Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

It appears that they were saying that because it was true:


buzzfeed.com/mbvd/flight-mh17-victims-credit-cards-being-used-in-ukraine-famil

Yet again reality proves to be the exact opposite to gregy's lies. I wonder when he'll get tired of telling his lies.

what a mess! Ukrainian Prime Minister berates the current government for it's inability to pass new laws before handing in his resignation.

Frankly I'd prefer a mess to the calculating malice that the Kremlin shows.

is that deflection?

Hardly, since Russia are the prime movers in all this. The forthcoming elections will also show whether Ukraine is a young democracy or something closer to the Soviet old ways, a political culture that Moscow has never managed to get away from and doesn't seem to want to.

Sounds more like a very smart move by him, but then I actually read the article.


Very hard to disagree with him there.


So it looks very much like he's forcing further negotiations.

Hard to see why anybody would want to criticise somebody for doing what is best for Ukraine, unless of course that person has a racial bias against Ukrainians (perhaps due to what a grandparent told them about Ukrainians).

If this it to be believed and is genuine, a pro-terrorist girl who lives in Torez, Ukraine, is boasting about stealing mascara from an MH17 victim:

This must be one of the 'evidence' randomly chosen on social medias that the US claim to have to incriminate Putin and/or the separatists ('terrorists' as you call them).

I heard even some American secret service agencies are dubious about John Kerry's hasty accusations (towards -again- Putin and the separatists), despite a serious lack of evidence.

The famous American journalist Robert Parry, George Polk Award recipient, has shared his views about all this. And they happen to be quite different from what we're being told in the West (propaganda? Nooooo...)

You got a source for that? Or is it just yet more Russia Today bollocks?

consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/
Here's one that I just found (the whole article is interesting), and it says this:


Anyway, it's still too early to know what happened exactly. But it won't stop the US, their medias and ours to claim that they know who shot that plane.

Out of respect for the 298 innocents who died in that crash and their relatives, we owe them some decency. I think.


I've been wondering, why would you believe one propaganda more than another?

Why don't you give the link itself? Don't you want your readers to know that that site is little more than a blog and begs for donations from readers?

consortiumnews.com/about/


Tell you what, how about we credit the shoot-down of that plane to the people who boasted about shooting down that plane (until they knew what plane they had actually shot down), would that work for you?

There is no evidence for anything the US or Kiev has said if there was any evidence they would have published it. Facebook is not evidence.

combined with the fact that Ukrainian army in this conflict haven't used any independently operating surface to air missile batteries, seeing as the separatists don't have an air-fleet... but I otherwise I did enjoy reading the article, they crammed everything into it, including the claim the government in Kiev are neo-nazis... little too heavy-handed right there, completely shattering the notion of subtlety.. but hey

As usual you are lying: the terrorists posted boasts on social media about shooting down a plane before they found out what they had shot down.

Perhaps you were too busy lying about the Ukrainian government to notice that tiny detail.

And you know these facts from where?

Given that the terrorists have no aircraft, what exactly would the Ukrainians have to shoot at?

ah shucks you got me, but of course they were using some due to the overwhelming onslaught of pro-russian fighter jets...

I gave the link.


Harry, please. This is an independent media, which means it is not supported (financially) by any political party and/or industrials, and and/or powerful lobbies.


Erm, you got that from the Youtube video that was then proved to be a false one, made 22 hours before the crash?
And here's another curiosity: why would the separatists boast about shooting down that plane? Are they just stupid? They (or Putin) have nothing to win from that disaster, have they?

On the other hand, the Kiev government who is getting tired and see no end to that conflict would benefit a lot from that crash and its (media) repercussions in the Western world, like trying to get help (from NATO maybe?). Remember that before the conflict, Ukraine was bankrupt. Remember that a war costs a lot of money.

Anyway, just hypotheses.

that is funny

It's not a matter of trying to catch anyone out, you seem to forget that I oppose the partition of Ukraine, I would like to see it part of a prosperous Europe where the rule of law and human rights are respected.

I'm asking for your facts because it would be helpful. So far all that has been presented is rather hysterical conjecture and waffle tinged with decidedly xenophobic sentiment. But I understand that what you meant was that you don't have any facts.

No, but do feel free to keep up a policy of never telling the truth when you have an alternative.


