Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 9

You have not told us how "the West" broke these agreements

As for the stuff about Johnson, why would Ukraine listen to a medium sized country like Britain and suddenly change course? It makes no sense. Why would Biden or the EU, send Johnson, who they dislike and don't trust, to convey such important information?

I can well believe that over a scotch, Boris and Zelensky discussed all the options and noted that Udmurtia's only way to win the war was quickly and by surprise. But that was no longer possible after their boozed up, badly equipped, poorly planned attempt to take Hostomel. But the Ukrainians are grown ups - well able to take their own decisions

Both of us have lived in Africa, you say irredentism is a a curse, looking at my former home town in Jos. I think it will be a good thing. no more muslim christian warefare, people chop with machetes. the father of my best friend on his roof with a rifle. thank you poms! irredentism sounds awesome for africans!

Yes, very much.

We see that n Ukraine now where r^SSia uses spurious claims of historicity to fvck with people's lives.

So u think the english/french/belgian borders are permanent and ireveiioble? F&CK that.

Lines drawn on the the map by upper class beurocrats that did know their arse from their face.

@cms neuf
When you have no intention of honoring an agreement, it is already broken. Simple. An agreement negotiated in bad faith is a complete violation. If someone does that in business, they usually get destroyed in court. Specifically, Ukraine did not hold the local elections agreed to. Ukraine and the west did not allow integration socially and economically with the rest of Ukraine for the Donbas region. Ukraine essentially starved the Donbas out of money, technology, western goods and food. After they agreed not once but twice to allow these people to be somewhat independent and self governing.

Ukraine did not beat back Russia from Kiev. Russia withdrew from Kiev as a condition for the peace talks in Turkey. Then Johnson stepped in. Johnson was the western envoy delivering the UK, US and EU support for Ukraine. Lets not play stupid games. These are facts.

And what about Ukraine celebrating those Bandera and other neo nazi POS? Why are their holidays? Why are these celebrated as heros of Ukraine? Putin may be reaching calling all of Ukraine neo nazi, but there is certainly some element of it. Why isnt Poland and the west demanding Ukraine tear down statues of these POS? Why isnt everyone demanding no more celebrating of these people as heros of Ukraine?

Poland has been. We forgive Bandera as in it's our national interest because he was in jail. But Roman Shuchevych? wow that's beyond the pale. You said you had mates buying land in lviv, tell them to chop/blow those down.

@jon357


That is really a disgusting and completely inaproppiate comparison.

There was of course much relief about the result of the election because a) PiS was acting in such an irrational, germanophobic way that cooperation was almost impossible and b) it was also important to prevent a further backsliding of democracy. But that was hardly reserved to Germany, you'll find many similar voices in the British and American press.

The only shrill voice in all of this is the increasingly unhinged Kaszinsky. Of course people are hugely relieved that this man is no longer in charge of a crucial European country.

Those comparisons are stupid, most of all of you compare the EU - the pinnacle of Western civilization - with the most depraved one. We get it. The British left the EU, deep down you realize it was a huge mistake and now you try to convince yourself that it was nevertheless justified by demonizing the EU. But could we not stop this whole "Fourth Reich" nonsense?

I am asking again and again how this is the West's fault - and getting no answers. No concrete examples of the West breaking any agreements

Since 2014 the breakaway provinces were run by local gangsters who have now become an embarrassment even to Udmurtia - why would "the West" or Ukraine funnel money into their pockets, just so they could buy bigger Maybachs ?

Tucker should have pressed Putler on this, but I suppose money talks and he decided not to ask for any explanations.

It's true though...


If anything, those of us who voted remain have seen that the economy has grown, the political landscape hasn't changed and that London is not only still the primary financial market in that region of the world but is (after the initial shock) beginning to grow further in new and profitable ways. Plus of course we're no longer shackled to EU green targets and are maxing out our oilfields.

And we do hold all the patents related to the new generation of nuclear power plants. That and creating new ethylene refineries, larger than any other in Europe.

And of course (the French hate this) not renewing any of the contracts to operate public transport etc which during EU days had been bought by companies abroad; this is in effect nationalisation which would have been much harder in the days of the EU.


