Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 16

@mafketis
Tell the whole story. Russia gave security guarantees in exchange for Ukraines nukes, and the NATO agreed to not move closer to Russia. So who broke the agreement first? Deep shame for the US? I dont think so. Deep shame for Biden and Harris for ignoring the US problems in order to further the MIC agenda is who should feel shame.

Deliver the aid promised? It has to be produced doesnt it? And frankly I hope it gets stopped in its tracks. Enough is enough. Europes problem, not the US.

Those promises were never made in writing and probably not orally. In any case North Nigeria is in the wrong.

How is Trump going to make peace apart from by giving the aggressor land from the victim ?

Russia only correcting papal mistakes made in greed. That is just one aspect of Russia being right on this one.

Can you link to the document in which that promise was made by NATO? Was the commitment given by the NATO Secretary General?

So... you want Poland out of NATO?

@cms neuf
US secretary of state James A. Baker made to former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev during a meeting on February 9, 1990. In a discussion on the status of a reunited Germany, the two men agreed that NATO would not extend past the territory of East Germany, a promise repeated by NATO's secretary general in a speech on May 17 that same year in Brussels.

@mafketis
NATO works for Poland to be a member of. It just doesnt make sense for the US. The US cannot be responsible for everyone else's wars moving forward. Its clear even the left doesnt want more wars.

Ukraine could have kept all but Crimea had they finished the peace deal with Russia in March of 2022. Boris stepped in on Bidens direction to keep the war going, and the MIC can keep raking in the profits. Look at the people who support Harris. Dick Cheny was the biggest proponent of war in modern day history as a republican, and he supports Harris continuing to spend on the war. This war needs to end. It really is that simple.

@mafketis
There are a lot people that grew up during Cold War era that think in east vs west terms and are most comfortable with it and made it easy and simple. Those people will always and want to put Poland in the east category and eastern bloc. They would see Poland out of NATO as repair and not as a damage! Foolish!

The May 17th speech said something quite different.

The other promises you refer to are nothing of the kind, just discussions and anyway James Baker did not speak for NATO.

There is no document or promise.

Why are you so anxious to justify illegal invasions ?

@cms neuf
You might want to go back and read the speech. And the official transcript nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16117-document-06-record-conversation-between There is no justification for this war. There is also no justification for the UK and US to have extended it beyond March of 2022. You say there is no document or promise? Is Germany not unified?

Okay, if you believe that fairytale and get your info from politico.... then... there's no point in responding to you.

The transcript shows no promise from NATO. James Baker was not a head of state and anyway this was a conversation with the UNNR, which still occupied 3 future NATO members

The stuff about March 2022 - all nonsense. Putler could stop the war tomorrow

Most leftist posters here only want people who agree with their point of view. Never discuss actual facts, only interpretations. And when given an official transcript of a meeting where Baker mentions no expansion of NATO three times, suddenly its not official and he was not a head of state. The Secretary of State acts on behalf of the President of the United States, and when speaking, speaks for the President and the country. More inconvenient facts.

Vlad or Z could stop the war tomorrow. It takes a phone call from one to the other. Vlad would end the war in hours. Z wouldnt because he is a puppet to the UK and US.

I am not "leftist"

Putler is China's puppet, and sometimes Iran's. You think the UK is big enough to have puppets ?

There js no treaty or piece of paper saying NATO won't expand. All you have is a few conversations at the hotel bar

Please don't...You are only confirming what we already know ... that you are a moron averse to facts...

I wonder what he was promised as his retirement package...

Memo to Ukrainians: Watch this...and end this war in 10 seconds...


Expanding NATO is a form terrorism by intimidation.

If your dinner guests all came carrying AR-15s you would act differently than if they came unarmed - even if no shots were fired.

How did NATO "expand"? What was the mechanism if this "expansion"?

Next you're going to start talking about Victoria Nuland's cookies and refer to the Maidan as a "coup"....


And if Ukraine "stopped" the war it would mean the deaths of many thousands of Ukrainians, russia has been very clear about that.