They were boasting about shooting down what they thought was a Ukrainian army transporter plane. What was I just saying about a policy of never telling the truth when you have an alternative?

Here Private Eye nails it:

Yeah, in other words, I'm a liar. I heard that before. I'm always surprised to see that you seem to know everything better than anyone else. Are you in Ukraine? Are you a (neutral, professional) reporter in Donbass? Have you talked to the 'terrorists' you keep mentioning? No, you're just some guy in Poland or Britain. Let's face it, you have no truth, just an opinion, as I have mine, based on your readings and 'feelings' about the event.


Sorry, I missed your parentheses in your previous post. But it doesn't change much of what I think.
Apparently, they did shoot down a SU-25 of the Ukrainian army, right after the Malaysian plane crashed. And this could have led to the reaction you supposedly saw in a video.

Again, if by any chance, the Malaysian plane was shot down on purpose, then the Kiev government would have much more to gain than the separatists or Putin.

So you think it was just an accident?

This is such bollox, akin to saying that since the truth can always be perceived as someone else's opinion ergo there is no truth to be learned.

The truth is that immediately after the shoot-down, the terrorist leader boasted about his forces shooting down a large twin-engined transport plane. None of the lies by our resident Kremlin fanboys (and girl) can change that.

Igor Strelkov, the rebel commander many hold responsible for firing on MH17, is sending a thinly veiled warning to the Kremlin that he won't go down alone.

.....
An article published by Strelkov's adviser, Igor Druzd, on Wednesday laid out the case that Putin, today, is facing the same choice that ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych faced a few months ago: either send in the army and win control over the territories of Novorossiya in eastern Ukraine-or lose his presidency. "I hope that the Ukrainian tragedy will neither become the tragedy of Russia nor the personal tragedy of Putin," wrote Strelkov's adviser.

thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/25/putin-s-number-one-gunman-in-ukraine-warns-him-of-possible-defeat.html

Strelkov's mission in Ukraine, whoever gave it to him, has been bigger than just the defense of the DPR. He claims to be defending Putin's reputation and power in Russia, too. In an interview with The Daily Beast on Thursday, Druzd, the Strelkov adviser, spoke of the importance of the Russians coming to Donbass to prevent a revolution like Kiev's Maidan from spreading to Moscow.

that's seems to be the proof that the morons didn't target a civilian plane. They really thought they shot down military transport plane. Or, they saw it go down without knowing who shot it and wanted to take credit for it. it also disproves a theory that operating the BUK was that difficult. Whoever shot it, most probably didn't even have the radar support vehicle, or they would have known it was a civilian plane.

Are you shocked? History is a collection of biased 'truths'. We sometimes call them myths.


Who reported that? Are you 100% sure that this information is 100% reliable?


THIS is an interesting contribution.

the first mass grave has been found

Among the police, forensic experts, and journalists standing around the grave witnessing the exhumation, there were several local residents searching for loved ones who went missing when insurgent forces controlled Sloviansk. One woman said that insurgent forces had abducted her husband in May. She said that he called her on May 21 to say goodbye. He said that the insurgents were holding him and they would execute him in 15 minutes. The next day she identified his body in the morgue, but the insurgents refused to give her the body for burial. Another person standing around the burial site, a man in his thirties, said that he was looking for his friend who got into a fight on the street and was then picked up by the insurgents. Nobody has seen him since.

hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/dispatches-mass-grave-found-eastern-ukraine

Only a proper investigation can help to determine who the people are whose bodies were dug out from the mass grave today, and what happened to them. Independently, it is crucial to bring to light the abuses that happened in Sloviansk while it was under insurgent control.

So many people are escaping barbaric Ukraine to live in safety in Russia, shame on Ukraine

Szalawa, let us avoid to use word `Ukraine` in any insulting way. Ukraine has much bigger meaning. Ukrainians are themselves victims of their leadership deluded by Germanic ideology, what is imposed on them by EU and NATO leading powers, while Russia herself were not able to help properly to Ukraine.

Slava!

Crow, can you really not understand that your fellow Slavs murdering Poles' fellow Europeans in, for example, the skies above the European nation of Ukraine is one of the many reasons that the vast majority of Poles want the EU commonwealth and have no interest in your 'Slaveia' ranting?