding-access-to-crash-site?cmp=soc_568
Looks like you've been caught lying yet again gregy.


Good to see you're still lying about a democratically elected government led by a democratically elected president being a junta. Keep up the disinformation campaign your Kremlin masters know to be as effective as artillery barrages, they certainly need their useful idiots.

That will be those "subhuman" Russians........

Anyhow it reminds me of the massive propaganda drive the US and Britain launched when they lied about WMDs, a set of lies that allowed them to invade and occupy other countries while murdering muslims. Now that Britain and the US have solved the middle east problem there is no need for an enquiry.

Instead of repeating the same mistake perhaps its best to wait for an enquiry or we could believe the propaganda we want.

well through phone call.no official request tho
reuters.com/article/2014/07/19/us-ukraine-crisis-poroshenko-un-idUSKBN0FO0VP20140719

Harry can you explain to me,what democratic procedure is taking place here?guy said civilians are being killed by ukra army:

youtube.com/watch?v=yqe8_P8ovFE

It reminds me of the rather more recent claims about neo-nazis being in charge in Kiev, claims that "Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries".

Isn't it somewhat hypocritical of you to complain about other people lying more than a decade ago when you yourself have been caught repeatedly lying in this very thread? Doesn't being utterly hypocritical bother you at all?

It does, doesn't it? Nothing surprising as we are deling with a massive propaganda drive from Moscow....


and that will be those slightly soiled pants... or whatever it is you mean by that comment.. oh no wait I get it, so proud of myself (sry, wading in your and greg's stupidity does affect one) it's the Nazis coz as you say they're all nazis!! Yes yes, damn naive me, for moment I expected some sort of semblance of creativity from you - like I said it rubbs off.

I was asking you to give us a source for your lie that "yesterday UN show middle finger to ukra junta". You haven't given us one. Because as usual you are lying. The UN did no such thing, which is why the UN's own report makes no mention of it: un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=48318&Cr=ukraine&Cr1=#.U85c-vmSx8E

If anything international support for that listing is growing:


washingtonpost.com/world/europe/eu-foreign-ministers-confer-on-tougher-sanctions-against-russia/2014/07/22/05e1d794-1197-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html
Yet again you lie and yet again you get caught; when are you going to learn not to lie here, gregy?

not only,
they also explain him politely that his nazi **** is not gonna fly in UN,and that is UN office not some nazi gathering.also they tried to explain this fukwit meaning of terrorism and basic concept.but he couldn't get it,which i don't find surprising.so there middle finger followed

Instead of just trying to make your lies lesser lies by repeating them a thousand times, why don't you give us some sources which in any way support your lies? Surely you can find something on one of the ultra-reliable Russian media sites, can't you?

Thats the point it seems that you choose the one true word while screaming witch at all others. There has not been such a propaganda war since Britain and the US were preparing to launch their wars of aggression.

Choosing to post a more than slightly dodgy opinion about Russians was not too smart.


I dont believe that I ever said all Ukrainians are Nazis (or quoted such an opinion) that is an accusation from a rather exotic poster who spent years lambasting Polonia as traitors to Poland. I said that the Nazi component in Kiev was doing the country no favours. It was only necessary to appoint Nazis because they provided the muscle in the Coup.

No one has explained why those naming a think tank after a Nazi etc should not be described as Nazi.

Of course feel free to believe in the one true path to austerity.

Why do you lie about what you said? You actually said "Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries"!


Would you care to link to that supposed accusation being made? Or is that claim just another of the lies which you tell to try to distract attention from the lies that you have already been caught telling here?

look, nazi demanded condemnation of terrorists instead he received:
"the crash of "Malaysia Airlines" aircraft shocking and unacceptable. He stressed the need to figure out all the circumstances of this tragedy"

in other words...first we find out then we condemn..we will see who is terrorist hehehe
middle finger...this is not punk club..go search delusional people somewhere else mr. president.
mfa.gov.ua/en/news-feeds/foreign-offices-news/25827-prezident-ukrajini-zaklikaje-oon-zasuditi-diji-teroristiv

I asked you to support your lies that the UN showed the "ukra junta" the "middle finger". You are refusing to do that and instead telling yet more lies.


Here in Poland we know who the terrorists are, as our Prime Minister has made crystal clear when speaking to the President of Ukraine. Tusk's exact words were:


prezident.gov.ua/en/news/30820.html

You carry on believing and spreading the lies of your glorious leader in the Kremlin; our Prime Minister has already said what we all think here.

and yet according to facts and truth(which are alien to you and Tusk for that matter) the only acts of terror and war crimes has been committed only by junta in this conflict.

odessa,mariupol,bombing park in lughansk,countless indiscriminate shelling of towns

Do you really think that anybody buys your lie about a democratically elected government led by a democratically elected president being a junta? Really? If not, why do you keep telling it? It yes, have you considered getting professional assistance?

Anyway, good to see our President calling it like it is:


thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/176847,Polish-President-MH17-crash-an-%E2%80%98unbelievable-and-shameful-act%E2%80%99

No doubt gregy will prefer to believe the man who he thinks he'd like to be his president (a delusion which shows that gregy knows as little about Russia as he does about Poland).

