After Brexit, Northern Ireland may obtain a special status in the EU

Nor me...

I think she has mission impossible in a way. She called the election hoping that Labour were in disarray and that an increased majority would allow her plenty of breathing space during negotiations and to fend off the Brexiteers. Instead, she ended up dependent on the DUP and without any means of whipping the Tories into accepting the final deal.

If Labour weren't dominated by the Corbynistas at the minute, she might have been able to rely on Labour to agree to the deal as a "least-worst" option, but that's not going to happen now.

No,it's all lost now....The EU has won.....a sad day for Britain...

It was only to be predicted. The UK was trying to fight 27 other countries who had no interest in letting the UK go with a sweet deal, and almost every one of them has their own motives for making it as difficult as possible for the UK. Even if you look at Poland, they have no real interest in letting the UK go, and giving the UK the choice between a crap deal (for the UK) or no deal is a good situation for them.

LIke many politicians, I really don't think she is in touch with the people at all. When the election results were in, she looked genuinely shell-shocked at the result. Years of cuts to public services, schools, the NHS, Police etc etc, weren't going to endear her party to the British public, and of course, it all backfired in her face.


No way will that happen.
As you said earlier, I think it should be put to the vote again, now that all the cards are on the table. A bad decision now is going to wreck this country for years to come.

We have no option then....leave with no deal,which is what I said when I first started to post on this forum.
I said that The EU would never offer us an acceptable deal....i was right,but it was obvious....they couldn't.....so why did we waste two years trying....?

I think that's a fair assessment. Although she's not the most impressive leader, getting rid of her will solve nothing. The problem is not Theresa May. The problem is the Irish border and that problem will remain.

Of course none of that was discussed before the referendum was held because for both the British government and the people of England in particular, Ireland either North or South never enters their head. From the public's point of view, I understand completely why that's the case but you'd think the government and politicians might have thought of it. The fact is that the UK is like a car with England in the driving seat, Scotland in the passenger seat, Wales in the back seat, all of their luggage in the boot and Northern Ireland is excess baggage, strapped to the roof rack.

That is so wrong....the Irish border is only a problem because the Irish government want it to be.Since the agreement there has not been,isn`t and never will be a problem with The Irish border.

Checks already happen.
The RUC and Guarda work in close cooperation.
Even if The EU demand a harder border,it will never revert to the bad old days.
This subject is being blown out of all proportion by Republicans.

But that's precisely the problem. Republicans signed the Belfast Agreement too, and there are real fears that a hard border could lead to the return of Republican violence. It might seem silly to me or you, but many people in border areas will remember the humiliation they endured at the former security checkpoints in the North, and they're strongly against any return of a hard border there.

From what I understand, the Irish government's position is that it's either no deal or an open border - there's no question of a deal being made if it involves the return of physical checkpoints on the border. Seems fair enough, as it's a red line for them in negotiations, and it seems that the UK underestimated the will of Dublin to fight as hard as they could to keep the border wide open. The UK also seems to have been caught off guard by the will of other EU countries to defend the Irish position, and I suspect the Irish Government also feels like the UK didn't pay the topic enough respect.

It's impossible to see what the UK actually intends to do on the Irish border. If there's no deal, leaving the EU-UK border wide open in Ireland will just lead to huge amounts of smuggling. Closing border roads is a huge no-no, so the UK will have to find a way of monitoring them - but any monitoring equipment will be destroyed within minutes. Placing customs officers on every border crossing is never going to happen, so...what?

@Delph, I think you'd find this article interesting:

rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2018/1117/1011613-brexit-fix-stupid/

To understand Ireland/Brexit you have to read Irish journalism as it's the only place where the issue is examined in enough depth and from the Irish perspective which gives you the necessary insight. As you can see from this article, the age old problem is the DUP, the hardline Unionists. We in Ireland, both North and South know how stubborn they are. Once they take up a stance you won't move them.

And the situation in Northern Ireland is very bad at the moment - no government up there now for nearly two years with the threat of a retun to direct rule from London. The suggestion of reinstating a hard border of any kind at such a point in Northern Ireland's internal politics, even just for customs checks would be disastrous.

