Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

what relevance has my family to this disagreement?


That doesnt make any sense, my family has exactly zero relevance here, your assumptions have zero relevance here and the rest of your rant has zero relevance here.

I cant see any point you are making other than "there was no other way" and that doesnt hold water.

It was you who brought them up in some of your earlier posts, not me.

I can see that you once again talk around the subject, by repeatedly using the words "rant", "zero relevance" , "rant" , "zero relevance" etc. etc. etc.

There is absolutely no point in even trying with you. Fact is, dear Barney, you do not know what you are talking about in this thread and you know that you have been found out. But keep up trying.........

Discussion over!

I have not mentioned my family and it's sad that you started talking about them for some reason known only to yourself. My family and your other assumptions about me have nothing whatsoever to do with this thread. It's quite bizarre that you would start talking about them.

You need to remember that your opinion is not the only opinion no matter how bombastic you are. You do have to learn to defend your opinion so far you have not done so.

Now this is something you are actually right about. I have just read through the posts again and saw that i have mistaken you for someone else. I apologize!

I read back and see that you made a mistake I did think it bizarre but now I understand the reference. You seem to be a gentleman which is a good thing.

Let me tell you one thing. Czechs are right when blame west of Europe and USA for the escalation of crisis in Ukraine.

What would you recommend to be done to rectify this crisis Crow ?

Where do you believe is propaganda here? That they are in fact Ukrainians? Or that they actually want to stay with Ukraine?

In order for me to answer that, you will have to define "they" first.

johnny reb, i didn`t forget. I`ll give you answer later.

I apologize, I thought it would be clear - they=the population of Crimea.

Well "they", the population of Crimea, were not the subject when i said, and I quote myself ......


.......I thought that was clear, specially since I have mentioned the town of Slavyansk.

The mantra 'Russians living on former Russian land' is mostly used by Kremlin to justify the annexation of Crimea, thus my logic. Anyway who are the Crimeans in your mind and what's the best way to handle the Crimea issue?

when we are at logic and if wants to be honest.

First of all. Historical logic is with Russia. Criema was part of Russian Empire for centuries. Russians themselves were as a nation consolidated within Kievan Rus. God knows what were communists were thinking when they draw the borders of back then Ukraine.

Then, i know, Sasha, you would ask for the international order and sovereignty of states. Don`t ask, because there is no neither the international order, neither the sovereignty of states. That, thanks to leading NATO and EU powers, who in international relations behave as it suits to them, from the position of simple power. Now Russia decided to respect its own historical rights and to respect sovereignty of states by the model of behavior of the leading NATO and EU powers.

It was not used in this thread with regards to Crimea, it was used by another member to explain the conflict in Donbass

There was easy explanation, that I heard here sometime in 1990's... Lenin wanted to "dilute" mostly peasant (and quite hostile to communist ideas) population of agrary Malorossia by proletariat of industrial Novorossia.


It was used to explain both Crimea and Novorossia, of course. Both regions was handed to Ukraine by communists in different moments of time.

to add here

We have to keep to facts, even if we aren`t honest. Its wise


to add here, too

So, state of the current international order/disorder created by NATO and EU leading powers, support rights of ethnic Russians within Ukraine, to fights for their independence and secession from Ukraine. Disrespect of sovereignty of states by NATO and EU leading powers gave even legitimacy to Russia to behave same way, if we speak from the angle of pure sovereignty of states. Every country can behave from the position of military power if there is no international order. Also, as i said, historical facts and rights support claims of ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

Now, here is what i wanted to underline. Add to all above a fact that are Russians majority on the land that is historically Russian. It was Russian ethnic land before national Ukrainian state was formed. Also, have in mind that Russian majority on the claimed territories was established before national Ukrainian state was formed.


yes but, have in mind that Lenin came to Russia from Germany (where he was trained) and initiated revolution, organized murder of Russian Tzar family. Magnates from west of Europe obviously were involved in creating the turmoil in Russia. No wonder that most powerful communist of Soviet Union wasn`t ethnic Russian. Stalin was Georgian. Think about it.

I'm fascinated to learn that bodies wearing NATO uniforms have been found at Donetsk airport. Perhaps one of our resident Kremlin fan-bois can tell us when NATO introduced NATO uniforms? Personally I've never heard of such a thing and my own experience tells me that NATO member countries can't even agree on the same rank designations, let alone the same uniform, but I'm sure the Putinites can explain.

Perhaps the truth might be that after Russian state TV managed to show footage of a uniformed Russian marine fighting at Donetsk airport, the Russians decided their least worst play was to lie about countries such as Poland being caught doing what the Russian state had exposed the Russian state as doing.

there we go.: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_and_insignia_of_NATO

but he probably ment,,uniforms from nato member countries...there is no denying there are westerners fighting in e.ukraine.

To be precise, it was half-Georgian and half-Ossetian.


We talking about Ukraine here, so some information concerning Ukraine of beginning of 20-th century.,..

Out of every 10 senior members of the Cheka-GPU-NKVD in Ukraine:

6 were Jewish,
2 were Russian,
1 was Ukrainian
1 was from other nationalities....

it reminds me of latest story from Ukraine.
so..general prosecutor launched criminal investigation into holodomor genocide.to find responsible of this atrocity and to use results as antyrussian propaganda.
upon completing investigation, they created list of ppl responsible...almost all of them Jewish,no Russian.
now Jewish communities and org. demands to stop this investigation, calling it antisemitic.lol

Looks like Obama wants to raise the risk for Russia for any further offensives.
Here is a tid bit from U.S. news:
Fueling the broader debate over policy is an independent report to be issued Monday by eight former senior American officials, who urge the United States to send $3 billion in defensive arms and equipment to Ukraine, including anti-armor missiles, reconnaissance drones, armored Humvees and radars that can determine the location of enemy rocket and artillery fire.

