Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 9

That is all fine and dandy but if there is peace and then in four years' time Russia will attack Ukraine again how will you defend it? Send nukes on Moscow or make the French do it?

I'm simply curious how that pact will work without/Poland. I understand Germany if something goes wrong it is not your skin in the game but Ukrainians are not only brazen but stupid.

russian government going that extra mile to make sure the serfs realize they're not allowed an opinion....

twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1758802303841095987

loser culture and a loser country....

@Ironside
Germany for sure has the technology or means to prepare for a naval invasion of Russia in Kaliningrad and area around St.Petersburg in a couple of years if Germany is to be unleashed.

U.S.A in general is tired of paying for Europe (sentiments shared by American posters here)

Heck, with help from Norway, Sweden and Finland Germany would be able to invade Murmansk simultaneously. It's not like ww2 when most of Europe tolerated the Soviet Union past 1941 due to it's war with a aggressive Germany.

Russia is making a lot of enemies in Europe now, Poland doesn't even need to lift a finger anymore truly. Unless Russia starts refocusing it's rivalry with the U.S.A and see what's happening on the ground, their situation will only get worse. All the cementation of Russian society will go out the window when Putin is gone (Tick tock), and then all the hatred spread in Ukraine, deals being made between Ukraine and rest of Europe will make the fall of the Soviet Union look like vacation in comparison.

I don't know why any Russia loving Russian would want this for Russia?! Just imagine Russia in 20-30 years. Putin is 100% to be gone by then, what's next?

What is happening in Europe now is unsustainable

Poland is the big still unknown card yet....

I still believe in the israeli shield, it has proven its mettle against Hamas, and Berlin has already said it could be modified to provide both countries, Germany and Poland. But for that it would need more than another pact, an even closer cooperation, outside of NATO....

The actual polish gov is not so anti-german as the one before, let's wait and see. It could very well be that the threat from the East will be the foundation for a new european core...France - Germany - Poland!

In the end that is Polands decision....but when the US really more or less leaves Europe (as is feared) Poland has to make some important decisions for its future.

Germany has their man in Poland now - Tusk. So maybe a newfound confidence, the thing is he is not generally supported and even fewer people trust him than support him.

It is not going to be an easy ride as he is breaking the Constitution right now and only a few months into his rule I see people hate him more and more....so I wouldn't count on him being in power for long.

As for Poland and cooperation, that needs to be done on diffent co9nsdions because so far Berlin thinks that alliance and cooperation bark orders, and Warsaw obeys even if that goes against our vital national interests. If that is the German view on cooperation I will pass!

It is obvious that that pact is worthless without Poland so what they are counting on? I mean Ukrinianas that is enough to get money and weapons for now? Maybe that is all there is.

@Bratwurst Boy
The US will never leave Poland. Too many interconnections now. Lots of American companies here, and the military people I have met talk about how well things have been constructed for long term deployment.

@Mr Grunwald
Its not that the US is tired of paying for Europe as much as it is that Americans are tired of not taking care of things at home. If the government was actually trying to solve US problems at home, all Americans wouold support assistance in Europe. When the country that founded Democracy, and lead the world in so many ways, refuses to help its own citizens, refuses to enforce its own laws, and allows an invading force to cross the border, then America has a lot they need to clean up at home first. It is not different than any EU country wanting to look out for themselves first. Why when the American people demand their government protect them at home first is America all of a sudden the fall guy? Really it is quite the double standard.

Tusk is not Germany's guy. He said the other day Germany still has to pay reparations for WW2.

I guess it's on Poland then....if it can be trusted with european matters, with european security and safety, it will have no problems to take the lead.

It will take some time for Germany to rebuild our military, it would be nice to have someone able and willing to take over....only spitting from the sidelines won't do!

What would you want Tusk to do?


Most Europeans actually count on that.....also that even a president Trump could be only in power for a few years.....but still, he pointed a fat finger to some real existing wrongs and problems....Europe HAS to step up militarily, we (Germany) can no longer be such a fare dodger! So, things are gonna change...

Poland can certainly be trusted more than most on the mainland and needs to develop its own defence industry.


A very bad idea.


We certainly need Turkey on side.

Scandinavia is key as well.

Yes!
We certainly need Turkey on our side.
That would be useful!

Scandinavia is key as well.
Ditto!
---


Get lost! He belongs to that sort of politician in Poland we don't need anymore, had enough of those creeps for the last 30 years, time for a change!

---


I never begrudge Germany's right to shape its own policies and aims even if history proved they are bad at it. So my only input is to think things over really well this time and if you think you would rather have Poland as an ally, there need to be certain boundaries and conditions for it to work.

Well....in that regard Scholz may be an asset....he for sure is a cautious "thinker"....but I might give back that sentiment, it's also Poland which needs to think it over, if it needs and wants Germany as an ally this time!

So....the developments will be for sure interesting!

Just imagine the US in 20-30 years. Debt - 60 trillion, annual deficit - 3 trillion, illegals - 70 million. Inflation - 100%.

What is happening in the US is unsustainable.

So post about it on the US thread because we do not give two hoots about it.

Want a wall ? Build a wall

@Novichok
*Clap clap clap*
So now according to you Russia can feel free to invade U.S.A? You seem to dream about it too much

@Bratwurst Boy


Taking the lead also means contributing disproportionally to the cause and making (at least financial) sacrifices. Something no previous Polish government has been ready for. Maybe this one will be different.

