Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 3

'Redemption' for, like the Coalition partner Poland, doing the right thing and removing a murderous dictator who had invaded a neighbouring country, had held British citizens including children hostage, and operated a huge network of political prisons.


Did they? As I remember we were one of the most hawkish countries regarding sanctions. While certain others (I'm thinking France and Germany) increased arms sales to r*SSia.

Then again, in those two dodgy polities, their public sector is riddled with r*SSian assets


Let's hope so. And painfully.

Nothing to do with the "right thing". Poland is America's bit*ch and does as it's told.

Germany is trying to undercut Poland. They are serius about it. Using EU institusions to do it. While Poland spend fortune helping Ukrianie. What a good friend Germany are. lol

But it feels good, I was told.

At least they aren't buying up factories in order to close them and move production to germany as they usually do.

And not only are they still, even more, buying gas off r*SSia, they're (almost unbelievably) paying for it in roubles.

Poland was of course also complicit in waging an illegal war of agression, destablizing a country and paving the way for a bloody Civil War and the rise of the IS and other negative consequences.


Sure. Ukraine was im 2014/15 completely ignored by London due to the Brexit folly. Beitish commentators complained about the lack of British


Berlin was the main reason why European sanctions were implemented over the objections of other European countries. And you can hardly call the UK "hawkish" when London simultaneously massively benefited from laundering Russian money.


Arms and equipment from the UK found its' way to Russia as well.

@Cojestdocholery
Germany afraid of losing control of the EU. Poland becoming too influential.

Neither illegal nor agression. And entirely appropriate given the direction that murderous dictator was heading in.

The civil war was an inevitable result of the repression by Saddamists of the Iran supporting Shia south. Better that than appeasing Saddam's murderous repression. Dictators should be crushed, not appease.


Don't be silly.


Found their way. Often via third parties. Whereas germany were not only directly exporting weapons to kill Ukrainian civilians after the current invasion started but were even blocking other countries from sending aid to Ukraine.

Hence the destruction of Germany's reputation on the world stage.

And they're still buying gas from r*SSia!

What sovereign rights has Kosovo in sovereign Serbia?

You think NATO can attack sovereign country and create some other state by taking part of territory? Man, it won`t work. It only destroyed any hint of International order. Without order we have chaos now.

Kosovo is not part of serbia, just as Ukraine is not part of r*SSia.

It was of course both.
Iraq did not attack the coalition, nor did it plan on doing so, nor was there an ongoing massacre to be stopped. There was also no UN mandate. There was no legal justification for the war, thus making it illegal by international law. Blair and Bush Jr. should have been sent to Hague for their role. Blair got sadly away on a technicality.


It has the right to determine what kind of documents it accepts within its' territories.


It was a view widely held back then.

google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2015/feb/10/uk-government-defends-role-in-ukraine-russia-crisis

Unlike Germany, the UK had directly vouched for Ukraines' territorial integrity, yet only started caring for it when Johnson needed a distraction from his many scandals.


Oh please. People who are already hostile about Germany take this as an opportunity to slander it despite the significant support Germany is granting Ukraine, but it is not going to stick. No doubt once the 1m Ukrainian refugees return from Germany (or however many will want to), even the image of Germany amongst Ukrainians will once again become positive.

The last time Germans tried to heat up a house with pride and noble principles it did not work. Smart Germans.

Feels or not, Ukrainie victory is in Polish interest. The question is how much of the help is too much. Not to help or not to help. Get it right!

WTF are you talking about? Have you ever opened a history book? Who cares what a bunch of rednecks in the middle of buttf*ck nowhere thought. Let's look at the facts.

At most, the outcast status lasted less than a few years. Then our Western "partners" quickly consolidated their three occupation zones into the FRG (thanks to Adenauer's wily maneuvering). Soon after, this sneaky fox Adenauer successfully argued for the end of denazification - claiming "the continuation of denazification would foster a growing and extreme nationalism as the millions who supported the Nazi regime would find themselves excluded from German life forever." Further, Adenauer and De Gaulle then created the European Steel and Coal community, which laid the modern foundations of the EU, ending the International Authority for the Ruhr.

By 1950, Germany was allowed to start rearming rapidly, and by 1955 it joined NATO as a full member.

Today, Germany has achieved what Nazi Germany had failed at, and runs the entirety of Europe (especially after the British self-liquidated themselves through Brexit).

So much for outcasts.

Will be interesting how long Russian society will prosecute its' criminals later on. Many suspected perpretators of Bucha and other atrocities are quite young, so maybe we will still see trials in 75 years like in Germany.


1. Rearmament happened a few years later. 2 We have the Soviets to thank for this. Without the threat of an invasion of Western Europe by a totalitarian Super Power that process would undoubtedly have taken longer.

@Bobko
WTF are you talking about? Did you live in the US? I am talking about people not governments you dumb F. Go eat some rock soup, or did you run out of water?

We're fighting a European country of 40+ million people, with one of the largest weapon arsenals in the world (left to it by the Soviet Union). On top of this, they have been pumped full of billions of dollars of state of the art weapons, some of which we don't even possess ourselves.

Let's see who you have attacked since 1980: (1) Grenada (2) Panama (3) Iraq (4) Somalia (5) Bosnia (6) Afghanistan (7) Again Iraq (8) Libya.

See a pattern there? Still wanna debate who is a pussy?


If Russia will be the most powerful country in Europe in terms of economy (like Germany), I don't give a f$ck what people think. Most serious people also. People decide nothing.

You can consider yourself lucky if Russia still has the economic size of Spain when this is over.

Russia has since 1980 invaded or tried to invade:

1. Afghanistan 2. Lithuania. 3. Moldavia. 4. Georgia. 5. Ukraine (twice).

And that leaves out the atrocities commited in Syria and elsewhere.

Bottom line, Russia has thrown away its' future economic prosperity and reputation in order to get their asses kicked by a country much smaller in size, economy and military strength.

"Widely held" views are not always correct. And no, as you were told, it was neither illegal nor aggression. You are however attempting whataboutery in order to deflect from an actual current scandal.


Not slander since it's the truth.

germany was supplying arms to r*SSia after it had invaded Ukraine in February, blocked other countries' said to Ukraine and are currently paying for r*SSian had in roubles.


Who have done you no harm and don't want you there.

"Fighting" is only part of the story, isn't it, orc. Your r*SSia is committing war crimes there including the mass murderer of civilians as verified by independent sources.

We don't try to invade anyone. If we invade, we invade.

We did not attack Lithuania.

Transdnistrians do not want to live with Moldovans, who are Romanians in disguise. We did not invade in any case.

Abkhazians and Ossetians do not want to live with Georgians, especially after Georgia attempted to perform an ethnic cleansing on them in the early 1990s. Again, we did not invade Georgia proper, otherwise there would be no Georgia.

In Afghanistan we tried to build a modern society and almost succeeded, until America decided it was a good idea to give Bin Laden and Co. stinger missiles and CIA training. In their invasion of Afghanistan the Americans used the very same bases we built in the 1980s. It's great to lament that girls can't go to school after the NATO pullout in 2021, but we have been lamenting this since 1989. When we ran the place, girls went to school, universities and hospitals functioned, stadiums were built, and Islamic terrorism was not exported globally.

Ukraine - no apologies.

Then please tell me the legal justification for the war that still holds up? Please note that invading a country because it is ruled by a dictator is not a valid legal justification. I pointed out the only conditions on which the war would not have violated internation law and none of them applied to Iraq.


Which weapons are you talking about? Are we talking about dual-use systems? If so, the same accusation can be laid at London's feats.


As are most other European countries. But unlike some e.g. Hungary, Germany has agreed to phase out those transfers at great economic cost.

