Ukraine Crisis... Poland... and the way i see it

here some interesting thoughts ...Chomsky and Kissinger talking about takeover of Ukrainian government:
mintpressnews.com/chomsky-kissinger-agree-avoid-historic-tragedy-ukraine/201839

Actually it was planned out before you were born if the truth be known.
A former NATO intelligence analyst has said that the crisis in Ukraine stems from as far back as 30 years when the United States "deliberately sabotaged" relations between Europe and Russia.

The current crisis in Ukraine stems from as far back as 1986, when the United States saw an opportunity to model itself as the new single world superpower at the close of the Cold War and saw friendly Russian overtures to Western Europe as a threat.

Of course that is just a "conspiracy theory."

My questions do not interest you because time and time again you have failed to answer any of them with concrete facts. Instead, you kept repeating the same old thing about "it was all planned long time ago". That appears to be your answer to everything, simply because you do not know any better than that.


Which truth? What you call truth based on your conspiracy theories which you take off some random blogs (as you have linked to before)? Or the truth as normal people try to find based on facts and real events?


30 years back the cold war was still on. Sabotaging each other, i.e. the U.S. against Russia (Soviet Union) and Russia (Soviet Union) against the U.S. was part of daily life. I am not sure how this is surprising or news for you and how this would in fact relate to the ousting of Yanukovich and the current conflict in Donbass.


Yes, it is because they are lacking facts, evidence etc. Perhaps these are the kind of conversations you have with your buddies over a beer but your above mentioned points are simply not enough for a fact based conversation on the current Ukrainian crisis.

Once again I encourage you to educate yourself on the timelines and events of Euromaidan, perhaps even the whole period of Yanukovich being in power. You will find that there was no need for any external intervention from the west as Yanukovich did everything himself to eventually enrage the people so much that they would not accept anything else but his resignation.

Of course you can continue to talk about "it was all planned long before" if it is easier for you.

why you even bother to reply to him?this guy is repeating same trash and call it "concrete facts"let him live in his delusional world where he believe he knows something.hes probably 15 years old judging by standard of his bs he spawn .

some interesting site,if anyone is interested to learn about hardware losses in this conflict: lostarmour.info
all entries are well documented

That "same trash" has proven you wrong about your "facts" time and time again. You have repeatedly failed to give any precise answers to what you call "trash". It is quite obvious that you have no answers to any of the facts that have been presented to you by myself or other users.

And once again, because you do not know any better, you bring the level of discussion down to the level of insulting others only to make your point, which in fact is no point at all

What you call facts is simply opinion, it would be in the new regime's interests to have a proper open and transparent inquiry into the shooting in Kiev for example. You claimed that the removal of Yanukovich was constitutional yet your fact was shown to be opinion that required a better argument.

With regard to avoiding answering questions there are several waiting adequate answers earlier in the thread.

I'd be interested to hear any facts which support the fantasy that a government which has been democratically elected in a state which is headed by democratically elected president should be called a "regime". It seems to me that only an insane fantasist would want to insist that such a government was a regime, the kind of madman who sees Nazis everywhere he looks.


Are any of those the T-72 BM tanks that your master claims were taken from Ukrainian army stores but in reality have never been used by the Ukrainian army? Here's a handy tank spotting guide:

No, it is not opinion. The timeline and events of Euromaidan are facts, they happened. It is not something that I have an opinion about but simply events which took place.

My guess was 16. That is why I continue my patience with him.


That is a very untrue insulting generic teenage statement as I could say the same thing about your opinions.


No doubt and what I am telling you are facts too because they happened. Prove me wrong.


Not true. Once again I encourage you to educate yourself on the timelines and events of Euromaidan.
To paraphrase:
The intentions of the Western-backed fascist groups who showed up in Kiev's Maidan Square to execute a carefully orchestrated scheme (coup) to overthrow the legitimate Ukraine Government.

Not only did US statesmen actively support these terrorists from the very beginning, the US-EU tandem stoked the flames of revolution every way they could without getting caught in broad daylight.


Your strong German 'stubborn' denial does not change that FACT does it. Prove me wrong.


Not at that point silly, the coup (outside influence) had already been instilled by the West for reasons that I already gave you.


Maybe if I bring the discussion down to a teenagers level you won't find it so insulting.

No you can not say the same thing because so far I have not been throwing around conspiracy theories but have presented facts. Fact to which you have never been able to produce any constructive replies.


