Poland`s aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 10

I am so glad and hope you are correct.

I am.

Luckily Russia is useless too.

Remember that they are fighting the descendants of Shukhevych, Bandera, OUN-UPA and SS-Galizien. Do you recall what happened when UPA had to fight either the Red Army or LWP? The ran like crazy! They were efficient against pregnant women, children and civilians in general but when they had to fight regular army units - how they ran! The way UPA ran makes Usain Bolt look like a limping invalid. These days, Russia cannot defeat the grandchildren of UPA for over two years! This gives you an idea of the decline of Russian armed forces.

Its clear what the Russian military is very good at, and that includes killing civilians, targeting civilians infrastructure, cannon-fodder infantry tactics, building an effective defensive line and launching lots of missiles and drones. No one should deny that, we have over 24 months of battlefield evidence to confirm this

But no they not an effective or well trained military and they would collapse spectacularly against the US and NATO.

Compared to most previous wars the number of civilian casualties in Ukraine is rather low.

Noctis Draven
@DravenNoctis

I'm noticing a change from Russia, a transformation of sorts. After the fall of the Soviet Union Russia was sold out to the west, much like Germany and Japan after WW2. The people were broken, the economy in shambles. Russia took on a reputation of being for sale and corrupt.

This era is what some Russians referred to as, "the terrible 90s." Russians were quiet, there was a heaviness that hung over the Russian people and culture. There has been a shift, since Putin has taken office Russia has been quietly healing, growing and now thriving. Removing the corrupt oligarchs, strengthening the military and embracing instead of shaming Russian culture.

Now, with the west at war with Russia via Ukraine and economic sanctions the Russian people have banded together in ways not seen in our lifetimes. By all means Russia has much of the world working against them but instead of folding and crumbling they are thriving. Decidedly winning on the battlefields of Ukraine, leading a cultural revolution in Africa and leading an economic revolution through BRICS, Russia has nearly completely filled the void left by the United States, and it has done so not through threats, force and economic pressure as the US and Britain has done but instead through trust and good will.

The most noticeable change I see however is the Russian people are different now. They are proud of their heritage, they realize that being Russian means thousands of years of rich history instead of simply being forever in the shadow of the Soviet Union. Russia has give more to the world and humanity than there is space for me to list. From revolutionary breakthroughs in science, medicine and technology to breathtaking art, artists and musicians. From the dancers on ice to the dancers on stage and the warriors on the battlefield.

Russians have realized that much of the world's animosity comes from envy, jealousy and bitterness. My friends the greatest crime Russia has ever and continues to commit is sticking around, thriving and not selling out to the west as so many others have.

The old analogy is that pressure makes diamonds and if that is true, with all the pressure on Russia 🇷🇺 and they still manage to thrive, grow and lead, then Russia is a flawless diamond 💎, a true jewl of the east.

From a humble American, well done Russia, well done 🇷🇺.



twitter.com/DravenNoctis/status/1788133997144420636

Think about the constant targeting of Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure by Russia.

Think about the numbers. There have been 11,000 civilian deaths in Ukraine for over two years. Civilian deaths in Poland in September '39 (one month!) were over 100,000. In Gaza Strip - 34,000 civilian victims already.

Sorry, but if there's one reproach that cannot be made against Russia in this war, it's the number of civilian casualties.

PUTIN solves unpaid wages in a few minutes

Workers who have not received their salary for a long time sent a letter to Vladimir Putin... When he came, this happened...

I especially enjoyed the moment how he ordered the jewish oligarch Deripaska to give him back his pen after he signed. 😁

1939 different wars different times.
Gaza maybe there is something in what you say but there are two factors one needs to take into consideration, Gaza is a huge refugee camp, not a country, and they don't have anything that resembles anti-craft defense so they can be bombed with impunity.

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On the other hand, it doesn't seem like they are targeting civilians extensively. But you would need to have real data to know.

Source? One problem is that figures are unavailable for areas under russonazi occupation... most estimates for Mairupol alone are a lot higher than 11,000....

statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/


Source?

Why use such an ugly word like "blackmail"?

In earlier times people had more elegant names for this. "Brinksmanship", "posturing", "raising the ante", etc.

To me, it seems pretty normal that a country of almost 350 million people, doesn't want to mortgage out its security to a region (Eastern Europe) that has a combined population even smaller than Russia's and almost three times smaller than America's.

