Let's discuss muslims, jews, buddhist, and christians

This is the thread to ask your question Lyzko.

To which I've yet to receive an answer, merely purile prevarication from Mr. Ironside.

Mr Lyzko instead of pontificating, moralizing and pretending that is a serious question you should grow up.

What is that you don't understand Mr Lzyko? As soon as Israel give us example and will apologize to Poland for all Jews that committed crimes on 'ethnic Poles' I'm sure that Poland would reprocitae. That makes as much sense as your 'question'! That fact seems to escape you/.Must be cause you're prone to self-delusions.

As if the Jews in Poland committed any acts of self-preservation UNPROVOKED???!

If someone throws rocks at your house on your sabbath, you ain't gonna be a happy camper either....RIGHT??!

Sure, you chase him down the street and knife him to dead.

Do you even listen to yourself Lzyko?
You need to understand that sanctimonious victimhood coupled with a neo-Marxist collective guilt trips doesn't work in the real life. At last there is no need for all that nonsense.

I got a feeling you don't understand what I'm talking about - do you?
I was hoping that an example I have given above would illuminate errors of your take on the issue. I hoped that at the very least it will illustrate a general rule that you seemingly try to ignore as all the regressive leftist do.

Yet once again my effort has fallen on deaf ears..

....and if YOUR brain listened to what your tongue were speaking, you'd short circuit yourselfLOL

Deaf ears?? There are none so deaf as those who will not hear and none so blind as those who will not see:-)
So you're deaf, dumb, and blind, Ironside, all at the same time!

I would of course defend your right to express that and any opinion. However as a matter of fact what you said is nought but YOUR opinion which you obviously cannot/are unable support with any substantial argument.

It doesn't conclude, further or solve our disagreement. Its serve no purpose at all, you basically revert to the level of a kindergarten kid - who say - you're stupid ha! - with an air of finality and accomplishment as If him saying that would actually mean something beside the fact that he is just a kid who doesn't know any better.

You don't have that excuse Lyzko. You're allegedly an adult and a college teacher, you SHOULD know better. The fact that you don't is downright pathetic .

I'm aware of historical double standards, Ironside. The Jews became the "Frankenstein's Monster" creation by dint of the Catholic Church which marginalized them to the extent that they had to do whatever they could in order to eek out an existence. If usury etc. was what it took to put food on their family's table, regrettably, that's what was needed and the Jews knew it. I'm sure, they did it thanklessly as well:-)

Had you been Jewish too, doubtless as a human being, you'd have done the same thing, so quit playing holier than thou!

Lzyko what are you even talking about?
Let me remind you that we were talking (at least I was) about absurdity of your expectation that somehow Poland own Jews some kind of an apology or whatnot.

Frankly, any apology should come primarily from the Polish government, as acts against gentile Polish patriots were doubtless not committed out of unbridled malice, but rather as acts of retaliation for anti-Semitic provocation! The Jews were forced to the wall.

If someone attacks you, wouldn't you try to defend yourself??!

There is nothing to apologize for.
That presumption you try to push forward is simply a ridiculous nonsense. As I have illustrated by saying that in that case Israel should apologize to Poles. I see you still don't get it.

One aspect:

If an American Jew would have been murdered by a WASP, would you expect an apology to be forwarded by the POTUS to all Jews worldwide or to Israel? What if a murderer would have been committed by an African American or what have you?

Why a criminal act committed by one citizen against another citizen should be hold to a different standard if a one them belonged to a certain ethnicity and other to another? Is not only a very racist attitude but is has no place in the modern civilized world. Its backwoods.

Do you get it now?
It is one thing if some atrocities are committed by a state and its functionaries. We could agree that some kind of acknowledgment that a certain policy of a state has been wrong wouldn't hurt.

However talking about responsibility of a state for acts of criminal individuals and especially an idea to divide and judge those individuals according not only to their deeds but also to their ethnicity is just a dumb idea.


No, they committed that all those atrocities as an act of subbing Poland by the Soviets oppressor. Amongst those who volunteered to be a genocidal murdering criminals and traitors there were aplenty of people of Jewish extraction. I was talking about them.

I'm not talking about some acts of savage ravage as when some Jews killed not only aa person responsible for some misdeeds towards their family but also slaughtered his all family including an infant in the cradle. Nor I'm talking about atrocities committed by some armed group of Jews on a local population just because they could and had an upper hand.

If you think that Jews were all innocent angels that reacted only to provocation you're deluding yourself. Those were not a middle class college professor, shop owners or lawyers but people from all walks of life, including criminals, the poor, illiterate and people of all social strata...not to forget dedicated communists.

Not all Jews are "innocent angels", nor are all Poles. There were good Poles during WWII and there were unrepenetent collaborators, plain and simple!

The Jews didn't have a choice to wind up in gentile Europe following the destruction of the Second Temple, they were forced by circumstances, for which the Catholic Church made few if any allowances. Where were they supposed to have gone, for pity's sake??

Can't keep teaching you history every time I post, Ironside:-)

No, you don't. You post some unrelated stuff.
Unless you're inferring that because historically Jews had a rough ride now everyone should bow and scrape before their progeny. Which would be another HS.

I said that Poland as in Polish government has nothing to apologize for.
You say that "not all Jews are 'innocent angels' and neither are Poles" Have I ever said anything to the contrary? I totally agree with you on that./

On the last part anyway, we're finally in agreement! WHEW!!
:-)

As long as we agree on the premise that not all Jews are 'innocent angels and not all Poles are 'innocent angles'. :)

Scarcely. That would be the most egregious of hypocrisies!