You are missing one point! The point as to why the people went to Maidan in masses. It was because of the night of the 30th November. You keep forgetting that Euromaidan, until that night, was just a small protest of students. If the 30th of November wouldnt have happened, the masses wouldnt have turned up after. You missing key elements of how Euromaidan developed. Either you are doing it on purpose or you simply do not know about these key elements.


I have done it plenty of times. In fact, i have just done it in this post by showing you that you are missing key elements to your argument.


You havent given me any reasons. You have given me your theories which you have read on some conspiracy blogs.


Ah yes, here we go again.

"What I am telling you are facts too because they happened"

Really? So how about you provide some sources to support your laughable claim that US special forces are operating in Ukraine? You claimed that there is video evidence, so let's see it!

No they are not facts, if they were facts there would have been a transparent enquiry with the cross examination of witnesses, full disclosure of documentation and the other trappings characteristic of a democratic state to prove they were facts. There has been no such enquiry in fact the regime has been quite successful in sabotaging its own investigation.

You do not need an enquiry into the brutal beating of students by Berkut in the night of the 30th November in order to count it as a factual event that happened. There is plenty of video, photo and eye witness evidence. Leave alone the countless doctors and hospital reports for those who needed treatment.

You also do not need an enquiry into the signing of the draconian laws in the middle of January. That also happened. I am not sure what you want / need to investigate about it.

I take it that there is no chance of us ever getting any facts which support the stance that a government which has been democratically elected in a state which is headed by democratically elected president should be called a "regime". Clearly it's just another part of the insanity which sees neo-nazis everywhere and thinks that a bunch of criminals saying 'We're going to join another state' is a Universal Declaration of Independence.

A democratically elected president was removed from power and you don't think anything needs explained, that puts you at odds with almost everyone else with even a passing interest in these events. The new regime thought that an enquiry was necessary, though they have been subverting it ever since, but you don't. What do you know that no one else does?

Almost every major event in the democratic world has had an enquiry to establish what happened that is how democracy works, it is supposed to be both transparent and accountable. You are not presenting facts you are presenting your interpretation ie your opinion.

He abandoned his post and refused to sign the agreements which he had promised to sign as part of the deal to end the street violence which his thugs had started, so the democratically-elected voted to appoint somebody who would carry out the duties of the president.


Haven't we spoken in the past about your inability to make your fantasies real just by repeating them over and over and over again?

You can keep chanting 'new regime', 'new regime', 'new regime', 'new regime' for as long as you want: it won't make the democratically-elected government a regime, just as your insistence that neo-nazis controlled certain Ukrainian ministries and the Ukrainian armed forces never in any way meant that they did.

I want you to understand what happened PRIOR November 30, 2014.
We all know what happened AFTER November 21, 2014 when the protests originally started.
Remember when I kept asking you WHAT led up to the protests and WHO was behind this.
and Why ?


That is what I am trying to explain to you but you are hell bent on the Euromaiden being the START of the Crisis.
I am hell bent on telling you what led up to the developement of the Euromaiden. Does that help ?
Let me quote with one example:
Prime Minister Mykola Azarov had asked for €20 billion (US$27 billion) in loans and aid[64] The EU was willing to offer €610 million ($838 million) in loans,[65] however Russia was willing to offer $15 billion in loans.[65] Russia also offered Ukraine cheaper gas prices.[65] In addition to the money, the EU required major changes to the regulations and laws in Ukraine. Russia, however, did not.

Can you start understanding that this was all about the West vs. Russia more than it was about the Euromaidan ?
I don't understand how you can not see the conspiracy theory of why the West may have wanted to inserted a coup.
This "conspiracy" all started way before 2014.
When did Yanukovich come into office, 2010 ? How did he get elected in 2010 ?


Because I am not talking about JUST the Euromaiden, (one piece of the puzzle), I am talking about the whole puzzle.
Are you old enough to drink alcohol ? I would like to buy you a beer.

Gees before you tear me apart......
I meant 2013, not 2014.

I don't know why trolls keep calling other people nazis. Russia was hitlers biggest ally and is a major cause of ww2. There should be a celebration every year to mark the expulsion of nazi russia from europe.

It may have something to do with naming think tanks after Goebbels, or having neo nazi private armies some of which are now incorporated into the official Uki army. Posing with nazi symbols, appointing people who founded the Ukrainian nazi party into positions of power and influence, elevating nazis to ministerial level and so on may also have something to do with it. The Ukrainian people did not vote for these nazis yet they were appointed simply because it was nazi muscle that made the coup.

When these nazi scum were sent to shell the people of the Donbass they had their asses handed to them. Very brave nazis shelling women and children.

From your very short comment it's clear that you need to do a bit of reading and growing.

