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Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it



johnny reb
15 Feb 2015  #2791

you will never be able to understand how the conflict could have developed into what it has become.

And the part you don't understand is the MAIN REASON 'why' it did.
Propaganda has become very transparent in this day and age thanks to the internet.
Ron Paul states it VERY CLEAR:
"I'm not pro-Russia, I'm not pro-Putin, I'm pro-facts."
"The Ukraine coup was planned by NATO and EU................
The best thing we can do for Ukraine is get the foreigners out."
That is why I personally would like to see NATO disbanned.
THEY have to have a world military (NATO) however to proceed with THEIR New World Order.

JollyRomek
15 Feb 2015  #2792

The Ukraine coup was planned by NATO and EU................

If only you would have the slightest clue about what happened during Euromaidan, how it started and why it ended the way it did, you would know how ridiculous and far fetched these words sound. But, you don't have a clue and therefore NATO and EU instigating the "coup" makes perfect sense to you.

johnny reb
15 Feb 2015  #2793

how it started and why

I am very updated on the Euromaidan.....yeah yeah, I know, you were there so that makes you more of an authority than me.
You really need to start looking at the bigger picture and that is what/who was behind the "coup".
But, you don't have a clue that this was all planned out way before the Euromaidan as the EU wanted to integrate Ukraine so your theory makes perfect sense to you.

The "coup" got the leader of Ukraine ousted, they collapsed the economy of Ukraine and now is forcing a civil war within
the Ukraine soon to be a world war.
NATO and the EU supporting one side, Russia supporting the other.
Have you ever done any reading on the New World Order by any chance ?
They have the use of NATO for their personal military for the take over.
Start thinking outside your little box which is just one piece of the picture of the puzzle.

gregy741
15 Feb 2015  #2794

I think I have explained it to you. You need to start reading and understanding. It is not surprising that many Ukrainians have fled or are still fleeing to Russia. They most likely have family in Russia. Or if not, there is a good chance that there could have lived in Russia before for work and still have contacts or a place to go to. There is absolutely nothing strange about it.

if you only know how hypocrite you are and not able to understand what you write...
that was my point when asking to explain why they run away to Russia.you now admitted yourself that those people are different ethnic group with different history,allegiances and mentality...therefore they not Ukrainians,who they consider as alien aggressor....they are people who are being occupied and terrorized by Ukrainians.thats why they chose to seek refugee in Russia rather than Kiev. now.in that light ,you understand Russia involvement- protecting their own.

you and all your BS about "Ukrainians" being subjected by foreign "terrorists" lol

but because they do not see a reason why they should fight for people they believe would prefer to be part of Russia

FOR the people??? are you saying that Ukrainians are in this war" FOR THE PEOPLE OF EAST"?YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.are you Canadian by any chance?

you lecturing other about "not understanding Ukraine" you don't seem to understand what you write ..

If only you would have the slightest clue about what happened during Euromaidan

fresh article from BBC(not RT) just for you:
bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31359021

JollyRomek
15 Feb 2015  #2795

You really need to start looking at the bigger picture and that is what/who was behind the "coup".

Once again, you are blathering absolute nonsense. It was neither the EU nor NATO that was brutally beating peaceful students on independence square on 30th November, it was Berkut and forces of the interior ministry. Euromaidan and the mass protests were sparked by the events of that night, nothing else.

But, you don't have a clue that this was all planned out way before the Euromaiden as the EU wanted to integrate Ukraine so your theory makes perfect sense to you.

The wild imagination of a conspiracy theorist, nothing more. Surely, even you will know that Ukraine was on it's way to to integrate into Europe by signing the Association Agreement. There was absolutely no reason to believe that Yanukovich would turn his back to the AA just shortly before it was meant to be signed in Vilnus.

I am not sure how many times I have to write this here but it was Yanukovich who brought himself down. The protests following the rejection of the AA were small. They only grew to what became known as Euromaidan because Berkut disbursed the peaceful protests of mostly students on independence square. The news of that event outraged the whole nation bringing people from all corners of the country to Kyiv in protest against corruption and police brutality. The Euromaidan protests had very little, if not nothing, to do with integration into Europe anymore. Euromaidan became a protest against the regime itself, sparked by the events of the 30th of November 2013.

By the time the orthodox new year's and Christmas period was over, things started to calm down in Kyiv. Less and less people went to the streets, negotiations were held and even some of the government buildings were cleared by protesters. And just as the situation seems to calm down and resolve itself, Yanukovich signed the draconian laws or anti-protest laws which basically would have stripped Ukrainian people of all rights to freedom of speech. That brought the people back onto the streets and caused the violence next to the Dynamo stadium leading up the Verkhovna Rada.