God bless Russia for saving us Slavs from total assimilation into Eurabians.

@mafketis
The mechanism is allowing and then approving new members. Pretty simple. Maidan? I dont give a fvck about Madian. Ukraine is not part of the EU, so its none of the EU's business. I certainly wonder how it all went down and how it was orchestrated. In the end though, its none of the US business.

Ukraine could call Vlad and say hey, lets talk. Until we meet, lets stop where we are. Lots of lives saved. But it is Z who wont talk to Russia at all unless Russia leaves the territory it took, and that is completely unrealistic. Realistic talks could be had, but Z doesnt want them. Ukraine wont be getting all of the land back. That ship has sailed.

If there are no talks, then you can be assured thousands more on both sides will die. Its so nice though that those who want the fighting to continue havent picked up their guns or winter gear and headed to Ukraine to join the fight.

Actually the mechanism is that countries apply and then are or are not allowed to join. By your logic Poland should not have been allowed to join because of a verbal agreement....


It began over a russian-proxy leader breaking a campaign promise to seek membership.... very much the EU's business.

Do you mean last rites?

Who gives a fvck!

If the Warsaw Pact expanded to Mexico, would anyone in DC give a shlt about "the mechanism"?

Only azholes like you and Paulina operate at the level of retarded third-graders..."by the book"...

BTW, did it ever occur to you to thank PAK for his patient explanations in an attempt to make you less of a moron?

How about: Thanks, PAK. I didn't know that...

Feel free to copy and paste the above.

Russia saved Poland from eternal servitude to the western Europe.

The Red Army in Legnica - 300,000 of them - saved Poland being "liberated" by the West in a Vietnam-style "freedom and democracy" bullshlt.

Better red than dead...I was "red" then and I am not now because I am not dead. It's coming but not from a liberation bullet.

Future generations of Poles would understand.

Yeah. Ample time to learn about the shittiness of being subjugated by Moscow.
A country of Polish size, population and geopolitical location needs alliances or gets subjugated by stronger, warlike neighbours. We simply prefer alliance with USA and the collective West to another round of Russian enslavement.

Probably time to rethink that.... if the US won't even give Ukraine the aid that's already been approved then it will find a reason to abandon Poland when the time comes.

If you act this way, no one will make treaties with you.
Lets suppose that this is the case. That somehow US decided to abandon Poland + Baltic.

Do you think that NPT could be maintained?
And USA didn't wasted billion to get nothing. Russia capacity to conventionally take out Europe is much lower now. China is dissuaded from attacking Taiwan. USA military industrial complex is making a lot of money from not only from Ukraine but also from Poland being armed to the teeth.

I never said Russia is perfect. Non of us is.

But, history would prove that Russia saved us all as Slavs because reacted in Ukraine.

Why BS brate? Poland and Serbia were not able to resist to main players of western Europe. If Russia continued to be global gas station and pump cheep resources into EU, in 50 years all Poles and Serbs would be proud Eurabians. I mean, we are decent and proud and all that but we were/are weak to resit to Magna Germania. Russia had to punch it.

So, admit brate, don`t BS.

by bombing children's hospitals.... very weird idea of 'saved' you have...

I never said war is a nice thing. Plus, who knows who did it.

You want me to tell you how many Serbian children killed Vatican while your own government, on the dictate from western European powers, prevented you to ever know it?

So, to you, too. Don`t BS.

Jebite se svi.

But thats irrelevant because Poland isn't basing its identity, future and whole existence on being a part of great power. We literally don't give a sh*it, we want a modern rich state. And we wouldn't trade it for being slaves in some kleptocratic retard ran empire.

It is literally impossible for Poland to wage aggressive wars on its neighbors because CITIZENS not mindless SLAVES will not let the leadership do it.

And this is where the main difference comes into light. Poland has always been a land of law, rights and freedom. At first for up to 10% of population that was nobility but now it extends to everyone. Srusgoblinia always was a corrupt shithole where rulers lived in golden palaces while slaves died in the trenches.