"The West needs to bolster deterrence in Ukraine by raising the risks and costs to Russia of any renewed major offensive," the report says. "That requires providing direct military assistance - in far larger amounts than provided to date and including lethal defensive arms."

Poland, the Baltic States, Canada and Britain, the report says, might also provide defensive weapons if the United States takes the lead.
$3 billion of the U.S. tax payers money that could build schools and hospitals or provide health care to it's own citizens.
Such sacrifice and big hearts the U.S. has for it's fellow man.

Why would anyone want to even try to deny that there are western fighters in east Ukraine? All that effort would be for nothing, specially as volunteer units from France, Spain and other countries have been very open towards the media as to why they have decided to join the separatist fighters.

The interesting bit is that even Russian state controlled TV is unable to keep up the farce that Russian forces are not fighting in Eastern Ukraine. Was them showing those images simple cock-up or the Kremlin sending a message?

Would you mind to post a link to what you claim?

Joseph Stalin - Georgian (not Jewish)
Vyacheslav Molotov - Russian
Pavel Postyshev - Ivanovo

Without the agreement of these three people, Holodomor would not have happened, especially not without the consent of Stalin and Molotov. Fact is that the Ukrainian SSR was starved to death and all food items sent to the Russian SSR. An act ordered by the people in power in Moscow. Whether the people in Moscow would have considered themselves to be Jewish, Russian / Georgian Orthodox or Atheists is completely irrelevant.


Russian media is known for it's cock-ups. When the "little green men" started to take over the Crimean streets, they invited a Crimean politician to a live telephone interview.

Of course, when you invite someone to your show, you want to make sure that you do your research on the person and their political views. Long story short, they thought they had some Russia friendly politician on the phone but actually spoke to one of the Crimean Tatar leaders. Needless to say that he did not have too much Russia friendly things to say. It took them a couple of minutes to realize that the interview was not going in the direction they hoped it would and suddenly the channel went off air with a "Sorry, we will be back shortly message" :)

Are we surprised to the following partial news clip ?

Obama told a Fareed Zakaria, a member of both the CFR and Rockefeller's Trilateral Commission, that the United States "brokered" the coup in Ukraine last February.

Obama's candid admission should not come as a surprise following the release of a surreptitiously recorded conversation between Victoria Nuland, the US-Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, and Geoffrey R. Pyatt, the US Ambassador to Ukraine.

The conversation centered on ousting Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych and replacing him with one of several hand-picked U.S. State Department choices.
Nuland instructed Pyatt to "have the UN glue this thing" and then dismissively added "fukc the EU" for its role negotiating the crisis.

The U.S. orchestrated "transition," as Obama characterized it, resulted in the appointment of fascists to key positions in the Kiev government and led to the current war in eastern Ukraine launched by Petro Poroshenko, the former confectionary magnate turned Ukrainian president.

Poroshenko's war on those who do not accept the nationalist government in Kiev has thus far killed more than 5,000 people, although unofficial tallies are far higher.

I would love to see a source to what you have just posted. I guess the "Fcuk the EU" thing isn't really news but still i would like to see where you took that from.

However, I can only repeat myself here and hope that at some point, people will start listening. Euromaidan wasn't born out of nowhere and the ousting of Yanukovich is his fault and his alone.

Euromaidan started with a small group of students gathering on Indepedence Square (or Maidan) and would have never grown to what it became, if it wasn't for the Berkut violently disbursing a, in comparison to the masses later, small group of students and other peaceful protesters Euromaidan would have never attracted the masses. It transformed from being a protest against the decision not to sign the AA to a protest against the regime which was sparked by the events from the night of the 30th of November.

And just when everything seemed to calm down a little bit, when less and less people went back to Maidan, when the streets slowly started clearing, Yanukovich signed the draconian laws basically stripping Ukrainians of the little bit of freedom that they have had left which brought the masses back to the streets and led to the outburst of violence at the Dynamo stadium.

While I do agree, the west got too much involved and I hated to see that little a*****e McCain talking to the people on Maidan, the only people responsible for Yanukovich;s ousting are Yanukovich himself and the squad of Berkut that decided to bring down the hammer on the students on 30th November.

If the 30th of November would not have happened and subsequently the draconian laws from 19th of January, Yanukovich would have well been able to run for a second term as president.

My pleasure since you were a gentleman and asked in a civil manner.
I got it from infowars.com

infowars.com/obama-admits-u-s-overthrew-democratically-elected-ukrainian-governmen

I hope it is o.k. to post it this way as it seems I got b*tched at for posting a site like this before.

If I screwed up please explain to me how to do it correctly.

even The Chief of Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces of ukraine , General Viktor Muzhenko,said there are no russian troops in ukraine,,,several generals said that in the past.

google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=ukraine%20general%20no%20russian%20troops%20in


lol... at how you omitted kaganovitz.
not only The Head of Ukraine's Security Service [SBU], Valentin Nalyvaichenko said that most of those responsible were Ukrainians.reason for this investigation was to sue Russia for damage...and propaganda..just google it ant find out urself.

Ok, so following your logic, it was not Hitler who caused the Holocaust but the people who actually locked the doors of the gas chambers?

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Holodomor happened without either the knowledge or consent / orders by Moscow?