....if they get a majority of the Poles behind it they for sure could make the difference for Europe!

Quote me.


Oh, yes you do, little Polish boy...When we hit the bottom, you will the day after...

...and we are going down...Just look at the curves...Show me one that says the future is bright.

Sure. And who knows, maybe Tusk can succeed on this. His government had a strong start, he has good approval ratings and he has made it clear that Poland under his leadership will again become an influential player in Europe. Will be interesting to see if the Weimar Triangle becomes relevant again.

Art of reading between the lines seems unobtainable by you. That explains a lot of your behaviour and your perspectives

He's still waiting for his handlers' instructions about how to comment on the killing of Navalny....

@Bratwurst Boy
I am becoming less and less confident that Trump or Biden will be in office next year. Biden now going to get a lot of pressure after his doctor said he didnt have to take cognative tests for his annual physical that every president has to take. Look for that to turn into a big issue in the next week. Trump cannot sustain all these legal losses. If the election case in Georgia is not stalled, or dropped after the recent corruption hearings, I dont see him making it to the nomination.

Ukraine is running out of everything now, and they have retreated in Avdiivka. How many hundreds or thousands died protecting that useless piece of property?

They never taught us how to read blank papper. They said: read the letters, azholes...


Excellent question, PAK. I will check to see what answers you got later today...

....it would be better for all! There should be an age limit for people with so much responsibility....everybody who has grandparents or any other older family knows that...they just are no longer as mentally fit and physically able and stress resistent as they need to be!


Scholz is already taking up the US slack and promised Selensky billions "for as long as it takes" with that recent security agreement last friday...as long as the Ukrainians think this war is worth fighting they might have french and german support...

....Germany committed to not only support Ukraine's defense against Russia's invasion "for as long as it takes," but to also assist Kyiv "in building up modern, resilient armed forces to deter any future attack," German Chancellor Olaf Scholz told reporters in Berlin.....

politico.eu/article/ukraine-signs-security-pacts-with-germany-france/

...In addition to the security arrangement, Scholz also announced a new €1.1 billion military support package for Ukraine, which includes 36 self-propelled howitzers, 120,000 rounds of artillery ammunition, two Skynex air defense systems and additional missiles for the IRIS-T air defense system.

Later in the day, Zelenskyy and French President Emmanuel Macron signed a separate bilateral security agreement in which Paris pledged to "contribute to the long-term structural and comprehensive strengthening of Ukraine." The agreement will remain valid so long as Ukraine is not part of NATO, Macron said.

Macron said the French and German agreements are "complementary." ....

Which is shameful. The US spent 20 years pressuring Ukraine to dissarm and reassuring it that the US had its back if russia were to cause problems.

Then 2014 happened and the feckless Obama did nothing...

Then 2022 happened and it seemed the US might actually keep its promise

Then 2024 happened and feckless Johnson is hoping for a russian victory....

Not sure if that is a good idea. You only have to look back at our recent history. Konrad Adenauer was almost in his eigthies when first elected, yet he became one of Germany's best chancellors ever. Of course it was a different time back then, but still. While Lübcke was elected German president in his early 60s, but became infamous for many mental lapses which are often attributed to a neurological disease. Ronald Reagan was probably a similar case. People simply age differently.

True, but we will never know if Adenauer was still at his best as he was in office...he for sure was also already weakened by his age, IMHO!

But yeah...it's not easy....the Democrats could have avoided that difficult question with chosing someone fitter to follow Biden! So it also looks like they just don't have the able options....

PiS homo sovieticuses and nazio boys like you don`t count, they have always hated the Saviour so we are already sued to it. .
What matters is the Saviour`s party is growing in polls. How can you explain it????


Basic logic suggests such political solutions.


Of course but PiS homo sovieticuses or nazio boys like Iron don`t accept reality - they create their own one which is more attractive to them.

You are constantly missing the crux of the matter here BB, I guess due to propaganda in Germany as they present a skewed picture here.

I told you a long time ago that Poland would be for an alliance with Germany but that must be built on some clear lines which and what interests are respected and consist of a fair game and whatnot, There could be some concessions but can't only be one-sided and so on.

So far I don't see a willingness on the German side to build that trust, they expect followers and that is not going to happen, that Tusk is again in power is just a fluke and it will pan out soon enough.

In short, Germany needs to be ready to make concessions, and from what I can see they are anything but. Instead, we have people like Tacitus with their rigid prejudice internal racism, and arrogant nonsense who are unable to see outside the box.

I have always said that it won't be easy because we have very few common interests an alliance needs to be worked on by both sides.

----


Which Poland did and now it blew it up into its face and all you are happy about it and your Ukrainian new friend is most brazen about it.

----


Don't count on this. He is less popular than you think and you don't understand how public opinion in Poland works, they just give him some time and tolerate a lot until it doesn't. and puff!

Which ones?

Physically maybe, but he had a sharp mind. And with age comes experience and his experience helped him tremendously. He knew what he was talking about and his experience had also given him a keen insight into reading people.

I can only recommend his political autobiography which he wrote after he retired in his 90s and is available for free which still praised today by historians for its' clarity.

While you are an expert after spending 30 years in emmigration. hahahaha

Darling, stop shamming sb you aren`t. You are still a plastic Pole, the same as Milo or Polo - you don`t see anything apart from your sick natio agenda. Your musings on Poland and its people are worthless.