USA News and Poland - part 19

Oh... a huge clock. Nice trolling.

Still nothing that would justify an all-out war.

Thing is, how many of them were "real" or threatened by the Mullahs to do so?

That reminds me about the last big parade in East-Berlin, a huge party to celebrate the founding of the GDR....on 7th October 1989....and yes....many uniformed people, flag waving.....one observer could believe that most GDRians love their SED-leaders...and support this regime wholeheartedly....but you know what happened shortly after, don't you! :)

And I know that most of the ordered parading people danced on the fallen Berlin Wall only shortly after....showing their true beliefs and sympathies!

I guess it isn't different in any dictatorship!


Trolling?

Imagine something similiar....an openly hostile Germany, a "Doomsday clock" in Berlin, counting down the time till the destruction of Poland!

Would you react also that "blasè" about it? ;)

I know, yes.

However, I am wondering how would all those people have reacted if the USA decided to bomb the sh*t out of GDR to facilitate the regime change. Murdered schoolchildren, female voleyball players and thousands of other civilians with bombs and rockets and told Germans - "Hey, Germans, it's your chance - change your regime!".
My educated guess is that a lot of Germans in such case would rally around the regime to defend their country, especially that the regime would still have TV, press etc.


We would probably be mildly pissed about it, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to go to war over such idiotic propaganda stunt.

Seriously? I dunno....

But I remember that growing up in dire, gray, oppressive East-Berlin I often wished for the West do do something, ANYTHING to end it....

Maybe thats the main reason for the stand I take....I remember!

Hm... that's a huge difference to the Polish approach and the Solidarity revolution. We were willing to fight the regime at home and overthrow the communists but it is simply unimaginable for me that someone might have wanted the West to attack Poland and murder Polish civilians. The country would rally around the leadership (as corrupt as it might have been) and the Polish Army to defeat the aggressors.

I'm quite sure that's what will happen in Iran. Another galactic mess will be created and thousands of people will die - not to liberate Iranians (you can't be that naive to believe that's the reason USrael started this war) but to ensure Israel's hegemony in the region.

... but don't worry - I understand why it is difficult for you to speak against Israel's actions.

.....well....that is probably because "our West" was West-Berlin....West-Germany....the other half of us Germans, the more lucky half! *shrugs*


Yeah....that too.....all that quite anti-semitic Israel hating talk is not for me.....

Good point.


Nothing to do with anti-semitism in this case.

But there are some true anti-semites here on this forum (Amiga500 springs to mind)....and they really hope for Trump to fail! Its hard to draw a line here....

@Torq

You question my Christianity, yet you call for Poland to have nukes. Would Jesus want WMDs? Sounds kind of hypocritical huh?

Carry on PF fools with you daily anti American thepary sessions.

Just remember who saved your asses in the world wars the Europeans started.

The US saved Poland's ass ? Thanks - much appreciated

Reading how the euros truly feel about America. I wish our country never helped you Aholes in WWII. You would be eating sauerkraut for dinner tonight if it wasnt for the USA defenfing you ungrateful pigs.

Never again!

But we like sauerkraut - we even have our own word for it, kapusta kiszona. I make my own.

I do too.


What does it have to do with anything? How nukes are different than any other deathly weapons and having an army? Poland has an army in order to defend the country and deter an attack - the same would go for nukes. Is having an army for defense purposes "un-Christian", according to you?


Sorry, but, no, in my case it's anti-Trump and anti-MAGA :)))


Then you'd have to deal with not only China, RuSSia, but also Nazi Europe with loads of nukes. 🤦


It wasn't you or your generation who was fighting on the frontlines of World War II. Everyone is grateful to those who did.

However, the fact that the US did something good in the past doesn't mean it can't be criticised nowadays when it's doing something wrong. And, btw, you're talking like Putinist RuSSians. They also think that since the Soviet Union liberated Poland from the Nazis then Poles should shut up and never criticise RuSSia, because then they're "anti-RuSSian" and "ungrateful".

You can't hold others "hostage" like that over something that the generation of your grandparents did.

For Poland? Are you kidding me? Most definitely!

Come one - schizmatics (Russia) have nuclear weapons, heretics have nuclear weapons (USA, UK), atheists have nuclear weapons (France), as well as Hindu (India), buddhists/confucianists (China), Jews (Israel) and Muslims (Pakistan). Every false religion in the world has nuclear weapons but the Only True One - Catholicism - doesn't! It's a scandalous state of affairs if you ask me. Catholics definitely should have atomic weapons, just like every other major religion of the world has, and what better representative of Roman Catholicism to give nukes to than Poland? Eh?

Don't be ridiculous, Joker. Actually, thank you for the inspiration - I will have a t-shirt made with "Jesus Wants Nukes for Poland" on it.

It's not sympathy for the regime, BB. It's that this is not our (USia's) war ti fight. There is not a shred of evidence Iran was an immediate (hell, not even a distant) threat to America. This is Israel's war...and we are fighting it for them. THAT is the problem.

