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After Brexit, Northern Ireland may obtain a special status in the EU



bolek_tusk
5 Jan 2019  #451

You don't like Obama telling you who to vote for but you don't mind when Putin tells you ?

Remind me when Putin told me how to vote since I don't recall...

Actually I am a Polish citizen.

cms neuf
5 Jan 2019  #452

Putin funded the leave operation. As with Trump it will come out drop by drop

I didnt realize you were Polish so apologies for doubting that :) you were born in Poland or in the UK ?

Atch
5 Jan 2019  #453

tens of millions of British wanted more control.over their borders and immigration policy.

But Brexit is not the topic of the thread. The topic is whether Northern Ireland will have a different status to the rest of the UK, which it won't because the DUP (the chief Unionist party) won't hear of NI being treated differently to any other part of the UK.

There is minimal support for the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland nowadays. They never enjoyed much popular support after the initial days of the Troubles and you should be aware that they terrorized their own Catholic communities with bullying, intimidation, violent assaults etc.

mafketis
5 Jan 2019  #454

As with Trump it will come out drop by drop

The Russian "investigation" about Trump has been the American version of the Smolensk commission - lots of amazing new details are about to released (and then never are)

Dirk diggler
5 Jan 2019  #455

you should be aware that they terrorized their own Catholic communities with bullying, intimidation, violent assaults etc.

Well unfortunately there will always be people willing to collaborate and give people up for a few bucks or bc of personal disputes. It was the same in Nazi and Soviet occupied Poland and it's still like that in many areas where different factions fight for control. If a heroin dealer selling to kids gets kneecapped in derry after being told to stop I'm not going to cry over it. From my understand Ira/RAAD has been pretty reasonable with telling people to cut the **** before meting punishments.

There is minimal support for the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland nowadays.

What about offshoots and affiliates like RAAD? Also sinn fein appears to be pretty popular, do their voters not care much about their Ira links?

How do sinn fein and dup/loyalists differ/agree in their desired for Ni in terms of Brexit?

Atch
6 Jan 2019  #456

From my understand Ira/RAAD has been pretty reasonable

I'm talking about IRA intimidation of law abiding Catholics/Nationalists who were openly critical of the actions of the IRA. When the people began the Peace Movement and arranged Peace Marches, the IRA tried to stop the marches. They also tried to flex their muscles in the Republic, going into people's business premises for example and ordering them to close up on the days of IRA funerals, that kind of thing. Irish people do not like the tactics of the IRA.

As to the other stuff, it would take too long to write about it here. You can read about it in plenty of reputable sources. Just avoid rubbishy YouTube vids and weird websites.

Dougpol1
6 Jan 2019  #457

Actuallly I am a Polish citizen.

Because your parents were born here...? What have you contributed to Poland though Bolek? This Polish "citizen" crap only exists because historic Polish governments abdicated responsibility and depended on money extracted from Polonia (that is: they buy your allegiance; it's not real)

mafketis
12 Jan 2019  #458

Interesting.... I'm not a fan of the "based Poland" twitter feed but this is interesting, an Oxford professor with a fact I hadn't heard...

twitter.com/BasedPoland/status/1084017398028619777

basically he says the population of London is no greater now than 60 years ago, but more than half of the current population wasn't born in Britain.... "Something rather drastic has happened to the indigenous population in London, it's more than halved..."

Dirk diggler
12 Jan 2019  #459

Yet none of the Brits here care to acknowledge that their fellow Englishmen have become a minority in their own capital... And the rest of the country is next!

Brexit or not, won't make a difference in the slightest

Miloslaw
12 Jan 2019  #460

@Dirk diggler

I will!

The White British population of London is about 45%.
But remember that we have a very large non white British born population too.
The percentage of Londoners not born in Britain is about 37%.
White British have been moving out of London for decades.
I have a large extended family and most of them no longer live in London.

mafketis
12 Jan 2019  #461

White British have been moving out of London for decades.

Isn't that weird?

this is the new urban model (the linked article is about France but it also seems to be true of London)

"The Parisian economy needs executives and qualified professionals. It also needs workers, predominantly immigrants, for the construction industry and catering et cetera. Business relies on this very specific demographic mix. The problem is that 'the people' outside of this still exist"

Miloslaw
12 Jan 2019  #462

Spot on,that could be about London.....we charge a "Congestion Charge" too now for vehicles coming into London and property prices are sky high.