Thank you for the article, it was indeed interesting. You're completely right, people don't understand the complications behind the border. Any attempt at reintroducing Customs controls is going to lead to trouble - arguably, one thing that calmed South Armagh down was turning a blind eye to a lot of smuggling, as people didn't want to risk their livelihoods for the sake of killing a few soldiers.


I can kind-of understand where they're coming from, because their whole identity is hardcore Unionism to the point where they're content to have direct rule from London, and a Customs border down the Irish Sea could be a step towards introducing identity controls between Britain and Northern Ireland too, at least in their minds. But really, with the move towards Customs checks being carried out away from borders and on the premises instead, there's no reason why Northern Ireland can't be in a separate Customs territory to the rest of GB.

However, it goes back to the DUP - they don't want further devolution.


I suspect the DUP don't really care that much about border checks because it barely affects them and their electorate. But really, I haven't seen one viable answer from the Tories as to how a hard border can be avoided while staying out of the Customs Union. Technology might work in the South->North direction, but vice versa? Why would the EU let goods cross the border freely when the UK has clearly signalled that the plan is to create free trade agreements with countries like India?

I've seen this quote -


And this is complete madness.The UK has no real strategy or plan for the Irish border, and even Varadkar has made it clear that he wants to see a clear plan for how the Customs border can be managed without relying on fantasy and untested solutions.

The DUP said today that they will not vote in favour of the draft deal as they believe that in the long run it will result in the removal of Northern Ireland from the UK. And now Spain has said they won't give their approval unless the text on Gibraltar is changed.

The DUP probably are right, because unlike the days of the NI Parliament when Stormont could pretty much do what it wanted, Northern Ireland is now inching towards a nationalist majority. If Northern Ireland was to flourish as part of the Customs Union while the rest of the UK suffered, it could easily end up in a referendum being won by the unity side within 10 years. I still can't believe what a mistake it was to enter into that confidence/supply deal with the DUP - they could have easily done a quiet deal with the SNP in terms of handing over more powers to the Scottish Parliament in exchange for the SNP abstaining on English-only votes.

As for Spain, they're trying it on like always. They must be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of hammering Gibraltar with full-on border controls the day after Brexit!

As they should! Gibraltar is a non-viable entity minus massive injections of money by the UK (or tourists to Spain).

Most of them voted for Remain...that's just not fair....

It's looking more and more likely that May will win the vote. The Tories will tweak the wording, and MPs will cave in, for their political futures. Better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Sadly. For the next ten years some areas of Britain will be very unpleasant to live in, while the jingoistic plebs have their union Jack waving field day.

And all because of Tory infighting with "Sir" William Cash and the rest. Cameron et al can all **** off - literally. A lot of us can't. Freedom of movement ruined for a whole generation, and all for a political point, as in "this is democracy, and the people have voted to leave the European Union on the 29th of March.."

Could May actually be hated more than Thatcher? it's a close call?
And you said you felt sorry for her (May). I presume you are au fait with her social policies?

Maf, I could be wrong, but I think Gibraltar these days is actually economically self-sufficient apart from defence, and even then, I think most of the permanent defence is paid for by the Government of Gibraltar, not the UK. It's a pretty wealthy place these days (though I remember when it was a run-down wreck of a place in the 1990's) too.

If Spain was willing to accept it, the most reasonable thing for Gibraltar would actually to be an independent state similar to Monaco. Even today, they have border controls when you fly from the UK, so they could easily be in Schengen and in the Customs Union just like Monaco is.

I feel sorry for her in the respect that she is in an impossible no-win situation.Cameron, Farage and Boris were like rats deserting a sinking ship in the aftermath of the Brexit vote. She has been left to sort out the no-plan plan if you get my drift. Even if she were voted out as PM tomorrow, I don't think anyone else would do better either. I can't see any movement forward regarding the Irish border, nothing seems workable.

Yes I am aware of her social policies, and no, I do not agree with them. I have never voted Conservative and it's doubtful that I ever will either. I want to vote for a party that is for the people, not the top 5% of society. As it stands now, this country is very reminiscent of Thatcher's Britain :-(

I personally cannot wait for Jeremy Corbyn to grasp power out of the ashes of Brexit, without european courts and their laws to prevent him nationalising Britain's industries and financial services. The workers will sit on the board and take the key decisions, the building of the new British socialist order will be a gem to observe from afar.

