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Religion discussion - muslims, jews, buddhist, and christians


Crow
29 Sep 2018  #691

Merged:

Polish, Czech, Serbian Orthodox Churches firmly support Russian O. Church in dispute with Ukranian O. Church



Here is the hint

Newly formed Ukrainian Orthodox Church wants illegally to separate from Russian O. Church. But its not main problem. In Orthodox Christianity, when one have national Church, one is considered to actually have full independence and its own national state. Now, Patriarch of all Orthodox Churches Bartolomei, supported by Greeks (and who knows whom), wants prematurely to recognize new Ukrainian Orthodox Church, in situation when Ukrainian people and state still didn`t clear its situation with Russian people and ROC. After all, Ukrainian ethos as it is, still is from within separated on real Ukrainians and Russians. People didn`t decide of its ethnicity. In addition, Ukraine is far to be independent state but is heavily influenced by Germanic factor.

As outcome and side effect of events we have new situation in Orthodox Christianity. That is, Slavic Orthodox Churches stay on one side supporting Moscow Patriarchate, while other Orthodox Christians support Head of all Orthodox Churches. So, Slavs on one side, others against them. This situation occurred for the first time in history of Orthodox Christianity. Much more then dispute between Moscow and Kiev is here at stake. Actually, we see that Slavic Orthodox Churches and Christians seek for even bigger independence from other Orthodox Churches. It especially suits to those circles within Slavic Christians that suggests promotion of even more elements of pre-Chrstian Slavic tradition within Christianity so that is Church even closer with people and more unique.

I will later provide source link for news in English.

Ironside
29 Sep 2018  #692

Newly formed Ukrainian Orthodox Church wants illegally to separate from Russian O. Church.

Russian Ox Church has zero legal or moral authority they are just Moscow's rulers obedient lap dogs.

Slavictor
30 Sep 2018  #693

I do enjoy what this popular russian priest had to say about relations between women and men:

"The Hard Truth about Women - Smirnov"
youtube.com/watch?v=jLJp3AY3A7E

delphiandomine
30 Sep 2018  #694

Polishforums, not Russianforums.

Crow
30 Sep 2018  #695

Russian Ox Church has zero legal or moral authority they are just Moscow's rulers obedient lap dogs.

One problem at a time. Russian Orthodox Church is Russian.True. But, Ukraine as state isn`t yet defined. As state it was created by Russians and Ukrainians. Frankly to be said, when Ukraine was formed as entity within Russian Empire, Ukrainians as nation didn`t even exist. Than also frankly to be said, Poles and Serbs also gave contribution to formation of Ukraine. Now we see that ethnic Ukrainians wants to have their own and only their own ethnic state for the first (!) time in history. Its fine, they have right to wish so but, they have to negotiate with Russians about borders of new Ukrainian state. It would be also fine if somebody ask Poles, Serbs and especially Ruthenians what they think of it and what they wish for themselves but, you, same as myself, know pretty well that nobody ask us. Plus, add to it that Germans and western Europe lead process of formation of Ukrainian state and nation. Its ugly and sinister.

That is why I like to see that Orthodox Christian Slavs support Russian Orthodox Church here. Let Ukraine find way to consolidate Ukrainians state in proper negotiations with Russia and ethnic Russians. If Russians don`t wish to accept Ukraine, in regions where they are majority, nobody has moral or any right to force them to accept it. Then, when ethnic Ukrainian state is consolidated in its real borders, Ukrainian Orthodox Church can be independent from ROC. It would then come as natural.

I heard Vatican is very active in Ukraine, too. Good. I support all what can help that Slavs stop to kill each others. I know Pope love Slavs and he will help.

Rich Mazur
9 Oct 2018  #696

This in not an attempt to offend anyone here. But when the pope lists Satan as the co-conspirator in the acts of child rape, I get seriously pissed off because he thinks we are all stupid and actually believe that Satan actually exists. Unless, of course, he, Satan, is the current pope trying to cover up for the vice-Satans who actually did the dirty work.

Now we need a woman who would swear that the pope raped her sixty years ago. That should get him fired.

Bratwurst Boy
9 Oct 2018  #697

I dunno about a raped woman, but there is proof that the pope back then in Argentine as he wasn't a pope already showed big time lenience to child molesters. He kept them around, ignored the victims, advanced them to higher position to get them out of the cross hairs etc. So that behaviour as pope isn't new for him.