Perhaps a better comparison is with the last days of the Austri-Hungarian Empire. Where the sum of the parts is better than the whole and where the parts are realising that there's no reason for capital to flow to the 'centre' with the rest getting the leavings.

Don't remind facticus of that, he might have an aneurysm ;)

As I understand it the Brexit was much more about taking back the control of their borders, already back then trying to curb the numbers of immigrants...

But the actual vids coming out of London show it was never an EU thing....and the Brexit didn't change one bit on "Londonistan"!

Quite the contrary, soon it could be possible that rightist govs will make up the EU councils, working together to limit immigration, to take up extra measures to curb the illegal movements...

Not especially however some who voted that way were certainly right-wingers who go on about that.


I'd be wary of dodgy videos filmed by people wanting to make an extreme political point of view.

Hard to know what you mean by "actual vids". Aren't all videos actual or are you suggesting that some are unreal?

@cms neuf
You have no idea how the Donbas was after 2014. I traveled there a few times. Had zero problems with crossing in and out, and was using a US passport at the time. Sure, some locals tried to charge me more for things I would buy, but that happens in Poland in rural locations all the time. All you know is western propaganda. Money and oligarchs in the Donbas? A very small amount of people. Most were Ukrainian, and most were very poor by Polish standards. The middle class? They were watching TV's that were ten years old, driving cars that were ten or more years old. Wealthy in the Donbas was to have a car with no rust, and new tires that was 3 or fewer years old. So much western bull$hit reported. Russia has since completely funded the captured regions, and I would bet the people remaining there would never want to go back to Ukraine because Ukraine broke the agreements and there is resentment.

When you make a deal and have no intention of honoring it, you violate it from the very start. Anyone who cant understand that has never read a contract or been a party to a contract that was legally binding.

....mainly those since 7th october! I guess they show the real London....where barely only a third of the people has not immigrated recently (or not so recently) from far away places.

Just saying that the EU is the reason for all these problems was just a lie! There is no sign that Britain is better off now in any way....

After all the EU is made up by it's members, it didn't fall from the sky!

Even Farage admits it wasn't Brussels, it never was:


politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-uk-eu-brexit-has-failed/


politico.eu/article/brexit-has-failed-nigel-farage-is-the-new-poster-boy-for-remainer-campaign/

I'd not take that guy seriously. He is a far-right chancer who stood for parliament seven times and failed each time. Even the tories won't touch him.


Are those more 'actual' than other videos?


Nobody does say that. And you seem oddly fixated with London. Do your own experiences there differ much from the times you've been elsewhere in the U.K.?


The economy's growing, large companies are being renationalised, farmers are no longer bound by constraints from Brussels and we've opened up new blocks in the North Sea, so yes, there are plenty of signs.

He was the leader for the Brexit-movement, wasn't he? And he won!


If the pics out of Berlin had been awful, London was on another level....and a warning!

Out of context quote out of a long interview. also off topic. whateva farage has to to say about britain is really irrelllleant. ie the the west has to negotiate with putin. . asap.

Do you think this game will last much longer?

No, merely a face of it without much else to say. Not that there was a 'movement' as such. It appealed to people (or unappealed) for many different reasons. I disliked it however it's turned out well and we can expect many changes when we get a new government this year.

And you mention immigration every time. And Israel/Palestine. In my country and yours there are a diversity of views on both issues.


Quite. Nobody listens to him except his small fan club.

I'd not trust him on r*SSia either; people forget that he's an ex-employee of both r*SSia Today and the Iranian equivalent, Press TV.

Really! Who else was it?


Uncontrolled immigration, govs which are percieved having lost control over their borders, is the number one reason for the rise of the right in the US and in the whole of Europe...you neglect that at your own peril!

And yes, London has become a warning, Paris is a close second though....

IMHO that's the end of globaliziation!

Much less than it could have if the UK were still part of the EU, that much is clear.


Yet far from where it could still be. You allowed your rivals, particulary Paris to deprieve you of buisness they otherwise would have never had a shot at.

Brexit solved none of the UK problems and only increased the existing ones. You lost economic potential, political influence and are no step closer to solving the question of migration.


