2016 Presidential Elections in the US

You are right Adrian,even multi mullionaires are dime a dozen in developed countries.Infact even 3 mil USD dont get one very far these days to retire.Think of a house worth 500k (normal one) cpl of cars health insurance etc will not get one far after maintaining the house and all.Until one has a substantial income life can be hard as well living off zupa & booka.And forget about travelling(not to eastern block/africa/asia) etc.Forget it if you have to pay 70K a year college going kids.
Maybe it might be possible in Poland but certainly not under cpl mil $.Yeah,dont forget one can also live with 2000Zees PM income also but that is living a life of Immigrant english teacher.

It takes $100k household income to enter into the top quintile in the US. That's really not much money. The middle class use to be able to afford vacations, new cars, 1 breadwinner, health insurance, etc. Now, even a household - say 3 people a father, mother, and child - living on $100k combined (say $60k for the male $40k for the female) is going to have a hard time paying for the kid's college. After taxes, $100k quickly goes down to around $75k depending on your state. Subtract rent/mortgage, food, gas, utilities, and other necessities and the family isn't left with very much. Even paying for a state college at around $15k-$20k a year would be rather difficult and tuition alone not even counting books, room & board, etc. Now the middle class takes road trips or flights to local destinations in the US - a cruise, vacation to Mexico is something you have to save a while for and a vacation to Europe, costing several grand a person, if oftentimes an unattainable luxury. This group will live well like they're not going to starve and tend to be educated so they have job security but having those 'extras' in life that use to be commonplace like vacations, health insurance, a new car, a small vacation cabin, a cheap boat or RV, etc. are now becoming luxuries even for the higher classes. My father makes good money since he's worked decades to establish himself but even though he's in perhaps the top 5% of incomes in the US but aside from having a nice suburban home that he remodeled himself, he doesn't live like an extravagant lifestyle. He has a 10 year old van, drives a car he paid $30k for in 2010 as like the 2nd car he shared with my mom, hasn't been on vacation in years, and just recently got health insurance. He's wanted to do his teeth but unless he goes to Poland or Mexico for the work, it's pretty much unrealistic. He won't worry about the lights being shut off or being unable to put gas in the cars, but he's basically working for just the 'needs' of a modern developed society but there is little to no money left for luxuries.

Now think of the remaining 80%... there are so many people living paycheck to paycheck and quite frankly I don't know how they do it. Like a Walmart worker or Amazon warehouse worker makes about $260-$280 a week. I just don't know how they can do it like that's just making enough to eat and put gas in the car. Utilities and rent they'd probably have to split amongst several people to be able to afford it. What about clothes, doctors, dentists, etc. even?

Yeah, which is precisely my point, i am a slave.


Yup, i hate the fact that i have to slave instead of being able to spend more time with my family and do the things i actually enjoy doing.


But Adrian every anti capitalist post i make you're right there along with others disagreeing with me. Your above post is exactly why I'm anti capitalism. This is what i mean by environmental conditioning, you and others like you are conditioned to support the status quo even though you know something is very not right.

The revolution is essentially a revolution of social values, whats really important. You may understand that but if you carry on with the journey you will.

Watch the Zeitgeist Addendum on youtube and come back and we'll talk. I will carry my values to my grave with me. Everybody must 'wake up' if we are to ever break out of a monetary (labour for money) based social system.

I'll check it out. I'm just debating you - I respect your opinion and it's nothing against you - it's just a friendly debate.

However, I don't think that wanting to break away from this slavery is a bad thing and one of the best ways to do it is by becoming wealthy which takes hard work, saving, and reinvesting. Yes some people will get 'lucky' and win the lottery or be born into the right family so they don't have to go through these sacrifices. There's a certain phrase called 'F**K YOU MONEY' so you can tell the bank - F**K YOU, car payment - F**K YOU, boss - F**K YOU...

You can't really make F**k you money in a socialist quasi communist society unless you steal it or are a politician. There haven't been many individuals that were able to break out of financial servitude in socialist communist countries by working hard, saving, and reinvesting. In a capitalist society though it is possible.