Why should 350M people face annihilation on behalf of 140M people (Eastern Europe minus Russia), that they don't trade with very much, don't travel to for tourism, and in general know almost nothing about?

The main group of people from Poland, in America, are Jews... that typically hate Poland. A common slogan on US university campuses these past few weeks has been "go back to Poland", and the Jewish response is - "that place where my ancestors were murdered?".

The actual Poles that live around Chicago, Detroit, and Milwaukee are by and large conservative Trumpsters, that don't very much care about Ukraine.

America has a deeper interest and more attachment to the Dominican Republic and Haiti than to Lithuania or Poland. So imagining them nuking Moscow in response to a tactical nuclear strike against Rzeszów is definitely idiocy.

You think so? The percentage of USians with european roots should be alot higher than those with dominican or haitian...

You are bonded to the old country because of your roots yourself, aren't you? Definitely more than to Haiti or the Dom Rep....I guess...right?

This undeniable european heritage will have in my opinion still enough power over any US gov for a long time to come...(okay...besides Obama, but he was rather the exception that proved this rule)

A Russian occupier has been apprehended in Poland while attempting to enter Europe right from the front lines in Ukraine.
Polish border guards arrested the Russian aggressor who had deserted immediately after crossing the Belarusian border.
How barbaric of Poland.
In America he would have been given immediate amnesty, a free house, free food, free healthcare, free education at a university, and more rights than most U.S. citizens have.

OMG - there you go again ranting about your crappy nukes

Didn't we tell you already we are not scared ?

Probably the same as where number of babies raped by teaspoons and number of stolen toilets was published... ;)

@Velund
You shouldnt try to make legal arguments about Sevastopol, when Russia is illegaly in Ukraine now. Not a good look.

Of course, but the overwhelming majority are Germans, Irish, Dutch, Italians, and then only a much smaller proportion is Eastern European.

Poles also have the same problem as Russians, in that they disappear into America within a generation - look at Rich and his kids.

But back to the Dominican Republic and Haiti...

The Dominican Republic is the largest economy in the Caribbean. American bilateral trade numbers with them are $17B a year. Compare that to just $11B with Poland. Half of the baseball players in America, and probably a quarter of the music industry is Dominican. Dominican cigars and rum are consumed massively, and Americans vacation there in droves.

Haiti, is a bleeding sore on America's border, and one of the largest sources of refugees. America treats it in effect as a colony - helping out with disaster aid and propping up weak governments. Again, when it comes to popular culture - there are tons of Haitians in entertainment - like Wyclef Jean or Kodak Black.

The most famous "Poles" I can think of are the NFL player Rob Gronkowski and the actor John Krasinski. I doubt they could locate Krakow on a map, or know who the current prime minister of Poland is.

But at least they exist and you know of them....and I wouldn't value this with "locating on a map" to highly...there is always Google! :)

Still...educated people with influence up high would and will know!

Sometimes I guess that the decision to nuke japanese cities instead of german ones was also partly because the decider had more connections to the old continent than with Asia...but that is just a wild guess of course!

Here, read this article from "Foreign Policy" - not a publication you can really accuse of being Russia-lovers.

Source: foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/

The article has a nice title, "The Bomb Didn't Beat Japan - Stalin Did".

Here's some quotes:

Gen. Anami on Aug. 13 remarked that the atomic bombings were no more menacing than the fire-bombing that Japan had endured for months. If Hiroshima and Nagasaki were no worse than the fire bombings, and if Japan's leaders did not consider them important enough to discuss in depth, how can Hiroshima and Nagasaki have coerced them to surrender?

In fact, forget about the fire bombings of Tokyo - Hamburg and Dresden suffered worse than Hiroshima and Nagasaki... but Germany did not surrender because of Dresden or Hamburg.

Japan still had 4M soldiers ready to protect the Japanese mainland against invasion.

Another quote:

It didn't take a military genius to see that, while it might be possible to fight a decisive battle against one great power invading from one direction, it would not be possible to fight off two great powers attacking from two different directions. The Soviet invasion invalidated the military's decisive battle strategy, just as it invalidated the diplomatic strategy. At a single stroke, all of Japan's options evaporated. The Soviet invasion was strategically decisive-it foreclosed both of Japan's options-while the bombing of Hiroshima (which foreclosed neither) was not.

