Brexit 2019 and Poland

Exactly - the opposition are not opposed to an election- they just want to have one in sensible circumstances, not with grounded planes and a tumbling pound in the background

Remainers: We need an election to stop this coup!

Also remainers: No! Not now!

Brussels: We'll tell you when to have your little election, thank you very much!

????

Anything to back this?

do usług..

telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/05/brussels-wants-general-election-held-brexit-extension-granted/

not good optics for the EU or Remain... but neither has ever been much concerned with that....

That would be the Daily Telegraph that employed Boris until July

Boris said he would get a new deal - he hasn't because he did not present any new proposals

Then he tried to cancel parliament but screwed that up

Then he fired 20 of his own MPs so he no longer has a majority

He is not trusted by anyone to hold his word so all formal powers are being invoked to control him

Which of those is the EUs fault ?

We will see, but I don't think Labour will vote for an election unless they do better in the polls.

Labour will be in no hurry because every time Johnson opens his mouth he buys them some more votes. Let's see how much self-inflicted damge he can sustain first. This is going tremendously well for us liberals.

Corbyn is not a liberal in any sense of the word.......... :-)

It's hard to believe that there could ever be a British Prime Minister worse than May.

But I am - if Labour had Starmer he would sweep the Toreis away. McDonnell would too, I suspect.

Johnson could have been better than May but he made a huge mistake by trying to force an issue when he didn't have the numbers in parliament and then firing those 20 people leaves him as a lame duck just a month after starting.

Still, he can speak Ancient Greek and is pretty good at picking up women

It's clear from that remark that you don't unerstand what the Irish border actually is.


All I can say is that you have an Irish wife, as you've so often claimed, I'll show my arse in the Vatican. Nobody of your generation, married to an Irish person, could be as ignorant as you are.

As long as you're clear on what direction the compulsion is coming from...


Well the UK has shown that is completely incapable of governing itself so maybe it's for the best that Brussels takes over...

So that's that then. No election until after October 31st, Johnson forced to go cap in hand for an extension, because that's what the legal status dictates, and No deal dead in the water. All is well in the world - for now.

But this farmer still seems to want Johnson off his land:)

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Democracy has been beaten back for the time being....

If the EU had any sense they'd say no to any extension (and want to see the back of the UK ASAP).

Or... I'd say "Right! You want an extension? Then you'll have to commit to the Euro and Schengen!" how would you handle that trade off?

A ridiculous comment.That's a bit like saying Trump is worse than Obama.
Stop trying to bait The Brits... that war on PF was a long time ago and is over now.


You need to check out what The Irish Govt said the other day about their being checks away from the border before you accuse me of ignorance and show your own.

BTW, my Irish wife agrees with me.


Maf, you are one of the few intelligent posters on here :-)

Sometimes he comes up with extremely erudite reasoned debate.
This not one of those occasions. The truth is simply that you happen to singing from the same hymn sheet. And it's a poor tune, akin to Polish Christmas dirges.


The EU is not Trump and his cronies Maf - it doesn't threaten and dictate. Name one case where it does, pray.

Greece...

I don't think we are.
Maf is more cynical than I am, he doesn't think Brexit will be allowed to happen.Though we both agree that The EU has turned into a monster.

But what I like about him is that he is realistic in his outlook and doesn't allow his judgement to be clouded by politics or nationalism.

I don't know Starmer very well, but McDonnell is a Communist.
You lived in Communist Poland and want that for The UK????
Really?

But Maf has an agenda. Like you, he wants a weakened EU and stronger ties with America. He needs reminding of exactly what, if anything, America has ever done for Poland apart from sending the Peace Corp and a few Mormon bible bashers, and Ronald McDonald of course.

The EU, on the other hand, has rebuilt Poland's infrastructure, and many a UK mining town's as well.
Ever been to Methyr Tyddfyl? (I don't think Johnson could spell it right) EU money - the Brit government would never have coughed up.