I hope to hell you are being sarcastic here.....

The future would be bright with a post Brexit Corbyn government in place, pretty candles instead of light bulbs , only working 3 days a week Chinese food parcels , pop stars fleeing to Germany, Oh the seventies I remember them well .

You will have to send me daily reports, that's if you would still be allowed to use the internet.

Northern Ireland will be glad to have special EU status.

My prediction: the UK will implement some ridiculous system on the border that won't work and will lead to huge amounts of smuggling in the South->North direction, while Ireland/EU will just put normal Customs controls on the border like on the Norway/Sweden or Swiss borders.

Phew,you had me going for a minute there! :-)

@ Delph It's not just a question of smuggling. Take a look at the opinions of these ordinary people about what it will mean to them and the direct impact on their everyday lives:

rte.ie/news/newslens/2018/1109/1009728-brexit-the-view-from-the-border/

While some issues such as access to cancer services could possibly be dealt with more easily, matters such as fisheries and livestock are a logistical nightmare.


But a sizeable number of local people have strong objections to any controls and a significant minority have very strong objections, particularly among Sinn Féin supporters, and we all know where that can lead. Below is a link to research carried out earlier this year by Queen's University in Belfast which gives a clear picture of local peoples' views and concerns. It's a long report but it's worth reading.

qub.ac.uk/sites/brexitni/BrexitandtheBorder/Report/Filetoupload,820734,en.pdf]https://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/brexitni/BrexitandtheBorder/Report/Filetoupload,820734,en.pdf[/url]

The situation could be solved, but the thing about Northern Ireland that we in Ireland, North or South know and which the British government clearly forgot before calling the Brexit referendum, is that it takes FOREVER to get any progress on issues in the North. Look how long the Troubles went on. Given the time frame that Northern Ireland people usually work to, it would take about five years of negotiations to solve this. But obviously something will have to be done a lot quicker than that.

hahha looking like thatchers britain? if only that were true. at least under thatcher there werent any sharia courts, migrant rape squads, thought crime police and the british were still the majority in their own capital. no matter what brexit deal passes, it wont fix any of those things.

It is, and if you go back to pre-1993, there was so much smuggling going on that neither the British nor Irish governments could get a grip of it. My favourite story involving smuggling was what the old IRA Chief of Staff, Slab Murphy was doing. His house is on the border here - google.com/maps/@54.055325,-6.5380927,3a,37.5y,273.55h,90.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIpAHX82v1yG57RwemCbvCw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

- and in those barns, he installed a system that would pump fuel from one side of the border to another. Tankers would roll up from one side of the border, deposit their load into tanks, which would then be pumped across the border and then picked up by other tankers.

There's a good article here about it -
thejournal.ie/slab-murphy-tax-offences-evasion-2626039-Feb2016
- but it shows just how difficult it was for anyone to get hold of him during earlier times.


(only quoting this, but you get the point) - Thanks for the link, I'll read through this tonight. I've taken a quick look already and one figure stands out - almost 30% of Protestants are opposed to Customs/PSNI checks. Yet at the same time, less than 60% of Catholics are opposed to Customs/PSNI on the border, and even stranger still, more are opposed to the presence of the Gardai than the PSNI.

I just can't see any realistic way to bring controls back, as you said. Cameras wouldn't last five minutes in South Armagh and near Derry, and what else could they do? But I do think that there wouldn't be any violence towards Customs officers working for the South, but there's no way they could return controls to places like Killeen. I mean - perhaps we're also rather guilty of overplaying the issue, because there's plenty of examples from the Swiss border where the EU doesn't bother to guard it. On the contrary, I can't imagine many people accepting that can be pulled over in Drogheda or Omagh for a Customs check.

Still, given the latest news, I do wonder if May will somehow win that vote in parliament...

I think she might now too...how things change in a week....

For anyone with two cents worth of brain power and good will, Brexit shouldn't pose any major problems. but given that the EU bureaucracy (and northern Ireland) are full of ill-willed nincompoops with permanent grudges.... there's gonna be problems.

Look for the most awkard 'agreement' that satisfies no one to end up being in place... (and more problems down the road for the bad handling of this)

Spot on Maf!

Pot meet kettle! ;)