In Russian histories, this is well covered, while in America they still teach kids in school that dropping the bomb was an act of kindness.

Thanks for the link, interesting background info!

Still....I'm with the old timeline....they discussed three days after Hiroshima, but Nagasaki drove the point truly and quickly home....Truman could and would let a "rain of ruin" down on Japan!

You must remember nuclear weapons were an absolute terrorizing and shocking first back then...and they had to fear more, even countless Hiroshima's and Nagasaki's if they wouldn't capitulate...but of course, Stalin opening a second front that near had definitely it's part in their decision.

@Bratwurst Boy

Japan was largely clueless about the state of America's nuclear program, definitely much behind the Soviet Union... but by 1944 it already could piece certain parts of the puzzle together.

Japanese physicists could observe that European, British, and American physicists stopped publishing articles on the subject of fission.

I imagine they knew that America had limited potential to produce further bombs within a short time frame.

Regardless, I think the best argument is the one cited above - that the destruction wrought by the atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were not sufficient to change Japanese strategic calculus.

....and here I disagree! My point is that they knew NOT! Nuclear secrecy was enormous at hat time....Japan had no ways of knowing where the US stood and how many more nukes they could drop on japanese cities and if at all. But after Hiroshima and Nagasaki so quickly after another they really had to fear the absolute worst!

But that's all guessing....I wonder if there will maybe old japanese texts surface at one time in the future...with the proof of what was truly discussed back then:)

There was no fissionable material (U/Pu) for more bombs. There was enough material for two to the moment, and it was used...

BTW: Learn what "The Great Silver Meltdown" means, and why commemorative pre-World War II silver bars are so rarely seen by collectors.

Velund, I got my schooling in the socialist GDR....be assured that I got a very soviet-friendly education, also concerning Hiroshima and Nagasaki!

"The Great Silver Meltdown" was not related at all to Soviet affairs. ;) It was part of Manhattan project that ruined a lot of collectible silver bars - to use silver for the only available at the moment uranium enrichment technology. US Government put every available kilogram of silver there to increase throughput, including collectibles that worth much more than the metal itself.

You are not reacting to my (and some historians') main argument - that the atomic bomb was no more frightening than what they had already seen.

By that point, the Japanese had already seen what happened to Dresden and Hamburg, as well as their own Tokyo.

The fire-bombing campaigns of the Allies were no less terrible than atomic bombings. Especially, in primarily wood-built cities like those that existed in Japan.

Even though the two bombs were of different design, they both were quite inefficient. Not sure which of the bombs this applies to, but only 1.7% of the material actually fissioned. Modern nuclear weapons are in some cases thousands of times more powerful.

The bottom line, for this argument, is that the atomic bombings did not produce a very strong impression on the Japanese leadership compared to other very sh*tty factors which were shaping up.

We have enough access to declassified Japanese's archives to note, that they devoted an unusually small amount of time to discussing the results of the atomic bombings. To some extent, this is explained by them not being quite certain what type of weapon was used...

I totally disagree!

Burned villages, town and cities have always been part of human history, every war party did it.....but the shadow of people burnt into the stone, the only thing left of a human being fully alive only a second before....the plain scale of the immediate mass destruction...not to mention the longterm consequences of radioactivity....

The nukes were a new level of destruction, till now unimaginable...they shocked the world and that they should, they terrorized Japan into capitulation, that is my opinion!

Maybe we have to agree to disagree....

The Japanese military staff (this is a matter of historical fact), had at their disposal approximately 4M soldiers, and an additional 28M of citizen militia. They estimated, that they would lose up to 20M people in the defense of the Japanese Home Islands.

The United States, estimated, that at a minimum it would lose 800K dead and up to 5M wounded, throughout these operations.

If the Japanese were ready to lose up to 20M people in a decisive defense of their core territories, why on Earth would they care about the loss of 200K people (mostly civilians), albeit to an exotic weapon?

In World War 2, 200K people could be the amount of people that die over the course of several weeks in a large operation.

Germany and Friends, lost 800,000-1.5M people attempting to take a single Soviet city - Stalingrad.

the decision to bomb to Japanese and not German cities was as far as I know simplistic: the bombs were simply not ready before the fall of Germany