If you're willing to work harder than the rest, come up with a better idea than the rest, you will be rewarded.

I don't support the status quo in the sense that I don't slave at work so I can pay off 20%+ interest from credit cards because i just NEEDED that new tv, I don't have a $500 a month car payment because my old mercedes runs perfect and is in like museum condition, and I don't have student loans weighing my down because I got good scores on the ACT in college and got a grant, went to community college for pre-reqs- and worked full time while going to school. I bought a new car one time in my life and I never will again - even if I'm a millionaire I'd go with pre-owned because a new car is a waste of money and I realize that wasting money is stupid. These things take sacrifices but most people can't do it. The reason why I did all this is so I don't live just to work. I work so I can live. One day, I know my hard work will pay off and I'll have enough money where I can tell my boss 'F**k you! I have F**k you money!!' and then I'll most likely move to Poland.

I feel more sorry for the lower classes because it really does cost more money to be poor - you're more likely to overdraw your bank account, you can't buy as many groceries so you have to take more trips hence burning more gas, you have to use credit cards to pay for necessities, etc. However, if these people are smart they can overcome their situation and have 'F**k you money' one day too. In a socialist society, sure their lives may be better in the short term but the chances of making f**k you money are much smaller.

I agreed with you that socialism and communism is a better system for the poor, low skilled, low educated, etc. but it is not a good system for those that are ambitious. I have read the Communist Manifesto and I understand the pro's of socialism and the con's of capitalism. Capitalism is ruthless, greedy, ambitious, cut throat, but is totally fair in the sense that everyone is given a chance at an opportunity to succeed. You are rewarded for the goods and services you provide to the society - limited goods and services limited rewards i.e. a waitress is going to be paid less than a surgeon due to the type of service she provides. It creates an environment where those who wish to succeed and become rich are given an environment where they are able to. Even if you are from the poorest ghetto and have a crackhead mother - you still have a chance to succeed and it's up to you whether you make the choice to get out of your situation or live with what society expects you to become. Likewise, if you wish to be lazy and decide that you don't feel like working hard to overcome your situation, you can also chose to live off the government in section 8 and receive welfare. The taxpayers will take care of you so you don't starve or freeze to death, again in modern capitalist countries like the US or UK, but you won't be given much since you do not provide a good or service in return. Even if you chose the middle route between wealth and poverty, say you become a welder, you will be compensated for that service and live the life of a welder. It's up to the person what they wish to become.

In socialism, in theory everyone is equally middle class which takes away a lot of personal choice. In the extreme version, communism, production quotas are set by government and there is little to no incentive for going above the quota. In a socialist society, some will take advantage of the system and work less and still be able to reap the same rewards as someone who worked more than you. The more ambitious individuals will try to gather additional income and personal properties in whatever way they can - usually not through hard work because everyone is compensated similarly so they may resort to illegal or unethical acts. There is not much financial incentive to obtain a white collar job like a doctor in socialism. There aren't many people who spend 12 years to become a surgeon for purely altruistic reasons. Some of the best jobs in communist countries for the proletariat were ones that dealt with cash or highly prized items - taxi driver, jeweler, meat distributor, etc. Being a coal miner was actually one of the highest paying jobs you could have. Unless there was a way to manipulate a human mind so that everyone is equally ambitious, equally not lazy, has no sense of greed or envy, then perhaps socialism and communism would work. Socialist democratic systems like Sweden work well because the population is fairly small and equal. 1/5 Swedes are not receiving food stamps like 1/5 Americans. The citizens are hard working and there is not a burden to support a significant portion of the population that doesn't want to work. Also, in Sweden the more ambitious individuals can chose a path that will lead them to wealth. In a similar way, the less ambitious lazier individuals who chose to not work as hard and not pursue a path that will lead them to wealth can stay at home and be supported by the tax payers so that they don't starve and freeze to death. However, the percent of those lazy individuals who chose not to work in Sweden is far lower than the percent of lazy non workers in the U.S. This means that there is more workers employed, hence more taxes for the government, hence less money going out to those who don't feel like working and more money for programs that benefit everyone - not just the enormous welfare class like in the US.