You may want to make yourself familiar with these laws but you don't have to if you prefer to hang on to your conspiracy theories.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-protest_laws_in_Ukraine

As I have said, it was Yanukovich and Yanukovich alone who eventually ousted himself by signing these laws. Nobody else did it for him and the EU and NATO most certainly did not force him into signing them.

if you only know how hypocrite you are and not able to understand what you write...
that was my point when asking to explain why they run away to russia.you now admitted yourself that those people are different ethnic group with different history,allegiances and mentality...therefore they not Ukrainians,who they consider as alien aggressor....they are people who are being occupied and terrorized by ukrainians.thats why they chose to seek refugee in Russia rather than Kiev. now.in that light ,you understand Russia involvement- protecting their own.

I have not said that they are of different ethnic groups. Read what I have written and read it carefully. You might get my point. If you can not do that, don't bother me with your, what seems to have been written in rage with your blood boiling, nonsense.

you lecturing other about "not understanding Ukraine" you don't seem to understand what you write .

Once again, read my words carefully before you start acting like an 8 year old. Particularly the point when i mentioned:

There has always been a very deep division between the west and particularly the Donbass region mostly because either side did not really know the other very well.

why they should fight for people they believewould preferto be part of Russia

gregy741
Calm down and write with your head screwed on and thoughts properly gathered which I know you can as some of your posts have shown.

gregy741
15 Feb 2015  #2796

man,you are delusional,sicko -wacko who believe that ukra has murdered up to 50k of people for their own good...Hitler also believed he was fighting for white race,Germany,defending Europe etc..i don't even know why i even respond to you..weirdos like you and the one in Kiev are worst kind in this world,fokers on the mission ,always killing in the right cause ...gtfo

JollyRomek
15 Feb 2015  #2797

Wow! Just when i thought you have brought yourself to the lowest possible standard, you manage to get even lower.

gregy741
15 Feb 2015  #2798

let me ask you: was volhynian massacre also done for polish people?

JollyRomek ♂

ohh i see ,am asking to difficult questions maybe...
ok ok lets ask easier one.
since you so knowledgeable in Ukrainian affairs,tell me,what was was done for east Ukrainian especially beneficial for them,for which they should be most grateful-dropping white phosphorus on them or cluster bombs.

JollyRomek
15 Feb 2015  #2799

Not really but I have absolutely no interest in talking to you after your last few posts. Good Luck!

gregy741
16 Feb 2015  #2800

according to few web sites ,,Mykola has been killed...he was this man, accused by many to be leader of mob,responsible for Odessa massacre.

those who are familiar with this atrocity ,will recognize him.he was this fat guy who was shooting towards people who were jumping through windows.

i know,he is hero for some jolly guys here...he did it for those people he killed.for their own good,some would say

048.ua/news/741004
he was one of Kolomoyskis lieutenant.
debalcevo satelite image...those black spots are marks from artillery shells


  • satellite image of debalcevo cauldron

JollyRomek
16 Feb 2015  #2801

i know,he is hero for some jolly guys here...he did it for those people he killed.for their own good,some would say

Last night I assumed that you were drunk, writing in rage and not able to read posts properly. At leasts that is how i tried to explain your behaviour to myself. It turns out that you continue with it today. Well, i will leave you to it. Maybe one day you will be able to point out the post in which I am supposed to have said that "the Ukrainian army is bombing Donetsk for their own good".

But seeing that I am still waiting for you to point out the post in which I have allegedly claimed that there are regular Russian troops in Donetsk, or that Harry is still waiting for your explanation of "serving French troops" fighting in Donbass, I guess it will be a long wait.

Szalawa
17 Feb 2015  #2802

he was this fat guy who was shooting towards people who were jumping through windows.

Yeah I heard he is dead now. I just want to know if he served a punishment for what he did or was be basically given a free pass all this time. He is supposedly dead from lung disease?

gregy741
17 Feb 2015  #2803

yea....and supposedly he cough some disease soon after Odessa massacre.he was paid for treatment in Geneva,but died in Odessa hospital before he got there.word says he got paid for this treatment by government,or kolomoyski.

shocking...guy should be prosecuted..but never mind,those Kiev ppl are joke....
but you never know...maybe hes alive,given another life and his death faked...then word spread about his dead...he was quite a hot potato given criticism of kiev for not prosecuting him.

JollyRomek
17 Feb 2015  #2804

You need to have a full understanding of what exactly happened in Odessa. While I agree, there is no justification for the burning of people inside the trade unions house, shooting at people trying to flee the fire or beating up the ones that managed to get out of the building, it is not a clear cut case where just one side is to blame.

The reason for what happened at the trade union house was the clash between pro-Ukrainian supporters and pro-Russia / separatist supporters in the center of Odessa.

Originally, a march of football ultras, mixed with an element of right sector and ordinary people was meant to take place. This march was supposed to lead from the city center to the stadium were Chornormorets was meant to play Metalist Kharkiv that day. Similar pro-Ukrainian marches took place in various cities in Ukraine before that day, the biggest one in Kharkiv when they played Shakhtar. Along the route, the march was attacked by pro-Russia activists using baseball bats, hammers and pistols. Shots were fired randomly into the crowd from behind police lines and even from the roof top of a shopping center. Again, from the top of a shopping center, shooting randomly into a crowd. The subsequent clashes and riots lead the masses back to the trade union house where it completely escalated.

Again, while I completely disagree with the violence, it seems that you are missing some pieces here as to how it could actually come to this. Whether or not you are missing these pieces on purposes would only be speculation and therefore i will not go into it.

Szalawa
17 Feb 2015  #2805

We are talking about this one guy caught on video shooting at a burning building that people are trying to escape from. If I am not wrong that is illegal, and to me immoral.

johnny reb
17 Feb 2015  #2806

You need to have a full understanding of what exactly happened

You keep repeating this Jolly and you are so clueless who/what started this from the get go.
YOU are the one that needs to get a FULL understanding.
Do you know what "wag the tail of the dog" means ?
You think the riots were the start of this. Let me give you a hint, it was all planned out way long before that.
The people of Ukraine were just used as pawns.
Now that Ukraine is no longer about the Ukraine and see that it is now between the United States of America and Russia
just maybe you will catch on to what this is really all about.
(side bar) The U.S. just sent 4000 ground troops to Kuwait who are on stand bye waiting for the real fireworks to start.

JollyRomek
17 Feb 2015  #2807

missing pieces?are you really not able to follow any conversation,are you 10 years old? first of all.we were not talking about massacre,but death of one of the leader ,who was sent there to kill innocent people.i wasn't even describing events that took place in that post...how on earth i missed anything there?

You are clearly unable to remember what you have written yourself, today, only a couple of hours ago. You were raging about him not being proscecuted for his crimes in Odessa, yet you seem to forget how the events in Odessa actually started. Of course now you never mentioned the events, just said that he died, nothing else. I can see a pattern in your style of leading a discussion.

dont talk s..it about those innocent victims ,suggesting they are responsible for what happened to them.this are beyond garbage

I have not suggested anything of that sort. Read again and read carefully.

for burning up to 100 people alive? huh?

So now it is up to 100 people? Well, seeing that according to you it has also been 50000 people who died in the conflict in Donbass, i am not surprised that you are just throwing around random numbers regarding the Odessa event too.

If I am not wrong that is illegal, and to me immoral.

Yes, i agree however it is wrong to just look at the events of Odessa from one position. The escalation had a reason and if someone claims that people were sent there by Kyiv to "kill innocent people", as our resident expert gregy has suggested, then it is time to look at everything that happened in Odessa on that day and not just the bloody aftermath of it.

You think the riots were the start of this. Let me give you a hint, it was all planned out way long before that.

Yes, yes Mr. Consiperacy theorist.

Why don't you share your great wisdom on the Odessa events with us? I have, even if not in great detail, written what happened on that day. Why don't you proof me wrong instead of just keep repeating your theory of the "planned out way long before that" consiperacy theory. Have you noticed that apart from "long planned" you have actually not posted one single fact about your theory?

When can we expect something solid from you?

johnny reb
17 Feb 2015  #2808

What conspiracy theory are you talking about ?
Doesn't a light bulb go on now that this is nolonger about the Ukraine ?
Let me ask you this, "do you believe that this is nolonger about the Ukraine and
has esculated between the U.S.A. and Russia ?"
(side bar) NATO is the United States.

JollyRomek
17 Feb 2015  #2809

What conspiracy theory are you talking about ?

Why don't you start talking about facts? All i can hear from your is "it was all planned long before". What was planned? What is the supposed outcome of this plan? Etc, etc, etc.

If you want to be taken serious you have to bring a bit more than "it was all planned".

But I have told you several times now. If you would only pay a bit of interest to facts and the timeline of Euromaidan, you would understand that NATO and the EU or the U.S. were not steering the boat. Yanukovich was the captain of his own ousting starting with brutally disbursing peaceful students on Maidan at the end of November to signing the draconian laws at a time when things calmed down again in the middle of January.