The EU is not an Empire. All of its' member states joined voluntarily, with smaller member states having a disproportionate amount of influence (which is why Hungary's Orban is such a problem). If any member state wants to leave, they can do so at any times.

Brexit was not an act of brave resistance. It happened because notorious conmen and liars reveived more trust than people who actually knew what they were talking about.

I would be cautious about the supposed decline of the EU. The Brexit vote happened almost 8 years, yet no country has made any steps to follow. If anything approval ratings have increased, in part due to the absolute s..-show of Brexit and in part due to Putin's war against Ukraine.

Sorry, guys, but you are in the ToDo list for denazification then. Right after Canada.

If you don't follow the news, there's little point in me doing journalists's jobs for them here.

And you mention immigration every time. An obsession.


Given that the economies of major countries who remained have done badly, I call BS on that.


Looks like you've not been following the news either, since jobs in financial/commodities trading are being moved right now from Paris to their natural home, London. The French economy meanwhile is performing poorly and their capital was blockaded by farmers last week.


It is.

It is precisely that. So many similarities the so-called
'Holy Roman Empire', itself a disaster.

And given that the economy, jobs and infrastructure have been improving since leaving, so far it's gone well.

We have elections in a few months...

elections.europa.eu/en/

The outcome is highly anticipated and even feared in some corners, because it has the potential to change EU politics within some basic parameters....if that is precisely how Empires work, then we might have just different ideas what makes an Empire!


Just admit that you cornered yourself here and let it be! It happens to the best of us! :)


...just a short google shows rather the contrary!


edition.cnn.com/2023/08/29/economy/uk-food-imports-safety-brexit/index.html


institute.global/insights/geopolitics-and-security/three-years-brexit-casts-long-shadow-over-uk-economy


riponsociety.org/article/britain-after-brexit-mugged-by-economic-reality/

.....and so on!

So do we however the result is likely to be a victory for a moderate party rather than extremists.


Don't be silly.

And don't pretend that Farage is other than a fringe figure and a has been.

The facts speak for themselves;

- London is not only still the primary financial market in that region of the world but there are financial trading jobs currently being moved there from mainland Europe

- We're no longer shackled to EU green targets and are maxing out our oilfields.

- We hold all the patents related to the new generation of nuclear power plants. The ones you are building will generate money for us as well as clean electricity for you.

-We are building new ethylene refineries, larger than any other in Europe. (You are touching something now that is made from ethylene.)

- The incoming government have announced that they are not renewing any of the contracts to operate public transport/utilities etc which during EU days had been bought by companies abroad; nationalisation was near impossible in EU days.

@Bratwurst Boy
Have you spent much time in the U.K.? Which parts have you spent most time in?

i know exactly what you are talking about. trust me you ruski scum and their children will be smashed b4 the ukri offspring of oun-b in canada.

Hardly. Like its' predecessor the Western Roman Empire it entered a period of terminal decline at one point, but that does negate the several succesful centuries that came before that.

But again, the EU is in no way, shape or form an Empire. In fact part of the attraction it presents to smaller countries is that it can provide them cover against imperial aspirations of larger countries.


Indeed, and BB has amply presented them to you. Nobody claimed that the UK had no strength left after Brexit, but imagine where the British economy could have been now if it was not burdened by the self-sabatoge that is Brexit.

But that is really the underlying cause of Brexit. Experts provide you with evidence that it was bad for the economy, and you choose to ignore them and instead believe in great plans that may or may not come true. Sure one can always dream, but that should dominate one's decision making.

Imagine where the German economy could have been now if Germany hadn't turned into a US who*re and joined the pimp in those stupid sanctions against Russia.

So how is it working for you, Mr. T?

That lasted for most of its history.


It isn't though, is it.

No matter how you'd like it to be.


Like yours with poor growth, a currency controlled by others, striking farmers, needing to still buy oil from r*SSia, a declining manufacturing sector and the rise (again) of a far-right party.

No thanks.

You mean where Germany could have been if Putin had not invaded Ukraine?

Siding with Putin was never an option. Getting cheap energy for the production of our products would have amounted to nothing if our closest trading partners had then proceeded to boycott us.