If we are to be liberators of the oppressed, where do we go next: NK? Sudan? Nigeria? Pakistan? Where?

This doesn't stop with Iran, BTW. Israel has Turkey on the radar.

dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/israeli-politicians-drum-up-turkiye-threat-as-focus-shifts-beyond-iran/amp


So have other regimes. Do we now go liberate them? And, it's not like we aren't guilty of offering gov protection of killing our own citizens...we just allow them to be killed before they are born.

It's not just the left who is upset about this. It also includes many on the right...me being one of them.

This has the potential if not high probability of causing wide-spread instability throughout the world. Shortages of oil and gas, another huge wave of mass migration, a wider regional war that includes other gulf states.

Trump ran and won on no wars. This defies that. Why? To do the bidding if a country that is only our friend in name only...but not deed.

The admin has said publicly Israel forced our hand. A country that relies on us to defend itself and who does jack for us, told us how this was going down. I, and others, voted for us to tell them nothings doing down except their a$& if they defy us.

....these Mullahs never made a difference between Israel and the US....or Europe!

Israel is for them "the West" in "their" region....once its done the rest of us is due, one should never forget that!

All these islamist terrorists killing Europeans and USians during the last decades, they did so for their mad reasons, they never confined themselves to israeli victims!
We all together stand between them and their global muslim extremist rule. Do not supporting Israel now would be like back in the world wars, when international govs believed the Nazis will have enough, once they got territoy back and had not so important countries like...say Poland....under their control.

But these ideological nutters NEVER stop....to believe its only Israel, and once they are destroyed then there will be peace, would be wrong again, as so often in history before!

.....NK is abit smarter than Teheran, they keep more or less to themselves...not threaten the whole West! (And it seems South Korea is able to handle them.)

Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan? The same....and there is no intelligence about any of them building their own nukes to be able to really wreak global havoc....


I guess he meant that in the run up to presidency! But being in office you have now access to super secret intelligence, just learning stuff you couldn't know before...and with these new infos things gotta chance!

....at least thats my estimation....

@Bratwurst Boy

What you are proposing is to green light attacking another country that is a perceived threat. It doesn't matter whether that country is indeed a threat-only the perception.

This logic accepts and promotes the Russian invasion of Ukraine, for one. Russia had a rational basis to fear NATO encroachment into Ukraine-NATO exists, in part, to counter Russia.

India and Pakistan have a rational basis to fear the other will attack, so this logic allows for an unprovoked conflagration.

NK and SK. It goes on and on.

There is another option: containment. The coalescing of Gulf states into a counterbalance was taking shape. This had the potential to heel Iranian aggression. Problem, is that it also threatened Israel's desire to be the big dog.

Hitching Israel to our engines is foolish. We care much more about them, than they do about us. They will abandon us quicker than an addict needing a fix.


C'mon BB, he spent 4 years in the office before this current term. This didn't blindside him.

Besides, he paraded around assuring us we destroyed Iran's nuclear capacity 8 months ago.


Doesn't need to be about nukes. Your logic is about the perception of a threat allowing for a preemptive strike. Conventional weapons still have the capacity to cause major destruction and death.

NO! Definitely not....of course the threat has to be real!

Hence I believe that Trump actually has very good reasons to attack Iran NOW....as he didn't during the bloody uprising before, as so many iranian people actually hoped for some reaction and help from Washington.

Additionally....and I repeat myself here....that suddenly the Saudis phoned and begged Trump to actually act now and offered an alliance, even with archenemy Israel....Anti, one can't estimate that huge change in the ME high enough.

Something happened to force Trumps action....to force Saudi action....NOW and decisively....something big....and frankly, there is only one possibility for me!

Of course its all still guess-work now....I hope we will know for sure soon!

An Italian general is basically saying the same thing that experts on Middle East are saying:

"An endless war with Iran? An Italian general: an internal coup could help":

wiadomosci.wp.pl/wojna-z-iranem-bez-konca-wloski-general-pomoze-tylko-wew-przewrot-7260220720539776a

He's saying that unarmed civilians would have to stand against two military blocks - a regular army and the Revolutionary Guard that together constitute around 500 000 troops. Polish army, which currently is the most numerous army in the EU, has over 210 000 soldiers.


That's because the West has been supporting Israel for years.


So it had nothing to do with the West supporting Israel and meddling in the Middle East?:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_the_September_11_attacks

I'm not condoning any terrorist acts in any way, but it's stupid to ignore one of the root causes why certain countries experienced serious Islamist terrorist attacks.

And, btw, the problem with Iran is of the West's own making.
Read about Iran's history. British and American colonialist attitude towards Iran, the US/UK-backed 1953 coup, supporting shah who's ruthless rule was the cause for the Iranian revolution.


