Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 9

We should be happy to have such committed supporters.

Still, the question remains - what is the sentiment on the street in Chernogoriya.

Where you slaughtered thousands and many thousands more fled from.....

It wasn't my original idea but the more you think about it (occam's razor) the reason for the invasion is russians like killing Ukrainians (anybody really) and all the rest is rationalization.

Killing non-russians (or russians in a pinch) is how the impoverished masses deal with their cognitive dissonance of living in garbage and thinking of themselves as a 'great power'....

Some of the guys that were big in the war early-on (on our side), said as much.

The departed Vladlen Tatarskiy frequently said - "War is the Russian Tao."

Motorola (a nom de guerre), a few times expressed his sadness over the realization that one day this war must end.

In general, if you look at Russian history, art, literature - there's a strong argument to be made that at least a certain social strata really sees no greater purpose in life than to fight.

In war, there is truth and clarity. War forces one to think about things one might not want to think about otherwise.

The purest people are found on the front. There is joy and beauty in the killing. This is the sort of uncomfortable truth which neither Ukrainian nor Russian women, very much enjoy about their significant others.

It's clear to me also, that we are not the only people in the world which on some level relish war. Look at the Japanese. The Māori. The Navajo. Some countries are just like that.

If NATO got dissolved, would the US be defenseless?

The Warsaw Pact is gone and Russia is not defenseless so why the fvck does the US need NATO to defend itself?

The US could conquer the rest of the NATO countries in probably 6 months - thereby turning them from willing, to conscripted alliance members.

The only countries that represent some kind of challenge to the United States are Russia and China.

Both just want to be left alone.

If your post is in response to mine, let me clarify my question...


Or why does the US need NATO to defend "America"?

Yes it was.

Nothing can threaten the United States except complete nuclear annihilation. If we did that to the US, it means we would likely be buried under a 2 meter layer of dust as well.

It's a reason why our two countries will never, ever, fight each other. As far as I understand, the possibility of our two countries fighting each other is why NATO exists.

What I tried to illustrate through my point about the US being able to wipe out the rest of NATO, is that NATO is completely useless to the United States.

THANK YOU!

Hey, Russia-hating azholes, did you read what Bobko just wrote? You are useless parasites on my dime.

Translation: The US is safer without you. Go away...and take care of your own sh*it.

Suck it up, Daddy Warbucks! NATO's got a permanent lifeline to your wallet!

NATO launches massive war games on Vladimir Putin's doorstep as WW3 fears mount
Today NATO will start a huge military exercise involving 20,000 troops from 13 nations right on Vladimir Putin's doorstep as the dictator accuses the alliance of preparing to strike Russia.

That's why I despise Western press wh*res and PF Russia-hating morons...You deserve each other for that idiotic "dictator" in the above sentence. At least Putin is a patriot as opposed to the idiot in the White House and his open border...

Other than that, I would like to see the US warmongers' reaction to 20,000 troops from the Warsaw Pact nations planning a military exercise in Mexico.

Does "going fvcking apes" come to mind?

Old news as that was reported 8 hours ago by the Reb.

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-affected-started-88232/11/#msg1956763

The shameful scandal about Germany leaking other countries' secrets is just growing and growing. Apparently that last incident is just the tip of the iceberg.

Lord Cameron is going over to deal with it, however it would have been better to summon Scholtz and his incompetent generals to London. Assuming they could be trusted not to pass on anything they heard there to Moscow.

@mafketis
The first warnings and obvious news reports of Russia building up on the border started to trickly out nearly two months before they invaded. That is plenty of time to prepare within your own borders for what was becoming obvious. Z continued to publicly deny that any invasion was going to happen up until the day before it actually happened. All this while the US was providing intelligence on this, and providing warnings to all of Europe that this would happen.

When you couple this with Ukraine walking away from a peace deal that would have allowed them in the EU, and all they would have lost was Crimea, Z is either incompetent or the dumbest person in elected office outside of Biden. Putting this together with Boris and Biden, Ukraine has been fvcked into losing a lot more of its population than had to be lost. All the talk about Russia and its society is useless, and I am no fan. But it does nothing to change the facts that this war could have been over a long time ago. It doesnt change the fact that tens of thousands of men on both sides have been killed, and children left fatherless. And if we really GAF about children, as we complain of them being killed here, then why would anyone want this war to continue?

"all".... so russia was going to withdraw from D and L?

In one sense this isn't about russia and Ukraine at all but about putain wanting to create a world where 'great powers' can absorb others at willl...

Sudetenland didn't make Germany happy enough to be peaceful and current zone of russian occupation won't make russia happy enough to stay within its borders.

Head honcho of RT just said in public Armenia won't exist as an independent country in a few years (she likes that idea despite being Armenian herself)...

The problem with external aid to Ukraine so far is about treating the symptoms and not the disease (russian imperial ambitions) as outlined here:

twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1764896809061658895

This is the problem with you eternal war hawks, history did not start in 1938 and Hitler.

But 1938 is the best example of how appeasement of an aggressive government with imperial ambitions doesn't work.