Dougpol1
13 Jan 2019  #463

The percentage of Londoners not born in Britain is about 37%.

And...........? Still a far more interesting place to live than Warsaw - which has no saving graces that I can discern.

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #464

we charge a "Congestion Charge" too now for vehicles coming into London

What about vehicles driving into crowds like this guys?

dailystormer.name/uk-moslem-gets-28-years-for-ackbaring-dancefloor-with-4x4-of-peace

Naturally, little to no mention from media about this...

Or the fact that there were numerous arson attacks, a drive by and a young boy kidnapped in Sweden on the same day. Things like that rarely ever happened in pre-deluge Europe. Now it's such a regular occurrence that the media doesn't even care to talk much about it, unless its a particularly large scale spontaneous cultural enrichment.

This English dude has the right idea - UK is ****** up thanks to all the feminists and immigrants youtube.com/watch?v=LM6wqZwg6hQ

Dougpol1
13 Jan 2019  #465

UK is ****** up thanks to all the feminists and immigrants

So do please tell us again why May is so obsessed with ending freedom of movement (wrongly, in my opinion). Could it be because a large proportion of young educated Poles realise that financially they would be far better off in the UK, and the UK right-wingers erroneously blame them for "undercutting" their job' prospects?

Would those Poles countenance that move if they seriously thought for a minute that Britain is a more dangerous place than Poland? How many people died as as a result of culpable manslaughter in Poland last year - as in, killed on the roads by others through criminal dangerous driving? Can't be bothered to check on my day off, but you can guess. In some way such deeds are as much of a crime as terrorist murder, because such dangerous and criminal manslaughter could be avoided - by taking the criminals off the roads for 10 years.

Dirk diggler
13 Jan 2019  #466

Would those Poles countenance that move if they seriously thought for a minute that Britain is a more dangerous place than Poland?

Poles go to the UK, USA, Germany, etc. because they want to make money, first and foremost. Safety is not their top concern since Polish immigrants tend to be hard working and motivated and thus generally live in decent neighborhoods with low crime rates. USA is far more dangerous as a whole than UK (mainly due to the disproportionate black violent crimes, but that's another topic) yet USA has a hell of a lot larger Polish population than the UK. Chicago has more murders than any other city in the US and yet it has more Poles than any other city in the world aside from Warsaw. Most Poles live in either good parts of the city or in the suburbs so they aren't affected by the riff raff.

How many people died as as a result of culpable manslaughter in Poland last year

A lot less than get raped, stabbed, run over, or blown up by migrants in Europe every year. 2,700 road fatalities in Poland in 2017. More than double that amount of women get sexually assaulted by migrants every year in Germany alone - 1k assaulted on just NYE in one city .

n some way such deeds are as much of a crime as terrorist murder, because such dangerous and criminal manslaughter could be avoided

So can Islamic terrorism - don't let them in, and certainly don't allow them to commit attacks or travel to places like Syria and let them come back after knowing that they're terrorists! Now the public are asking a lot of questions on the anniversary of the London bridge spontaneous cultural enrichment event how a person can plan and direct out an attack despite being known to police as a terrorist and being under surveillance. It's likely the same excuse as with the Rotterham scandal - the authorities are too scared to do anything for fear of being called the r-word as PC has completely taken over.

Poland's rate of road deaths is 10.3. That is below the world, Americas, African, Asian, middle eastern average and only slightly higher than the European average. In fact, the rate is slightly lower than the USA's and on par with Baltic states like Lithuania and Latvia.

Atch
13 Jan 2019  #467

I'm not a fan of the "based Poland" twitter feed but this is interesting,

Maf, what does it have to do with NI's status after Brexit?? This thread has turned into yet another immigration rant. Even if it were a proper debate, which it isn't, it's been done to death at this stage and in any case it doesn't have anything to do with the topic of the thread.

Poland's rate of road deaths ............... only slightly higher than the European average

Poland is one of the worst in the EU.

thenews.pl/1/11/Artykul/371285,Road-death-toll-in-Poland-among-highest-in-EU-EC-stats

mafketis
13 Jan 2019  #468

Maf, what does it have to do with NI's status after Brexit??

nothing.... this was just where I remembered there had been debate on the make up of London and I thought it was an interesting point from a reliable source (a knighted professor at Oxford)

if you can think of a better thread then suggest it and I'll support any suggestion to move it

personally I'm over Northern Ireland and they can do what they want...

delphiandomine
13 Jan 2019  #469

I'm talking about IRA intimidation of law abiding Catholics/Nationalists who were openly critical of the actions of the IRA.

Yes, especially in working class areas. I've read many accounts of what life was and is like in those areas, and intimidation was and is widespread.

theguardian.com/uk/2005/feb/28/northernireland.northernireland - well worth a read if you want to understand just how bad the IRA can be towards civilians. There's nothing romantic about them.

Life might get worse for Nationalists in border areas in the event of no deal, for the simple reason that smuggling will return on a large scale and that people will be once again openly threatened and reminded to keep quiet.

Atch
14 Jan 2019  #470

debate on the make up of London

The only way to understand the changing demographic of London is to read the history of the city and ideally the memoirs of those who lived there over the last century, which nobody here has the patience or interest to do.

f you can think of a better thread

Random chat,general off-topic.

Dirk diggler
14 Jan 2019  #471

Polish people like to drive fast and recklessly on the country roads. It's like a national past time. That's why rally racing is so popular. Even amongst Polonia every young male and even a lot of females who have a bit of cash has a sports car or if they can't afford they tune up their daily driver usually a ricer.

@delphiandomine
I doubt the days of sending crates of aks from the US or Libya will return tho... There's actually quite a bit of support for Ira in the USA especially amongst white collar Irish in Boston and Chicago but it's a fraction of what it was back in the day

Atch
14 Jan 2019  #472

Polish people like to drive fast and recklessly on the country roads.

And in the centre of towns. A disproportionate number of pedestrian fatalities for example occur on pedestrian crossings. The facts speak for themselves regarding Poland's terrible record in respect of road deaths. However that's for another thread.

white collar Irish in Boston and Chicago

They are not Irish. They are Irish American. Many of them have never even set foot in Ireland. And I doubt that any educated American person under the age of fifty, whatever their ancestry, supports the Provisional IRA.

Dirk diggler
14 Jan 2019  #473

Well every culture has its own vices and problems. Atleast Poles aren't ******* family members and children like the Pakistanis...

You'd be surprised by how many Irish in Chicago speak gaelic and have citizenry,in Boston even more. Actually young nationalists now make up about half the supporters.

mafketis
14 Jan 2019  #474

Many of them have never even set foot in Ireland

their attitude to Ireland is kind of like Dirk's to Poland.... all show and no real knowledge....

Atch
14 Jan 2019  #475

You'd be surprised by how many Irish in Chicago speak gaelic

The Irish language is referred to as Irish - not having a go, just to let you know we don't call it Gaelic. The Irish word for the language is Gaeilge. I'm sure plenty of Irish Americans have Irish passports but no normal Irish person North or South of the border supports the idea of a United Ireland through armed force.

mafketis
14 Jan 2019  #476

The Irish language is referred to as Irish - not having a go, just to let you know we don't call it Gaelic

Some Irish Americans do though oddly enough... the way Polish Americans say 'busha' which almost no one in Poland uses now.

More info on the gap between diaspora populations and the 'home' country.

Miloslaw
14 Jan 2019  #477

Irish Americans often call Irish Gaelic.
Irish is a Gaelic language,as is Scottish.
What about Welsh,Cornish and Breton?

Lyzko
15 Jan 2019  #478

Don't forget about the now no longer extant Manx spoken on the Isle of Man:-)

dolnoslask
15 Jan 2019  #479

Still alive and kicking

learnmanx.com/video_story_532661.html

TT Aboo!, Dolno's playground.

mafketis
16 Jan 2019  #480

Still alive and kicking

I always thought Manx (with its ridiculous english based orthography) looked slightly more... learnable than Irish (where the spelling is akin to a natural disaster...). OF the surviving Celtic languages Welsh seems to have the most linguistically sound orthography (might be part of why it's the one that is thriving the most?) Although I understand there are problems with differences in formal and everyday grammar that are pretty severe...


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