True and you can spin the propaganda any way you want and tell all kinds of lies if the public is gullible or brainwashed enough... and here you have the perfect example:


xDDD

To compare Ukraine with Iran would mean Ukraine acting totally differently as it did!

Ukraine keeping their nukes and actually inviting NATO-troops to build bases in Ukraine....but they didn't!

Iran acting like Ukraine would had meant giving up their nuke-building program, allowing controllers to observe that, stopping funding the terrorist organizations in the ME and going into peace talks with Israel....but they couldn't be arsed!

There are huge differences between Ukraine and Iran....


I at least can admit that I don't know everything...that I don't have access to all this intelligence!

Wtf makes you so sure that YOU are right and know everything?

PS: On X and Youtube I found old videos how the Left jubilated about this "revolution"....they partied and felt so victorious....

But you know what? Only shortly after the Mullahs took power they started to jail and torture and murder the iranian left....if something the Mullahs hate as much as Jews its self determined self, self confident, educated women...the end of the Shah was also the end for the iranian Left!

What an own goal for the Left if there ever was one!

What are you on about? I don't claim that I'm "right and know everything." But at least I'm basing my conclusions on facts that are known and I'm not doing some wishful thinking about some "mysterious reasons" just to make Trump look good. 🙄


Just like everyone did, I'm guessing, since they thought it was the end of a dictatorship rule.


Why are you trying to somehow put the focus on the "left"? In 1953 the American president was Republican (Eisenhower) and in the UK the Conservative Party was in power (Winston Churchill was the prime minister). So the Western conservatives are responsible for the coup against a democratically elected government in Iran - the UK and the US put shah in power. If it wasn't for the shah's cruel rule, backed by the US and UK, there wouldn't be a reason for the Iranian revolution. Do you understand?

@AntV
Trump ran and won on America First. These extremists in Iran have been trying to kill Americans for nearly fifty years. It is long overdue that they are taken out. The whole country should have been turned into glass when these terrorists took over. The right is not upset, no true conservative would ever get upset about this. Show me someone saying Death to Poland, and I will show you someone who is an instant target. Do we see Americans saying Death to Iranians? No. Death to terrorists? Yes.

Wow, the MAGA cannibal is back. True American "Christian values" - the MAGA edition lol


So Tucker Carlson is not a "true conservative" according to you? :D

Seriously?


And right now its the Left who mainly jumble and mumble....officially stating they hate the Mullahs as anybody else but still also condemning Trump and Israel for doing something against them....but still not wanting to sound to much like the former left Mullah-sympathizer....difficult situation....so embarrassing, I understand!

Still hating the West...not very smart, this "anti-imperialist" Left....


Anyhow....have to leave again.....dammit! :(

*waves* :)

That's... a stretch.

As others have mentioned, the US an UK started the cycle of violence, after Mossadegh nationalized the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (that became BP).

Instead of the popular leader that they killed and deposed, they installed a brutal and corrupt monarchy (headed by an impostor whose father was merely an officer in a Cossack Brigade).

The Shah proceeded to create one of the most notorious security agencies (SAVAK) that tortured and "disappeared" thousands of people.

He banned all political parties, except the one he created, and then told Iranians that they have the choice of either joining his party, or leaving the country.

He put all his relatives in every sector of the economy, and did things that would make Imelda Marcos look like a saint. Sending Boeing 747s to fly French chefs and champagnes to his parties, gifting Western women jewelry worth millions (even as most Iranians lived in poverty).

And the entire time he was in power - the West protected him, and made billions of dollars through selling him weapons and extracting the country's mineral wealth.

So maybe it's understandable that Iran was not friendly towards the patrons of their tormentor?

Oh... I almost forgot - right after their Revolution you helped Saddam for ten years as he tried to erase them. Closing your eyes to his use of chemical weapons, and targeting of critical civilian infrastructure - like thousand year old irrigation networks.

Yes, seriously. You singled out the left even though it was "a diverse coalition" and you're completely ignoring the fact that it was two Western countries (and conservatives at that) that created the Iran problem in the first place by meddling in sovereign country's business.


Judging by the comments on Polish social media it's also Polish nationalists. I'm guessing it has something to do with their "lack of love" for Jews :)

Braun's party is on the Iran's side which I guess shouldn't come as surprise lol:

wyborcza.pl/7,75398,32633626,front-gasnicowy-brauna-po-stronie-iranu-teheran-warszawa.html

Politicians from Konfederacja seem to be more careful, but also sceptical about the attack on Iran.

Yes, from what I remember from the interview with dr Bryc the UK and the US were taking away 90% of Iranian oil leaving only 10% for Iranians. Mossadegh wanted to put an end to this exploitation of Iran and that's why the UK and the US organised the coup and put the pro-Western shah in power. It was all about oil. As always, it seems...


Yup. The French intelligence service and CIA helped to establish SAVAK and taught them everything. CIA provided also funding:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK