Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

The party established the paramilitary organization Patriots of Ukraine in 1999 as an "Association of Support" for the Military of Ukraine. The paramilitary organization, which continuesto use the Wolfsangel symbol

looks like you are lying

what is this Harry?Russian propaganda?:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

"The "Idea of the Nation", a modified Wolfsangel rune used by neofascist groups, and Svoboda's first party logo"

Dismantling of Ukraine

In any case, Russia has established an operational plan in 5 phases, with that the 4 phases certainly will be implemented. The 5th phase is still in the balance and Moscow will evaluate whether to go to the same or not. Now, not to mystify them, these phases are the following:

Phase I - Complete and unquestionable mastering of the entire Crimea with the help of Russophonic population. It was an operation that was pre-defined as one without the shedding of blood, with the referendum and the absorption of the Crimea in the full sense into the state and legal system of Russia. This is the phase near its completion and is carried out by Russia literally perfect.

Phase II - The elements of this phase are beginning to emerge. First, these were decisions of district assemblies of provinces Lugansk and Donetsk (together known as a region - Donbas), and which in turn took anti-Maidan standpoints. Second, the protests were of low intensity and very dosed. True, recently the Maidan government realized where this leads, and organized a counter-demonstration, which resulted in deadly consequences and woundings. In any case no matter how ugly it may sound, this is a water on Russia's mill. So far, Russia would not start anything until in peace was conducted a referendum in the Crimea, which is crucial because it will to the Russophonic people in Ukraine show, i.e. pave the way so that they also make such a thing. When the referendum is finalized and the Crimea incorporated into the state and legal composition of Russia, commences in the region of Donbas the identical operation as in the Crimea. By carrying out this operation, i.e. through its dynamic, commences the 3rd phase.

Phase III - With the dynamics of "Crimeaization" of the Donbas, the Russian army supported by the local population will commence the 3rd phase, which includes the Kharkiv, Zaporizhia, Odessa and quite certainly Dnepropetrovsk province. This phase is important because it represents the consolidation of pro-Russian areas. What was not expected in the first 2 phases, in this one is quite possible, almost expected, and it is strong opposition to this scenario of the Maidan government-aided with the logistics and advisory of Washington, including acts of war... Completing this phase, automatically encourages the key one and that is the 4th phase.

Phase IV - This phase implies a connection of all the areas that were merged in the first three phases, which implies unquestionable mastery with more Kherson and Mykolaiv provinces how the overall territory would be without a "Dubrovnik", and for this you will need as a "fake" Odessa of 3rd phase.

With these phases will be liberated approximately 50% of the population of Ukraine from the Maidan regime, and when we add it up here when its all together, and some minimum of 70% Russophonic speakers, then we can say that the "ethnic" issue has been resolved...

After this will emerge not small tremors within the remainders of Ukraine, if what is left of Ukraine can be called that way, so maybe, just maybe followed by the 5th phase.

Phase V is hypothetical and it will be Moscow that decides if it deems it necessary. Basically, what is expected to be in the 5th phase because of the advanced stagnation, loss of the most propulsive parts of the country, rampant poverty and the realization that they were played and betrayed, should happen a revolution against the Maidan government... It will be very heterogeneous, since some of the revolutionaries (Kiev, the East and the Central area, and to a certain part of the Western Ukraine) would want to go back to the old in terms of the period before the Maidan, a part (Lvov, Ivano-Frankivsk, Ternopil, etc...) will want an unquestionable war with Russia... Emerge will a civil war, and Russia will support those to themselves loyal, and ultimately endeavor to create another border in Ukraine, which would run the north - south around the western borders of Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia provinces. Will the Khmelnytsky and Rivne provinces belong to the team from Kiev or Lvov, it will be a matter of dispute and maybe even an agreement...

Here, this is how will look finally dismantled Ukraine, thanks to Washington and it's insatiable goals focused on Russia...

No greggy, you are the one who has been caught lying. As the source quote but do not link to makes clear:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

In fact, far from being a part of Svoboda, members of Patriots of Ukraine have recently been fighting with Svoboda members:


nytimes.com/2014/02/21/world/europe/protesters-join-fight-in-kiev-100-at-a-time.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0

yet most prominent neonazi members of Social-National Party of Ukraine(predecessor of svoboda)inclouding founders as Oleh Tyahnybok,now leader of "All-Ukrainian Union "Svoboda"

and Andriy Parubiy are eighter within government or most prominent politician of Svoboda.lol
doesnt looks like they cut any ties with neonazis,apatr from changing SS division logo
keep lying

Crnogorac3.Oh the west gave Putin the perfect opportunity for Putin to exploit this situation,I agree.

youtube.com/watch?v=V4Q5v4KVAdM

Oj Putine, Komandante,
Crna Gora,
Pozdravlja Te!

Congratulations to the people of Crimea on a free and fair referendum held according to the highest international standards which proved overwhelming majority were in favor of reunification. Have a great and prosperous future as part of Russian Federation.

Given that the Kremlin refuses to answer questions about its lies, let's ask you to justify those lies greggy, seeing as you repeat those lies.

If the government of Ukraine is made up of Ukrainian neo-Nazis as you claim:
Why is the acting minister of defense of Roma origin?
Why is the speaker of the parliament and the acting president a Baptist preacher from southeastern Ukraine?
Why is the acting minister of internal affairs half Armenian and half Russian?
Why is the new prime minister is a Russian-speaking conservative technocrat?
Why is the likely next president the son of a general in the Soviet armed forces and a man who barely speaks Ukrainian?
Why were all of the powerful ministries, where of course any coup-plotter would plant his own people, led in the acting government by professionals and Russian speakers?

Come on greggy, let's see you lie your way out of this one!

youtube.com/watch?v=V95VSNfFqCo

Rohm was openly Gay,still doent make the Nazis tolerant people

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_R%C3%B6hm

Given that it was one of the main reasons he was killed, by the Nazis, your attempt to make a point is just another of your epic fails.

Now, back to your problem, if the government of Ukraine is made up of Ukrainian neo-Nazis as you claim:
Why is the acting minister of defense of Roma origin?
Why is the speaker of the parliament and the acting president a Baptist preacher from southeastern Ukraine?
Why is the acting minister of internal affairs half Armenian and half Russian?
Why is the new prime minister is a Russian-speaking conservative technocrat?
Why is the likely next president the son of a general in the Soviet armed forces and a man who barely speaks Ukrainian?
Why were all of the powerful ministries, where of course any coup-plotter would plant his own people, led in the acting government by professionals and Russian speakers?

Come on greggy, let's hear it! Or do you need to phone the Kremlin for advice about what to do when confronted with truth?

it only shows how little you know about history.all SA leaders were killed during long knives night.it has nothing to do with him being homo


not ethnic roots but ideologies you promote makes you Nazi or not.
there were even Jewish,polish,russian and british Nazis in 1939.
and i didnt said all of them are,but many prominent sloboda party are for sure

What the heck is wrong with you guys? Can't any of you see that this is the result up stupid nationailism and power-hungry politicians?


Harry, is this how we conduct ourselves in a democracy?:

youtube.com/watch?v=F5GeBpZ5VHY

You guys can point the finger all you want, but it's not going to bring stability, freedom or real democracy to the region, is it?

i tried to tell them that nothing good will come from radicals "elected" with Molotov cocktail.
best part of this assault is that Ironically, one of the men involved in the assault was the deputy head of Ukraine's committee on freedom of speech.

Harry is obvious Troll and i am having fun exposing him. :)

a) No they weren't.
b) See, for example, the conversation between Mussolini and Hitler on the topic of the SA in 1934.


You said that the government were Ukrainian neo-Nazis. So if the government of Ukraine is made up of Ukrainian neo-Nazis as you claim:
Why is the acting minister of defense of Roma origin?
Why is the speaker of the parliament and the acting president a Baptist preacher from southeastern Ukraine?
Why is the acting minister of internal affairs half Armenian and half Russian?
Why is the new prime minister is a Russian-speaking conservative technocrat?
Why is the likely next president the son of a general in the Soviet armed forces and a man who barely speaks Ukrainian?
Why were all of the powerful ministries, where of course any coup-plotter would plant his own people, led in the acting government by professionals and Russian speakers?


Of course it is (although some of the politicians are at least as interested in money as power).


You already forgotten the fist-fights in parliament which used to be the hallmark of the old regime?

That's not true the maths depends on the turn out, an opposition boycott only increases the "yes" vote.
The people of Crimea according to the wiki page - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_referendum,_2014 have been less than enthustiac about being part of Ukraine.


This argument is a bit like the neo nazi thing, people take absolute sides, ignoring that there are several neo nazis in the new regime and that they formed the vanguard of the coup (despite what the hatchet pieces by Snyder and Harding claim and omit). There are also neo nazis on the other side, the Eastern governor who was disappeared was a neo Nazi pictured posing with a Swastika. The western Ukrainian council leader beaten up and shot in the street was anti Svoboda, some one beat him and shot him. The two people shot dead in Kharkiv were opposed to the new regime but don't get as much coverage as they should. The Russian shot dead at the same time as the Ukrainian soldier is never mentioned.

There are info/propaganda wars going on and its entirely childish to ignore the defects in your chosen side while pointing at the defects in the other.

The long and short however is that Crimea is part of Ukraine and a local area cannot legally declare UDI

it doesnt matter who are those chosen to those government high position.what matters is that it was THEM(sloboda) who did it.those guys were loyal to their cause and it is possible that Svoboda put them there to moderate their radical image.

beside...Baptist preacher in parliament suppose to be proof that svoboda is not radical party??? common

The nit-picking does not interest people. What is more important is economical situation of the Ukraine addressed by Mr Putin in his Crimean speech:


Does sanctions, which will be imposed on Russia, change the economical situation in the Ukraine?

The other question is why did Mr Putin grant Mr Yanukovych - one of the most corrupted oligarchs in the Ukraine - an asylum?

The official turn-out was 82.71%.
globaltimes.cn/content/848944.shtml

The official result was 96.77% in favour of joining Russia, i.e. 96.77% of 82.71% of the population supposedly supported it, i.e. 80% of the entire population.
Ethnic Russians accounted for 58% of the entire population, so where did the other 22% who allegedly voted in favour come from? Do you really believe that a significant number of people from groups who have suffered genocide at the hands of Russians would actually vote to again be under Russian rule?!

Thats the electorate not the population, its a mathematical point.

OK. The official turn-out was 82.71% of the adult population (source). The official result was 96.77% in favour of joining Russia, i.e. 96.77% of 82.71% of the of the adult population supposedly supported it, i.e. 80% of the entire adult population.

Assuming equal number of adults to children in each ethnic group, Ethnic Russians accounted for 58% of the entire adult population, so where did the other 22% of the entire adult population who allegedly voted in favour come from? Do you really believe that a significant number of people from groups who have suffered genocide at the hands of Russians would actually vote to again be under Russian rule? Or would you prefer us to address mathematical points?

Soviets not Russians

Mr Putin put the things of the past in the most pertinent and enlightening way:

When you are using figures to make a point it is relevant.

The point is that either the referendum was obviously fixed or a significant number of people from ethnic groups which have suffered genocide at Russian hands within living memory voted to again be ruled by Russians. None of your nit-picking as to mathematical definitions will change that. So Barney, given that you love to trot out the Kremlin lies, which is it: did a significant number of people from ethnic groups which have suffered genocide at Russian hands within living memory vote to again be ruled by Russians or was the referendum clearly fixed?

ok..to change topic a little.

what gonna happen in Ukraine now regarding economical situation.is Ukraine able to sustain financial stability in case Russia terminating discounts for gas and oil,and impose duty on Ukraine export.or they gonna go bankrupt.

can EU bail them,pay their debs?
I Mean if economy goes bust,there are risk of chaos and anarchy.i heard financial situation is daring and there are talks in Russia to increase prices of gas and impose sanctions.

Harry
if referendum was fixed one would expect massive protests on streets in Crimea.
so far everyone seems to be happy there

Those same streets where one can now find tens of thousands of heavily armed Russian soldiers? Yeah, right.
Crimea's Tatar population have already been given one reminder of what happens to Tatars who object to Russian dictators, i.e. they get kidnapped, tortured and murdered.

But seeing as how Barney has for some reason gone all quiet, perhaps you can tell us all greggy: did a significant number of people from ethnic groups which have suffered genocide at Russian hands within living memory vote to again be ruled by Russians or was the referendum clearly fixed?

those Russians are there since decades,there are no new troops deployed.quite frankly massive income in Sevastopol comes from black fleet Russian soldiers.


My take is that lots of people voted for Russians could be motivated economically reason..this region was neglected by government in Kiev and poor.maybe there were lured by prospect of much reacher country- investments into region.beside..lots of those "ukrainians"i east are actually Russian speaking.

i don't believe in fixing,even whole world,me included is surprised of how well this referendum was welcomed by locals,

Where the truth lies then?

Russia not yet the beacon for the whole world to see but the land of rational politicians facing the most difficult challenges in a composed and easy manner.

The plain fact is that if you are using figures you have to understand what they say. It's not a matter of trotting out the Kremlin line it's a matter of honesty. The electorate is not the same as the adult population, the ethnic makeup is not broken down into those eligible to vote and so on.

Being opposed to the partition of Ukraine is hardly the kremlin line now is it? It's wholly dishonest to suggest it is.

I know you are a stranger to numbers but it's not really difficult to understand that the more you boycott a vote the greater likelihood that a landslide will occur. You are arguing in the dark because you don't have the figures.

Or maybe:


Were the soldiers and other non residents also given the right to vote?