Meanwhile Germany is the 3rd biggest supplier of aid to Ukraine and hosts the 2nd largest group of Ukrainian refugees. If the current flow of refugees keeps on, it might eventually surpass Poland in that regard.


So basically if Ukraine survives the war in some shape or form, it means you did not invade it?


Ridiculous. The Soviets completely destroyed the country, including irrigation systems, dams and other parts of the infrastructure. At no point did they ever make an attempt at nation building (with what ressource)?

That`s the infamous Russian unpredictability which has always fascinated some people in the West. In Russian literature, there are multiple cases of sane people who suddenly go crazy and do sth shocking. Commit a suicide, kill another person, leave home and never come back. Why do they do it? Nobody knows.

It's not unpredictable if you understand the meaning of the Russian Soul.

Dostoyevsky wrote: "I think that the most important, most rudimentary spiritual need of the Russian people is the need for suffering, constant and unquenchable, everywhere and in everything. It seems they have been infected with this thirst for suffering from time immemorial."

We also have a saying, "suffering purifies the soul". The worse the times, the closer we feel to God.


Ossetia had been free of Georgia for nearly twenty years at that point.


Educate yourself, or ask an Afghan above the age of 50 when was the best time to live in Afghanistan in the last 40 years.

While you quibble, Russians evacuate aircraft from Crimea.

Is this how victory smells like?

No. Weapons. And on a very large scale

Why did germany block other countries from helping Ukraine?

And if course germany blocked r*SSia's exclusion from the SWIFT system.


In roubles?

No. Most aren't.

Them again, most countries' public sectors and governments aren't riddled with r*SSian intelligence assets.

OK, let's try because Germany has brains and wants to do what is good for Germany rather than to please the occupiers of High Moral Ground aka Poles.

@Bobko
From personal experience, all Russians are pussies when confronted. Every one of them. In case you forgot Ukraine gave back the vast majority of is POS soviet weapons and got rid of all its nukes in exchange for Russias commitment to them. But of course all POS forget their promises.

Every leader of a country we wanted dead is dead except in Syria, but his time will come, and so will Putin's. Thats winning. What Russia does is lose. Russia is losing in Ukraine. No advances and resorting to nuclear terrorism with reactors now because your getting your a$$es kicked. Your army is a POS and that it. Russia has been exposed for being the rotting heap that its hamburger soldiers in Ukraine are proving to be.

"We don't try to invade anyone. If we invade, we invade."

Thats right. And you die. Congratulations. Success! "We dont try to die. We die like Fing flies." New motto for the Wagner group and all conscripts who's mommies are getting new Lada's as we speak.

@PolAmKrakow

I have this inescapable feeling that you are full of sh*t. Before it was you insisting to us that you've been all over Ukraine, including Crimea and Donetsk (your own gov imposed sanctions forbidding you from traveling there). Then it was your stories of lying in wait on your armored couch for when the Russians come, so you can pick them off with your sniper rifle (in KRAKOW, CARL!). Now it's your fairy tales about confronting Russians and them backing down on each occasion (regardless of how laughable this is, I'm more interested in the context of what exactly you are doing during these mentality surveys of yours). Given that you are a rather emotionally unstable person, and if there is even a grain of truth to your fables - I would suspect those Russians were not scared of you, but rather trying to avoid any further contact with you.


You forgot Kim Il Sung, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro, Daniel Ortega, etc, etc but it's ok, I know you don't read very much.

However I agree with you that Zelensky must be liquidated for the sake of peace, and am mystified at why my president does not give this order.

Good question! I wonder why Stalin did nothing about Hitler, the war would had been over much earlier....probably....or not.....

@Bratwurst Boy

Stalin enjoyed collecting people. There are many reports of him being upset when he learned of Hitler's suicide. He would have preferred to keep him in a cage as pet monkey, before an eventual tribunal where the POS would be made to answer for his crimes.