I grew up pre- EU, and large sections of our inner cities were a stinking ******** then.
It wasn't our glorious government on it's own that regenerated them.

and so far I'm batting 1000%


not a monster, more like a dinosaur.... let's say a brontosaurus, slow and cumbersome and placid with no natural predators... an unable to respond to a new reality (like a comet strike)

I was hoping that brexit would inspire the EU to be more flexible (coming up with a new kind of status for the UK and maybe start paring back to essential functions) but it's done the opposite, it won't end this year or next but it's hard to see it thriving...

in the past it's done massive good but in its current form it only does passive good, none of the initiatives for for further integration (the only initiatives it's capable of anymore) actually serve the interests of people beyond those making a living directly from the trough... that's not a recipe that's viable over the long term

Which is why it would be great for Britain to get out now so that we are more prepared when it,inevitably, colapses.

"Britain is NOT 'first in line' for a post-Brexit U.S. trade deal, White House warns Boris Johnson"

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7436699/Britain-not-line-post-Brexit-U-S-trade-deal-White-House-says.html

It would be stupid of them to go for an election now. They've got Boris in a position where he's stumbling badly, and it effectively gives the Tories a choice - either Boris goes or nothing changes because he hasn't got the votes. Meanwhile, he's making an absolute mess of things by not being prepared, and let's not pretend otherwise - Corbyn will eat him in Parliament if he doesn't start taking his preparation seriously.

Remember how Major was in trouble with the Maastricht rebels, and how it led to the Blair landslide? The same could easily happen here.

If I were Johnson right now, I'd be talking to the MP's that I kicked out and see if they could be persuaded into voting for May's deal. I'd then go to the ERG and do the same, knowing that at least some Labour MP's would vote for it. Brexit would be delivered, and then I'd be using the period post-Brexit to do some major in-depth polling to find out if there's any support for a harder form of Brexit, or if people would accept remaining in the Customs Union with freedom of movement. It would buy some time, and I'd be able to focus on domestic politics.


Too early for that from the EU's perspective - better to hope that Brexit is a disaster, and that can be a central condition of rejoining. I'd also say that it's guaranteed that Poland and the other EU-13 countries will demand more money from the UK if they try to rejoin.

What would be the consequences of remaining after all? I was looking for scenarios and couldn't find much beyond a couple of articles saying that maybe people should think about that, most remainers seem to assume that things would go back to the way they were but I'm not seeing it.

The radical integrationist faction within the EU (including Juncker and Leyen) seem to have no theoretical upper limits to integration (no matter the damage done to individual countries) and clearly want the EU to have a single currency and no internal borders and they're not going to give up on that. A remaining UK will be flat on its back and have no bargaining position whatsoever... why isn't anyone discussing what that might mean?

Like I say, I don't think that the British elite will allow Brexit to happen and I think the ultimate costs of remaining will be higher than leaving but that won't affect the elite too much so they don't care.

If they revoke article 50 before it's done as far as I know EU cannot make any demands as UK would never oficially leave but if they leave and want to come back it's fair game. What's more I don't see why it shouldn't.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/remaining-in-the-eu-would-come-at-a-big-price-for-britain/

"EU's budget chief Guenther Oettinger made it clear that Britain would lose this £5.6bn rebate "

"Guy Verhofstadt has said that we would lose various opt-outs negotiated over decades"

I can understand why remainers don't want to discuss this, but.... maybe people should?

Not only that...no veto right anymore either.

Britain shot all it's guaranteed exceptions down the moment they decided to leave. Everything past british govs worked so hard for to assure. The EU had bend backwards to accomodate the precious Brits, the rebate had been only one part of the extra cuddling.

All gone now! So or so...

To be fair I wasn't aware of this. But to be honest half of that post is a bit moany. Like the fact that companies will have to adhere to EU law- that won't change, that would stay exactly the same. As to the image - I don't think it can get any worse. Simply because UK government seems awfully incompetent