Aha! So you demonizing one people and glorying other people. How would you call that? Racism, Denial, Obstinacy? or just a pure old ignorant prejudice?

Talk about faking history.

This "Second Temple" was abandoned in 70 AD. There is no proof whatsoever of an exodus to Europe around this time of the entire population of what you are calling Jews. The Catholic Church itself was still nascent and not widespread in Europe. Heck, Christianity didn't reach Poland until 966 AD and history teaches that Jews didn't arrive in Poland until the 10th century at the earliest.

who talk about history? Not Lzyko, when he says history he means religion. You don't debate dogmas.

True. And dogmatists for what is nothing more than Bronze Age fiction deceive themselves further by thinking that their fanaticism will not only cow others but command respect too.

Let's talk facts rather than fantasies!

The Jewish mass exodus for the Continent followed the destruction of the Temple, after which time, they were treated as political soccer balls, merrily tossed from country to country depending upon solely how the local aristocracy felt they could make full use of the Jews' skills:-)

The Catholic Church proceeded to demonize ALL Jews as Christ killers, erroneously fixing the blame on the Jews instead of the Romans.
Care to tell us who Pontius Pilate was??

Let's!


You provided no details whatsoever because it never happened. But here is another chance for you. Tell us where in Europe this Jewish mass exodus first went to in 70 AD. Did they travel over land through what is today Lebanon, Syria and Turkey to get to Europe or by boat from the shores of Palestine across the Mediterranean? How many Jews were in this alleged mass exodus to Europe and how was it ever possible then for Judaic cults to develop in the Middle East and Africa if they all went en mass to Europe because according to you they had no other choice? Be sure to include a timeline with verifiable sources for your answer. Also tells us of any involvement of flying, lightening-shooting golden arks, talking burning bushes, or the need to part entire bodies of water with the mere waving of a walking stick to ensure safe passage of this downtrodden group of overachieving, morally superior victims.


Who was the Catholic Pope in 70 AD who ordered the demonizing of all Jews and why? Since Christianity is just another branch of the Abrahamic tree then why weren't the Jews successful in persuading this 1st century Pope (or his successors) to accept their Sanhedrin's verdict that Rabbi Jesus was guilty of not following the script of their particular cult? After all, if you believe the written accounts, they were successful in convincing the Romans stationed in Palestine only 70 years before to get involved in what was ultimately a dispute over esoteric matters of a creed which they (like the Pope) didn't follow themselves.


A 1st century Roman prefect who tried to be an honest broker in a local dispute amongst fanatical followers of Bronze Age fiction.

Now, care to tell us the demographic of the wild-eyed crowd who screamed "Barabbas! Barabbas!" when given a choice by Pilate to release him or the mild mannered pacifist Rabbi Jesus who at that point, if you believe the written accounts, had already been brutally beaten and flogged (or in other words tortured) but that still wasn't enough?

Wrongo, Biegański! Pilate was Rome's Governor General who ordered Jesus crucified!

Merged:

Jewish-rooted film directress bashes PiS, accuses Poles of Holocaust complicity

Film directress Agnieszka Holland. long known for badmouthing her Polish homeland, has again discredited Poles in the foreign media. This time she gave an emotional interview to the influential German daily "Die Welt". Holland, whose father belonged to the Jewish-led KPP and eagerly served the invading Soviet forces, informed her German interlocutors that: "Forty percent of Poles have been poisoned by Law and Justice" Regarding the Holocaust, she accused Poles of participating in the killing of Jews.

fakt.pl/wydarzenia/polityka/znana-rezyserka-agnieszka-holland-ostro-o-pis-zatruli-polakow/lwbc6ss

Daughter of a Bolshevik,,, says it all.

She's right, of course! Many of her fellow countrymen sadly were indeed complicit in consorting with the enemy! One can swear up and down, seven ways 'till Sunday that it's not so, but history, and factual history (not alternative factual) proves her correct:-)

Some say there should be no colelctive guilt and that is basically true. But it is also true that one's parental/family environment greatly influences children and shapes their future views and choices. A home regularly visited by friends of the family with KPP, Stalinist or PZPR leanings has largeły made such people (Holland, Michnik, Blumstein, Olejnik, Lityński, Kraśko, Owsiak, Łuczywo, etc. etc.) "soft on communism" and willing to call people like Jaruzelski and Kiszczak "men of honour". Poland's mean-sprited opposition is riddled with both actual communist henchmen such as the UB guys marching with KOD as well as "ministerial children" and members of other PRL-rooted dynasties.

@Polonius3
Her mother, a Catholic, received the righteous among the nations award
Her father, a Jew, was probably murdered by the PRL police
She fled Poland for France just before martial law in 1981

But why has she failed to mention that "many of her Jewish fellow countrymen sadly were indeed complicit in serving the enemy"? They did so as members of a Judenrat, as Jewish Gestapo informers, Jewish ghetto police, Jewish camp kapos, crematorium attendants, etc., etc. In times of war when survival is the ultimate goal of most, all people -- not just Poles or Jews -- will do many bad things ot save their skin and their families if only to buy a day or a few more hours before going to the gas chamber.

You said it yourselves - one again. Taking money from Germany for years does it to you.


Really? According to your logic Jews were also complicit in consorting with the enemy.

Hey kindergarten kids and progressives - individuals were consorting with the enemy, participating in killing Jews or whatnot.
It is sad that German state is trying to water down historical responsibility of the German state for Holocaust and all that.