He or she wouldn't be working for free. The train owner would create jobs by being unable to maintain and operate this train on his own so he would have to pay a wage obviously. For sure, some employed people regard themselves as "wage slaves", but that's their fault for not properly negotiating their salaries or not leaving and taking their skills and education to another employer who is paying more.


The train owner may be idle rich but most likely not. If such a person can own a train then he will want it to use it to generate profits - be it by charging passengers for transportation use or charging admission to ferroequinologists and tourists to see it as part of an exhibition. Either undertaking would require employees and wages for them.

While on the subject of being asset rich, you started another thread recently about a house you renovated and are looking to sell. So are you saying that you used the builders and roofers as slaves in order to enrich yourself? You should assure everyone here that you will not be making any sort of profits off this house. So how are you going to redistribute the money you get on this place? And why sell when you can just donate it to those in need? There's already a Senegalese man in Gdynia who is looking for a home. Since your mate Doug has done nothing to help him up to this point maybe he'll at the very least grab his dog and drive (or get a train ticket for) this poor man so that he can get to the new home you'll be giving to him gratis.

Why don't you yanks just say transport, whats with the long winded transportation every time?

Go ask a Yank.

But back to the topic of being asset rich. Have you used slaves to renovate your home? Will you give assurances you won't be making any profits off of it? Will you be redistributing all money made in a sale or will you be donating your house to someone in need?

D'you mean "off-the-books" labor aka illegal Mexicans, for instance, to do domestic housework?? Plenty do. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was one, and she got into a wee bit of trouble because of it:-)

You're trying in your post to expose the gaping hypocrisies in the daily lives of the 1%, are you?
Well lots of luck!!

Whilst we live in a monetary based system i will obviously not be giving mine away, no. Your attempts at irony are wasted mate. All the other stuff you posted is also not worthy of a reply. I know you think you're onto something but trust me, you really aren't.

Oh, I disagree! The whole system of contemporary capitalism as she's practiced now in the States practically cries out for caricature.
Cheers for the hearty attempt there, matey:-)

Łyżka

^Can somebody translate this for me?^

The double standard in our society is so vast, I'd scarcely know just where to begin to explain it all.

No, I think he is onto something, I guess Socialism isn't for everybody is it? Not worthy? look at you Mr. high all mighty

I don't trust you


Yes, exactly

Good, you shouldn't give away trust easily.


Exactly what? you don't have a clue what he's talking about.

Of course you won't. You are looking after number one. And you made it abundantly clear on here over that years as well that you expect others (in particular those richer than yourself) to make the first move towards communal egalitarian living. That's very British of you I must say.

But someone has to set the example. Or rather more to the point practice what they preach.

It's foolish and hypocritical of you to be criticizing property moguls like Trump when you are playing in the amateur leagues of the same game. And you know full well that you don't have to. What you are doing now is entirely of your own volition. You can easily go to some kumbaya country and help others without any need for money such as digging ditches and emptying bedpans in exchange for food. But you won't.


Oh, go on. If you can talk out both sides of your mouth I'm sure you can type with both hands and give a reply explaining yourself to me. Or don't you want to contradict yourself any more than you already have?

Don't know where you're getting your information from but thats not really similar to anything I've been posting since about 2011.


I could but it would be wasted.

I also remember that you're a bit of a thicko, and i don't attempt to reason with the un-reaonsable.

I count myself as an "I'm-in-it-for-No. 1" capitalist! Always have been, and I expect always will be. I certainly cast no stones at the mega rich, as I possess the true cynic-wannabe's understanding of the inherent "unfairness" built into the capitalist system, as transformed from Adam Smith according to Ronald Reagan.

While I don't support his programs of denying children school lunches etc., I have a European socialist's eye for "charity" coupled with a capitalist's sense for economic pragmatism.