Do you have examples of appeasement that did work? Please share them....

Quite, however the nation which stood behind Adolf (and Wilhelm before him) is still there, the nation which stood behind Uncle Joe still harbours imperial ambitions and the Turkey/Persia axis is still making bad choices.

Meanwhile the west stands by and argues amongst itself and France is even in an alliance and had compromised its sovereignty with one of them. Poland too at the moment.

1938's shilly shallying appeasement led to a devastating war, and the longer we leave this, the worse it will get.

It's not appeasement if the war has already started (and not going in favour of a particular party.)

Was Finland and South Korea negotiating with USSR and North Korea respectively appeasement?
Maybe i'll ask ChatGPT to find examples from ancient history

Now there's a triumph of 'negotiated peace'! Hard to imagine a country that is a bigger success!


Germany is the Sick Man of the EU..... prove me wrong!

And yet the fate of Europe in general and Ukraine in particular seems to be rely heavily on us. What does that say about the other European countries?

Scholz at the very least wants russia to not lose..... that is a defeatist appeasing approach.


They suck even worse (excluding those countries that have really stepped up - Finland, Baltics, Poland, Czechia.....)

Time to establish the Fourth Reich to sort everything out?

It doesn't though.

It just means there's geography that can work against it or for it.

That leak of secrets is so crass that it's hard to believe it isn't deliberate. Just how compromised is the regime there? Have they been passing secrets all along?


Perhaps it's time to return to the four zones with Poland having r*ssia's.

@mafketis


Well, or just more realistic. For Ukraine to win, they'll need much more help from the other European countries, and I don't see much happening on this front.


Well, Finland talked big but failed to deliver quite a few, e.g. with the Leopards tanks. And Poland started fast and then dropped out of the race midway.

The Baltics and the Czech Republic have done very well, but are too small to make a difference.

@jon357


It does though, by all indications. Especially now when the US commitment to Europe is in doubt.

I'd happy if other countries were to take that burden from us, but it does not look like this is the case.


Let us be real here. I get it, you like to take digs at Germany, but the leaks while embarassing, seem to have not involved any grave secrets.

The British government would not be sending that buffoon Cameron but someone substantial if the matter was really considered serious.

They used WebEx instead of their encrypted military platform!

Meanwhile.... Ukraine, a country without a navy in any meaningful sense of the word.... sank yet another russian warship.

Say "Do svidanja!" Sergei Kotov.... made inoperable near the Kerch s bridge

twitter.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1764940331802362274

$65 million at the bottom of the sea...

They happen every year, but you don't hear about them because they are not as attention grabbing as that instance in 1938.

For example, my own country successfully demarcated a border with China, with whom we fought an undeclared war over the same territories in the 1960s. Russia was a loser in this exchange of territories, but instead it settled its disputes with China once and for all, and was able to begin building a working relationship with the most populous country in the world. India and China, meanwhile, are still not able to fully demarcate their border, and this represents a constant risk of a full out war, as well as acting as a break on both countries' economic potential.

Other countries that neighbor China, have handed over huge chunks of territory willingly. The local nationalists were of course livid, but again - those countries were able to establish working trade relations that enormously benefited their economies, and simultaneously removed the risk of conflict with China. Is this the foolish appeasement of a dangerous imperial power?

Is it better to be like the Philippines, being prodded by America to fight tooth and nail over every island reef, all the while risking a confrontation with China? Would it perhaps be better for the Philippines to accept the loss of some islands, but instead guarantee themselves a beneficial and peaceful relationship with a huge neighbor? I don't know.

Point is, appeasement happens every year, all around the globe. Smaller, weaker countries routinely have their arms twisted by bigger, stronger countries. Whether it's over land, or water rights, or forced military access, or what have you. If every single one of those East Timors and Kurdistans got into a pose, and declared a fight to the death for their freedoms and values against their predatory neighbors - it would be a pretty miserable result.

1938 is simply a bludgeon with which hawks have been beating everyone since WW2.

Last example, let's look at Hong Kong.

1) China was promised it would be returned.
2) Many people felt it was wrong to "abandon" the Hong Kongers, and that it represented a betrayal to hand it over to Communist China.
3) When it was handed over, it immediately came to represent 25% of Chinese GDP.
4) Are Hong Kongers less free now? Yes.
5) Are many Hong Kongers unhappy with the new arrangement, and as a result moving to places like the UK and Canada? Yes.
6) Was it still absolutely right for the UK to keep its word, even before an odious regime, and over the heads of a free and prosperous population that wanted to remain with the UK? Of course. Britain benefited enormously from friendly relations with China, and the world was freed of one more potential hotspot.

If promises to Russia were kept, this would similarly be seen as appeasement and "bending over" for Russia by Poland and other Eastern European states. However, it also could have prevented the current conflagration. Just to be clear, I mean not the EU but NATO.

BOOM!

And another submarine is born. :-D

How much does that make now? 1/4 of the Russian Black Sea fleet and 1/3 of their strength gone?