As I see it the noose get's tighter and tighter...I guess he won't be one of those popes keeping the job till they die.

johnny reb
9 Oct 2018  #698

I get seriously pissed off because he thinks we are all stupid and actually believe that Satan actually exists.

Just look at some of Satan's useful idiots that post here if you don't think Satan exists.

jon357
9 Oct 2018  #699

Satan's useful idiots

Tons of them, sadly.

It's as if some people who gladly trumpet about 'Christian values' have missed the whole point of His message, and missed His most important commandment.

I suspect that if He returned today to most developed 'Christian' countries, many people would not like him at all. In much poorer places (including a lot of the Muslim world) they'd get the message of the Last Supper perfectly. It's those who pretend that they need little and that others need less who don't get the message on a broader scale.

johnny reb
9 Oct 2018  #700

I suspect that if He returned today many people would not like him at all.

jon it does my heart so much good to see that you finally acknowledge His existence.

Rich Mazur
9 Oct 2018  #701

As an ex-believer, I don't understand the necessity of practicing religion. Especially the type which includes allowing an unsupervised contact between clergy and kids. I have no problem with accepting the basics: God, Heaven, Hell, angels and even the miracles. Once that is done, which is similar to learning and accepting the penal code or the rules of the road, why go to church every Sunday? Even the Holy Communion is a one-time event that can be done without much preparation beyond a simple, 5-minute explanation what it's all about. When done at home by the parents, it would be safe as there would be no priests, no rapes, and no cover-ups.

Vlad1234
9 Oct 2018  #702

they have right to wish so but, they have to negotiate with Russians about borders of new Ukrainian state.

How do you propose to draw a strict border between "ethnic Ukrainians" and "ethnic Russians"? What principle? Self definition?

johnny reb
10 Oct 2018  #703

My Father taught me that if someone wants to be a good liar then they have to have a good memory.

I am now an atheist and don't buy any of that holy this and holy that

You posted that around June 1, 2018.
Now yesterday October 9, 2018 you say just the opposite.

I have no problem with accepting the basics: God, Heaven, Hell, angels and even the miracles.

Then you don't qualify as an atheist Rich showing how confused you are on this issue.

Do you know why miracles are lies? Because never in the history on mankind, an amputee got his own arm back.

How about when the soldier took his sword and cut off the ear of a dude and then Jesus picked his ear up off the ground and reattached it to the side of the guys head like nothing ever had happened as the dudes ear was as good as new ?

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #704

finally

'Finally'? His existence as a historical figure is in no real doubt at all. The rest is best looked at phenomenologically.

johnny reb
10 Oct 2018  #705

His existence as a historical figure is in no real doubt at all

Bless you jon.

The rest is best looked at phenomenologically.

Only for those who lack Faith jon.

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #706

Or even the opposite. Looking at religions from the outside rarely shakes true faith, and is a good exercise for all who claim to believe.

johnny reb
10 Oct 2018  #707

religions from the outside rarely shakes true faith

That is an oxymoron jon as true faith is the Believers religious faith.
Is that what we are not debating here ?

all who claim to believe.

The faith of all of us that believe can not be shaken jon.

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #708

Is that what we are not debating here ?

We aren't 'debating' anything, and belief is a personal thing, expressed in how we engage with others both individually and in society as a whole.

The faith of all of us that believe can not be shaken

Yet the faith of so many who say they believe gets shaken all the time.

Rich Mazur
10 Oct 2018  #709

Then you don't qualify as an atheist Rich showing how confused you are on this issue.

No confusion at all, just bad and hasty writing.

I have no problem with accepting the basics: God, Heaven, Hell, angels and even the miracles.

That sentence should have been: I have no problem with the followers accepting the basics: God, Heaven, Hell, angels and even the miracles.

How about when the soldier took his sword and cut off the ear of a dude and then Jesus picked his ear up off the ground and reattached it.

People lie for a variety of reasons. I will accept a "miracle" like this the same way I will accept aliens from space: on camera, with expert witnesses, not a bunch of uneducated old women from Peru.

Allegedly, miracles happen even now as a necessary part of saint-making process and we have plenty of opportunities for God to make a lot of men who lost their legs or arms to IED's whole again by reattaching those missing limbs. Somehow, it's not happening. It's always the hi-tech, man-made kind.

johnny reb
10 Oct 2018  #710

Yet the faith of so many who say they believe gets shaken all the time.

