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Priority of Buildings signals what matters to a Nation - Germany



Tacitus
6 Mar 2019  #31

because they recognize similiarities like a "gleichgeschaltete Median...Journalist with "Haltung" etc....ever thought about that one?

It seems many East Germans are still traumatized by their experience in the GDR. Or else they would never come up with such comparisons. Just because the majority in Germany view things different than e.g. people in deep Saxony, it does not mean that the Presse is "gleichgeschaltet". You don't need to be in government employment to understand that Merkel's decision in 2015 was the only humane one.

To kill East Germany without putting it to a referendum was an awful idea.

That is not true at all. The election in 1990 was de facto a plebiscite over German reunification, and the party that promised immediate reunification (CDU) won, whereas those who tried to maintain the independence of the GDR did not even get above the 5% threshold. Keeping the GDR alive after the elections was a completely unrealistic scenario.

Bratwurst Boy
6 Mar 2019  #32

Traumatized, or I would call it "aware"!

You have no idea how many Ossies got goosebumps watching the german media during the high time of the refugee crisis 2015 as virtually ALL papers from the left till even to the BILD wrote one and the same opinion, who dared to differ was screamed down. It was eerie enough to let the hair in the neck of an Ossi to stand up...but maybe nothing suspicious to a Wessi.

Who probably still thinks, hey...it was a good decision, it was humane...who needs the cautious warner or the naysayer anyhow.

I tell you who needs them, a real living democracy needs them, a real free and independent media needs them!!!

Maybe you also thought nothing about it that the german media didn't immediately report about the events at Silvester in Köln...and the lame explanations for it that the editorial staffs didn't think it would be good to report about it because of the impact it would make on the people...so they hoped to ignore it....not the facts was the important thing, not the event and the duty to report all of it unbiased, like good and independent journalists have sworn to do....no, the impact and the effect could be unwanted and difficult so we better omit what happened!

A behaviour of the media the people in the East remember only to well!

But you find it probably all okay and reasonable, because you are a Wessi?

But Germany changed in these times....and not for the better! The trust what was lost then won't be gained back so easily...Honestly, Tacitus....I never thought I would have to see a journalist with "Haltung" in my life again after the wall fell...never, that the Eduard von Schnitzlers had died out for good. But now we have the Reschkes and co. That's not what the people back then fighted for. Such a thing doesn't belong into a living and working democracy.

Maybe its time for Wessis to rethink some things too...that maybe not everything is as it should be in our country!

delphiandomine
6 Mar 2019  #33

The election in 1990 was de facto a plebiscite over German reunification, and the party that promised immediate reunification (CDU) won

Weren't they promising economic and social union rather than political union, though? I'd need to go back to check, but it's my understanding that the CDU proposal was swift economic/monetary/social union (i.e. DM and no more border controls) with administrative reform to enable political union 'later'.

Keeping the GDR alive after the elections was a completely unrealistic scenario.

Was it really so unrealistic, bearing in mind the problems caused by rapid unification? East Germany would have needed huge cash injections, but it wasn't like the state was completely ungovernable.

Looking at it from outside, I still think the key problem was that it wasn't a unification or merger, but rather West Germany swallowing East Germany and imposing the West German way of doing things on them. Had they negotiated unification as equals and agreed on a new Constitution for a new sovereign Germany, maybe things would have been different in terms of mentality in the eastern Lander.

Throwing it out there, maybe one better idea would have been to unify, but for West Germany and East Germany to become entities similar to the modern day Republika Srpska and the Federation of Bosnia-Hercegovina in Bosnia?

Lyzko
6 Mar 2019  #34

Whether or not re-unification ought to have been postponed, I really can't say.
The time seemed ripe though and as we often say, there's no time like the present!

If one's been cooped up for so long, sooner rather than later, that person's going to want out:-)

Bratwurst Boy
6 Mar 2019  #35

East Germany would have needed huge cash injections, but it wasn't like the state was completely ungovernable.

There had been successors to Honecker, Mielke und Co...but nobody liked or respected them...who trusts an opportunists who just a few days back still swore an oath to the party and socialism...how should they reform the economical and political mess of the GDR into a viable, democratic county?

Lyzko
6 Mar 2019  #36

Don't forget either ol' Hans Modrow!LOL

Bratwurst Boy
6 Mar 2019  #37

Yeah...Modrow...still a deep red sock like no other!

Lyzko
6 Mar 2019  #38

?? "Deep red sock? Mal wieder auf Deutsch, bitte?

TheOther
6 Mar 2019  #39

Rote Socke = communist

Bratwurst Boy
6 Mar 2019  #40

?? "Deep red sock?

You didn't know this? :)

A slight derogatory meant denomination for a hard leftist...and yeah as TheOther said, a commie..

Lyzko
6 Mar 2019  #41

I know "Du linke Sau!" and the like, but forgot about the other oneLOL

TheOther
6 Mar 2019  #42

"Du linke Sau!"

Too offensive, unless you enjoy being beaten up.

"Rote Socke" reminds me of an old GDR joke:

Q: Warum ist das DDR Klopapier so rauh?
A: Damit auch der letzte Arsch rot wird.

:)

Lyzko
6 Mar 2019  #43

Ha-ha-ha!
Aber Mensch biste derb:-)

Bratwurst Boy
6 Mar 2019  #44

Heh:) A great joke...I take it with me as I have to go :)

'night all :)

Tacitus
7 Mar 2019  #45

the CDU proposal was swift economic/monetary/social union (i.e. DM and no more border controls) with administrative reform to enable political union 'later'.