If tax-paying citizens a la Roosevelt sincerely need the proverbial helping hand, I believe government (including the private sector) should be there to lend one. I do though staunchly believe in the sanctity of "My home is my castle!", and you'll never have seen yours truly emptying ANYONE'S bedpans in exchange for food, as someone posted earlierLOL

I further believe that there should be a sort of British-style pecking order for foreigners to this country, newly arrived and either skilled or unskilled:-) AMERICANS by birth and education should be first in line, NOT cheap labor from all corners of the globe, the often unwitting slaves of American industrialists aka Mr. Donald Trump!!!!

Don't be so coy now. It wasn't that long ago under your former username Wroclaw Boy you were enthusiastically posting absurd videos like the one of the uberwealthy hypocrite Matt Damon reading excerpts of the writings from crypto-communist, anarchist and tenured (of course) Howard Zinn.


Ah, yes, you can't defend your position when challenged so you just start hurling insults. Trump has been criticized for doing the same thing too. And like you he has British ancestry, a passion for property, and penchant for Slavic women as well. Hmmm. Do you have enough hair to style yours like his?

Anyway, you lost the argument and I accept your surrender.

Scottish-French to be exact, on his mother's side:-)

Ahah, I laughed when I read this, Yosemite is Trump :'D he's been using reverse psychology to get votes

before you get all agitated, I know you are not Trump

Thanks. You're right about him using reverse psychology. He is just suffering from wallet envy.

Yes! And the French speaking Normans with their thirst for conquest made England and hence Scotland what it is today. Quite incestuous.

They went from conquering lands in the past to flipping houses today all for the sake for filling their coffers to the brim and at the expense of others. It's definitely something in the genes.

The latest proof that Trump's campaign promises are mostly hot air:

Quote:
"The U.S. Department of Labor has confirmed to CNN that between 2013 and fall 2015, Trump's Mar-a-Lago club posted 250 seasonal job openings and filled just 4 of those jobs with American workers."

money.cnn.com/2016/03/18/news/economy/trump-maralago/index.html

Who would have thought, eh? :)

Then you have nothing to worry about

Unlike you, who seems to be living somewhere down in Tea Party land (are you?), I still care about this country and its future...

I think trump will be next usa president.

Why when you are a German ?

Black supporters of Donald Trump, what a nice and positive people.

youtube.com/watch?v=j7_Hxvitzm8

Nope, in fact I've never been there before

He was being sarcastic ;)

Again... as you're not getting this...... whilst we live in a monetary based capitalist social system why would i give my money away? You cant blame people operating the way they do within a system designed to operate that way. I have a family, i have commitments, i require money to provide for them. Its the system thats at fault not the individual.


Again...see above answer.


See above answer.


Again see above point. How i operate and provide for my family is not my own choice at all. I am forced to be a slave for economic gain. I despise being part of a system that i essentially disapprove of. However, i am quite effective at making money as it happens.


Why would i do that? why give away money when we require it within this system to live decent lives.

How many more times are you going to trot out the same boring content?


Again see above answer. What fundamental change would me volunteering for work in a third world country bring to society? How seriously dumb are you mate? Me volunteering would be one person out of over 7,000,000,000. Its a drop in the ocean, and we have volunteers. What we really need is grass roots change, and I'm not talking about the kind of change Politicians say just to get elected and then they carry on where the last guy left off.


Again see point about the system being at fault rather than individuals operating within that system. You had one point...The hypocritical one and you used it again and again and again thinking you were onto something.

B-o-r-i-n-g, and not worthy of a reply.


Ohh looks he's banging on about his hypocrisy again, dude do you have any other arguments? Yes a great speech by a famous person to try and promote equality and good will in order to benefit the masses.

Heres the actual video:
youtube.com/watch?v=S2li9E_94MA

We need more people like this.

Im not a socialist as such, i support a NLRBE (Natural Law Resource Based Economy)......and to explain that would require much more time than I'm willing to sacrifice on a Saturday.

edited