No doubt jon, we are all sinners but we never get shaken to the point to cave to Satan's lies and abandon our Faith.

We are mortal men jon, not Jesus who walked this earth sin free.

Lyzko
10 Oct 2018  #711

No man is free of sin, so far as I know.

Sin is also relative. Our Western Bible is not the standard throughout the entire world, given that most of the planet is Buddhist or Taoist, that is, Chinese

who, if you notice, ain't Christians:-)

Only the Christians believe one can only be saved if they believe in Christianity. Ever seen any Buddhist Crusades?

Islamic Jihads or Hari Krishnas, even Jews proselytizing "Moshiach is coming" don't castigate non believers as going straight to Hell!
Muslim submission means submission to Allah, while a punishing after life for minor transgressions doesn't enter into the same equation.

Rich Mazur
10 Oct 2018  #712

Islamic Jihads or Hari Krishnas, even Jews proselytizing "Moshiach is coming" don't castigate non believers as going straight to Hell!

A headache inducing mosaic of madness. And all of them based on lies with only one redeeming feature: some feel good being told clever or scary stories. I liked Grimm tales when I was a kid, too.

If somebody can explain the material difference between a story about a wolf eating Grandma and water quickly turning into wine, I am listening.

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #713

but we never get shaken to the point to cave to Satan's lies and abandon our Faith.

Plenty do. You have to ask whether their faith was societal or genuine. In any case, even believers have their/our ups and downs. The bible discusses this, as do later writers..

not Jesus who walked this earth sin free.

He was mortal too, as well as divine. I'm not convinced about the "sin free" bit, to say the least. A lot of later interpretation there.

Rich Mazur
10 Oct 2018  #714

Yeah, Jesus, who never married, never got a bj or got lucky more normal way after a sermon. Sure.

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #715

We don't know whether he did or didn't get married. Worth mentioning that no text refers to any descendants, whereas there are Roman legal records that mention his nephews and other documents mentioning the Desposyni, Jesus' relatives.

never got a bj or got lucky more normal way

We don't know if he did or if he didn't. We know he had a social life. He was even criticised for wild living.

Rich Mazur
10 Oct 2018  #716

My money is that he was normal. What I don't understand is how that would take away from his great and positive impact on humanity. King was a womanizer and a commie but he did manage to say things that made sense and that is why every dinky hole in the US with at least one traffic light has a street with his name.

jon357
10 Oct 2018  #717

My money is that he was normal.

Certainly not that normal, given that he split human history in half; he collected disciples too, so we can assume he had a lot of charisma.

and a commie

Rather like Jesus.

Rich Mazur
10 Oct 2018  #718

I don't recall Jesus advocating property confiscation at the point of a gun, no-trial executions and gulags.

Dirk diggler
11 Oct 2018  #719

that is why every dinky hole in the US with at least one traffic light has a street with his name.

And generally the shittiest, poorest area of any city... If you want to find AIDS ridden hookers, filed down guns with tons of bodies on them, crack and dudes outlined with chalk on the sidewalk - just go to your local MLK drive...

Only thing those streets are good for are overcharging the city to fix the section 8 hovels and waiting a few months till the residents invariably destroy them again and yet the city keeps paying for these animals to live like normal people who don't put holes in every wall and don't destroy appliances because they don't want to pay their $25-$100 share of the $1k $1.5k plus total (remainder subsidized by taxpayers) rent... I see this sh1t all the time - they don't want to pay rent so they destroy their home or sell their appliances to one of the used appliance stores or pawn shop in the hood and claim instead they put it outside and the garbagemen already took it.. taxpayers replace it anyway within a few weeks... they'll cause thousands of dollars in damage just to avoid paying anywhere from $25-$100... and they do this sh1t all the time... and the liberals keep telling us that people in the hood 'need' our tax money and we have to pay ever higher property taxes for the tidy homes with trimmed lawns that we keep... they're running out of things to tax - even plastic bags and any drink with any sugar at all has a tax... bunch of bullsh1t

MLK would be proud...

Rich Mazur
11 Oct 2018  #720

...of all that and the fact that the clown is the only American who has his personal federal holiday. Yeah, of all the Americans who ever lived, he is the one and the best. F****** incredible.

I smuggled this here because, while not banging hookers, he was also a reverend. So it's about religion.


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Off-Topic / Religion discussion - muslims, jews, buddhist, and christianstop