How you still come to the conclusion that EU, NATO or the U.S. have had anything to do with Yanukovich's actions which first of all led to Euromaidan and then led to the ousting of Yanukovich is completely beyond me. Every 10 year old would be able to understand what happened and how it happened if they would only pay a bit of interest to the timeline and events of Euromaidan. Why you can't do that too?

about the Ukraine ?

The Ukraine ceased to exists in 1991. The country is called Ukraine now, unless you are referring to "The" Ukrainian SSR?

johnny reb
18 Feb 2015  #2810

Let me ask you this, "do you believe that this is nolonger about the Ukraine and
has esculated between the U.S.A. and Russia ?"

Why didn't you answer my question, it is not a trick question to fool a ten year old.
Just a "yes" or "no" would be sufficient.
(sidebar) here in America we still call it 'The Ukraine' and there ain't squat you can do about it but puff along like a

little steam engine train.....puff, puff, puff, puff. lol

JollyRomek
18 Feb 2015  #2811

Why didn't you answer my question

Because your question does not make any sense to me. You have asked me whether or not i still think that this is about Ukraine. There is nothing more to your question apart from the fact that any answer to it would lead to more conspiracy theories which are of course your favourites.

here in America we still call it 'The Ukraine'

That is your imagination. "The Ukraine" has nothing to do with "American English", it is simply incorrect because it is referring to a country that does not exist anymore.

- Edit - @ Admin & Mods, here is an example as to why quoting, even from the last post of the thread, is important. I want to pick out two particular sentences to which I want to reply. Please re-think the new rule as I am sure that I am not the only one who feels that way.

johnny reb
18 Feb 2015  #2812

Let me ask you this, "do you believe that this is nolonger about Ukraine and
has esculated between the U.S.A. and Russia ?"

Yes or No ? Simple enough.............
I never said that the Ukraine had anything to do with the American English.
I said, (may I quote legally)

here in America we still call it 'The' Ukraine and there ain't squat you can do about it

I may be incorrect as can be but guess what, I will still call it THE Ukraine no matter what you want so put
that in your pipe and smoke it.
And it doesn't matter what you want to pick out two particular sentences.
They rules say it is unnecessary and not to do it yet you do it anyways because it's what you want.
Now, yes or no to my question and keep the rest of your annoying foddar to yourself because I have better things
to do then argue about what you want and don't really care what you want Jolly.
Now go pout................................................after you answer my question.

JollyRomek
18 Feb 2015  #2813

Your question does not interest me. I have told you this before. Is the concept of a fact based discussion difficult for you to understand? Any answer to your question would be speculation without any facts. I have given you facts about Euromaidan, about the events in Odessa etc. etc. All of which you have completely ignored because you prefer to talk about theories which you pick up on some blogs without any substance.

Of course you can continue to call it "The Ukraine". It is your good right to continue to display your ignorance and lack of knowledge on the subject you are trying to discuss.

Harry
18 Feb 2015  #2814

He can and I'm sure he will.

Crow
18 Feb 2015  #2815

Peace to Slavic children. Hostile non-Slavic foreigners out of the region!

Harry
18 Feb 2015  #2816

Oh look: crow is being racist! Now that is something you see every day.

Or is there some other reason why crow is fine with hostile Slavs being on Ukrainian territory?

Crow
18 Feb 2015  #2817

Ukrainians and other Slavs that live in Ukraine deserve help from other Slavs. Anglo-Germanic sponsored Nazi banderists that are active in Ukraine threaten all Slavs.

Harry
18 Feb 2015  #2818

If any Anglo-Germanic sponsored Nazi banderists existed (which they don't) and were in Ukraine (which they aren't), they would be fighting on the side of the democratically elected government of Ukraine and against the slavic hoards who take their orders from the dictator in the Kremlin.

johnny reb
18 Feb 2015  #2819

Of course you can continue to call it "The Ukraine".

I thunk it finally has sunk in. Thank you so much for your permission to call it the Ukraine.
I give you the same permission to call it what you want.
Problem solved.

gregy741
18 Feb 2015  #2820

more interesting information about maydan is being uncovered recently by BBC,Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung ,AND Spiegel...find out yourself about "peaceful democratic protesters" this time cant put those information as "Russian propaganda"

Kiev wont hide their blood soaked hands for long...
dobalcevo taken by seps...miners and taxi drivers beat the living s.it out of banderist thugs.some things never change..those banderist always perform good fighting against women and children...running away in panic once they face determined man.


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