Of course not. Now they resort back to telling us that we never delivered any facts and that it is us who do not know what is going on. A pattern well visible in Donbass today too when people are being told that they are being wrong "because they are". No point @ Harry

Why should Ukraine be exempt from normal democratic standards?

"elevating nazis to ministerial level"?

You are still seeing Nazis in charge of Ukrainian government ministries, Barney? Really? I have asked you countless times to go into detail about the people you claim are Nazis in charge of Ukrainian government ministries, but instead you just name people who aren't in charge of Ukrainian government ministries and aren't Nazis either, just as you make utterly untrue claims about the then acting Ukrainian president and about the actions of Kremlin commanded criminals. I'm really beginning to worry about your sanity: you clearly think that you can change reality into your fantasy world simply by the power of your belief that your fantasies are reality. It's quite sad really.

well..human rights.org claim that too...and its far more independent and reliable that fkin BBC...but its alright Harry..
you are making some progress..from quoting avakov,stopfake and SBU to BBC ..its still laughable sources but you got long way.
humanrightsinvestigations.org/2014/09/04/russian-tanks-in-t-72-ukraine-iiss-bbc

Hm... Maybe your next sentence will be about USSR as initiator of WW2?

Doesn't Polish elite of that time make everything they can to block any attempts of creating anti-Hitler coalition by Britain, France and USSR? Don't know what they thinked, maybe hoped to force USSR-Germany conflict and get some juicy pieces of USSR territories, just like they got Czesin (Teshin) area after division of Czechoslovakia, initiated by Germany. We all know what happened later. Soil for Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was thorougly fertilized, and Polish politicians take a significant part in the process.

Not the initiator of ww2 but a big facilitator.There is a notable difference.It doesnt matter what the polititians said or did, talk is talk, invasion is a different thing. I think that opposition guy that got blown away in moscow in the last day is a perfect example of russian backwardness.Unless something changes drastically russias future is with iran and north korea and other backward cretins.

not only,,even USSR tried to forge anty Hitler pact with Poland USSR and Turkey,at least That was Litvinow idea...polish "diplomats" laughed it off,saying Poland doesn't need any help against Germany..they were first to run away to London,once trouble kicked off..sending gold reserves before them of course.i read that book by william shirer...american journalist to germany..he was gobsmacked by polish diplomats arrogance

Polands today's "diplomats" remind me of those before WW2..arrogant sikorski,schetyna and such farce clowns.


your racist comments are sigh of your backwardness..second...nobody knows yet who is behind niemcov murder,and what motives..

Interesting point of view. Tell us, who was big facilitator of current ukrainian crisis...


So, we can just ignore what politicians said or did? ;) Very convenient... Maybe next step is to abolish parliaments and governments and move lots of useless people to some productive jobs? ;)


Nobody yet know what's really happened, but someone already decided something for yourself. ;) By the way, there is lot of versions now - some related to their young ukrainian girlfriend, that is just returned after some delicate medical treatement in Switzerland, some - to their possible deeply disappointed sponsors (possible not russian at all)...

Putin is one of last persons who may wish to see their deal body under walls of Kremlin, for sure.


Glad to hear that it is not the fate of Iraq, Libya or Kosovo.

agreed...it seems so convenient and media are making him a martyr already..even tho he was nobody ,not a thread to Putin,but some twitter hero

some interesting article by Marcin Mamon about jihadists activities in Ukraine:
firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/26/midst-war-ukraine-becomes-gateway-europe-jihad

Ok fair enough lets wait and see. I sort of agree that this guy gunned down is pretty bad for putin but here in australia we definately blame him and his stupid invasion for downing that plane over uki soil and killing innocent people. This will never change He is considered an utter despot here and is not welcome. He came to Brisbane for that summit last year no one wanted to deal with him. The pictures of sad lone putin were everywhere and he left early. At the same time propaganda machines from russia said something else lol it was very funny we all know why he left and the propaganda rubbish proved it even more. It will take ages for russians to regain the bad name he has made for them. The idiot if world leaders.

yea...not that Putin is an angel but this doesn't look like special forces job...they would kill him quietly not in front of Kremlin.lol

i found nice comment regarding this:
"I believe that if Boris Nemtsov was " liquidated " somewhere far away from the heart of Moscow, it would be possible to suspect someone else ,but since he fell down just outside the Kremlin in the heart of Moscow, who else could do it?especially he criticized Putin and Russians who do not want the so-called american democracy"

this is to be taken sarcastically as way to laugh from people who quickly blame Putin for this.