European countries are often said to be hesitant to challenge Vladimir Putin because of their economic ties to Russia. This is true, but those ties are a two-way street - it's because they exist that European sanctions against Russia sting much harder than similar American measures.

LONDON - Vladimir Putin thought he'd got away with murder. At least that was the conclusion of diplomats and security officials for eight years as Britain ignored demands for an inquiry into the assassination of a former KGB officer in Central London.

For at least one death, Russia's president will escape scrutiny no more. An public inquiry will be opened next week to examine whether the Russian state was behind the death of Litvinenko, a man who had previously accused the Kremlin of killing its own citizens and said he was investigating the death of the journalist Anna Politkovskaya.

Snowden escaped to Russia, not in USA, not in Britain.

What i want to tell you,... who knows what happened to Litvinenko. Maybe he failed to escape to Russia and so he died.

america doesn't see any evidence regarding Russia involvement into crash

all this technology ,satellites and they couldnt find no evidence,aside some pathetic videos on youtube.
another middle finger for nazi delusional maniacs and their lies were exposed.video with recorded separatist were debunked as being stitched,and images of suppose to be rebels BUK being removed to Russia as another fake,coming from video dated from march.

in the meantime,nazi apes discussing situation in Ukraine: youtube.com/watch?v=RvW2KzCpTHU

beside,some high officials and public people demanding USA to made satellite images public.as there is growing evidence of ukra army shoting down this plane.

250 Serbs come to help brutally attacked Doneck republic in the struggle for freedom and to fight off fascist criminals. heroes they are.they fight for the right cause not some kolomoyski filthy dollars like ukra thugs: kresy24.pl/54223/serbowie-ruszyli-na-pomoc-terrorystom/

geeezzzzzz guys look at this: Russian MOD conference:

they used Russians satellite images from Russian MOD conference as a "proof" rebels had BUK.i posted briefing from this conference before.
what a fokin lies after lies,not even attempt to make it even look credible.what a dailymail idiots

Some valid points from SadPole at pprune

All I am saying this whole thing with the BUK launcher on a truck is a red herring, designed to get everyone excited.

Either I am completely dense or these guys who fired BUK are. See what I mean.

Suppose that US is right that the missile was fired from around Snizhne. This is a good location for it from the rebels perspective. The biggest thing they have to worry about is successful resupply of gov troops (ammo, equipment or paratroopers) advancing near Sverdlovsk.

Suppose you are a rebel, you know you screwed up and you want to cover up.

- Why not dump the whole thing into a river or a lake, or blow it up and dump it? The damn thing is a tracked vehicle so all you have to worry about is not leaving a complete trail if you don't want it found.

- If you really feel you need to take it back (south) to Russia, then Snizne is only some 20 km from the border with Russia. No good road connects advanced gov positions along Russian border near Anvorosiivka, Sverdlovsk and the boonies you need to cross to get to Russia.

- You have a tracked vehicle, you don't even need a road. 20 minutes and you are in Russia.

- If gov troops are on the road you can drive through fields, its night, small chances they will be ready with anti-armor weapons to chase after you through the fields.

- But no - you decide to load the damn thing on a truck, thus depriving it of combat value and combat maneuverability - and without any escort drive it more than 100 km north to Luhansk - and place of very heavy concentration of gov troops. Why?

Conclusion. It is all BS. Some kid saw BUK being moved around and decided he figured it out. Perhaps someone purposely moved them around to add confusion and even maybe ditched one of the missiles to get onlookers (and sat surveillance analyzers) excited. Then you "get caught" and produce the truck and the launcher that was on it and show it to be some old stripped down junk incapable of getting off the truck and firing. You were just trying to prevent those other bad guys from having it for missiles, and other spare parts, blah, blah. Falsely accused, blah blah. Meanwhile, the real thing went the other way.

Critical at this point where was the damn thing really fired from? If I were on the ground I would drive around looking for fresh armored vehicle tracks.

Now - I am not saying these idiots were all that smart. I am saying - don't expect them to be completely stupid.

for me shocking thing is,you even attempting to discuss this story in a manner like there is any case to discuss.. don't get me wrong,but those evidences from ukra are presented by APES,the ones they have generals who claim that Russian troops shelling them from mortars attached in small ships in azov sea.

any attempts to attach logic or reason to those peoples stupidity is only elevating them.you dont talk merit with those Apes,dont give them any shadow of the possibility that what they claim could be any chances of truth in this.

those people claim ppl burn,rape themselves,bomb themselves,
you are discussing some accusation that comes from offices of THOSE people, here:

youtube.com/watch?v=RvW2KzCpTHU

what they claim can be only subject of pity

look SBU "evidence" that rebels buk shot down MH-17,Top image-moment Buk shot down plane.,and buk located in Torez at the day of the crash,second image

sbu.gov.ua/sbu/control/uk/publish/article?art_id=129099&cat_id=39574
one need only compare sky to see what those evidences are worth

sky was 80% cloudy on 17- july.
need to be an idiot to believe nazi Apes and their "proofs"

ohh..guys..its second round today!!! yesterday they beat guy for saying civilians die,not sure whats the issue today:
anyway...nazi Apes in action:

now i know why Klitschko joined Ukrainian politic