That was the initial proposal shortly after the wall went down and a swift reunification looked unrealistic because of the possible resistance of the 4 occupational powers. That changed however quickly in late 1989, when it became clear that swift reunification looked more and more possible.

Was it really so unrealistic, bearing in mind the problems caused by rapid unification?

If anything, German reunification simply revealed problems that would have been impossible to cover up anyway.

Lyzko
7 Mar 2019  #46

It revealed deep chinks (Risse) in the already corroding armour of social decay!

Ziemowit
7 Mar 2019  #47

Too much opposition - first and foremost the Brits, French, Dutch and Poles.

Tell me, schatz, why do you think that Poles were against the re-unicication of Germany? A far as I can remember, this was not the case.

Followed by a mass exodus to West Germany.

The exodus happened despite the re-unification.

Ziemowit
7 Mar 2019  #48

There had been successors to Honecker, Mielke und Co...but nobody liked or respected them..

But you had Frau Merkel in East Germany who in the course of time could have done wonders for an independent, Soviet ideology-free DDR.

Tacitus
7 Mar 2019  #49

Tell me, schatz, why do you think that Poles were against the re-unicication of Germany?

Because they feared that a reunited Germany would want to revise the border to Poland. Which is why the Polish government did a lot to stall the negotiations, by demanding that Kohl would give a binding guarantee for Poland's Western border in the name of a reunited Germany before reunification took place. Something Kohl was legally unable to do, because well, he was not yet chancellor of a reunited Germany.

The exodus happened despite the re-unification

It would have been much worse otherwise. And less legally organized, making it more disadvantegeous for both sides. The swift reunification made it also possible to quickly invest incredibly huge amount of money in the decaying former GDR. That was no doubt made easier by the fact that it was now part of the country, and not a seperate entity. Everything pointed from am German perspective pointed to a quick reunification being the most desireable outcome, and Kohl to his credit grasped this opportunity.

Something else to keep in mind: German reunification has proven overwhelmingly positive for the East Germans. Life expectancy is now en par with the West, and the average GDP is 80% of the West, up from 30% in 1989. That is an amazing achievement within one generation.

TheOther
7 Mar 2019  #50

Tell me, schatz

Schatz? Don't think so. :)

As Tacitus said, Poland was afraid that Germany would demand a revision of the border. The so-called "Vertriebenenverbände" in West Germany were quite powerful and active at that time, and Kohl's CDU was massively influenced by them. Fortunately, he was clever enough to not let them pressure him.

The exodus happened despite the re-unification.

The exodus after reunification had economic reasons. Much of the East German industry was in shambles, and many people had only one choice: to move west.

Bratwurst Boy
7 Mar 2019  #51

But you had Frau Merkel in East Germany who in the course of time could have done wonders for an independent.

I seriously doubt that....at that time she was still a "Mädchen", how Kohl called her...with no authority or experience whatsoever.

Lyzko
7 Mar 2019  #52

...although she was brought up in Hamburg, in the West, to a pastor father, and so remained loyal to the old GDR merely owing to an accident of birth:-)

Her allegiances were clearly to the West, initial socialistic upbringing notwithstanding.

Whoops, got things ass backwards. Nonetheless, a very Western- thinking woman

Bratwurst Boy
7 Mar 2019  #53

She could have become a legendary SPD leader.... :)

Tacitus
7 Mar 2019  #54

Instead she became one of Germany's greatest chancellors. Not a bad trade off.

Bratwurst Boy
7 Mar 2019  #55

Instead she became

Only in the minds of her fans...

Lyzko
7 Mar 2019  #56

Who else really matters though, B.B.? It's not a leader's job to pander to bigotry and national indifference to world suffering, but to raise the bar....no matter whose toes they step on:-) Merkel is saying, "We Germans can do better!" As one of them, she'd know best about how to handle her own kind, cajole them when need be, scold and figuratively "slap 'em around" a little when they misbehave. The common man, don't forget is usually not much above a mere child in the simplistic nature of their thinking. Hate to say it, but it's all too true.

Bratwurst Boy
7 Mar 2019  #57

Who else really matters though, B.B.?

Thing is most of her fans are not the voter the CDU was founded for and did good work for decades before Merkel took over.

(Leaders of the leftist Greens have been officially stated to PRAY for her staying power, believe it or not. As most conservative CDU voter got sick in their stomachs)

As one of them, she'd know best about how to handle her own kind,

Oh please...she is an Ossi and she didn't do **** for the East!

Hate to say it, but it's all too true.

And you know why you hate to say it...because it's crap!

Its the same kind of "reasoning" why people want to re-instate monarchy or ask for a strong leader...or a one-party rule...and you should know how that always ends!

Weimarer
7 Mar 2019  #58

@Lyzko

Fun fact...merkel cant go east germany without facing heavy attacks. She is burned down so much, her own party declared her persona non grata in the upcoming elections in thüringen, sachsen and brandenburg.

Lyzko
7 Mar 2019  #59

By "burned down so much", I figure you mean her likeness was burned in effigy by her enemies!

@B.B.,

One man's crap is another man's truth:-) As far as her being an "Ossi", her speech pattern says different. Plus, her old man was a preacher who nevertheless managed to maintain his Christian faith amid a state of godless heathens which prayed instead to Homo RidiculusLOL

Bratwurst Boy
7 Mar 2019  #60

As far as her being an "Ossi",

Yeah...well...you could also say she is polish because her grandparents had been Poles...*eye roll*

She grew up in the East and was schooled like the rest of us inclusive Junge Pioniere and FDJ....that makes her an Ossi.

Again, if she would had chosen any other party but the CDU I would maybe even applaud her too. But she didn't. And we all suffer for it!


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