Brexit 2019 and Poland

Interesting take on Brexit and Ireland...

short verstion: Reunification is impossible because the south cannot hope to replace the economic transfers to NI that the UK currently pays

(transfers: roughly this is domestic economic aide, popular in receiving regions and hated by richer regions, in the UK they go from Southern England to... everywhere else. In Italy they would go from North to South, in Poland from West to East, in Spain from North(east) and Madrid to the rest) the lack of economic transfers in the euro area is one factor that condemns southern service economies to permanent austerity).

politico.eu/article/unification-not-no-deal-brexit-will-destroy-ireland/

She was not put in charge - she was elected. twice.

If those MPs stood in 2017 for SNP, Libdems or Welsh they were standing for a second referendum

If they stood for Labour they were standing for a customs union

If they stood for Conservatives they were standing for a deal based on Mays red lines

So yes at the moment I do think it's fair to say they represent their constituents.

There were many decades of economic transfers from the north of the EU to the south - have you any idea what's Spain, southern Italy and Portugal look like in the 70s and 80s ? Those transfers are now made to Eastern Europe instead

Yes, but once by her party and once in an election.

I didn't vote for her btw.

It's one that everybody in Ireland already understands. However, there's no question of reunification at this time. No Irish government would dream of holding a border poll and that's the only way it can happen - and as I've said before, there would be a very long public debate first, about what uniting with NI would mean because we all know that it's not simply a question of them joining the Republic ; it's the creation of a new Ireland, a new state which would have to accommodate the Unionist minority and that's a big problem. Would we really want to see a united Ireland where Orangemen would have a perfect right to march down O'Connell St on the 12th July banging their drums and waving King Billy aloft............

Oh sorry Milo - I thought because of your hatred for Corbyn you must have voted Tory.

I do hate him, but I just couldn't bring myself to vote for TM :-)

Well, the labour party has just gone all in for open borders, this means either the end of the labour party or the end of the UK as anything but a place on the map... there's no way to implement this policy and still have a country in any meaningful sense of the word...

labourlist.org/2019/09/labour-conference-approves-motion-to-extend-free-movement/

Freedom of movement is not "open borders."
If people are EU citizens then they can migrate where they wish. And long may that continue.
If you have Polish citizenship, then you too qualify.
What's wrong with that?

"Open borders" are open to every a-hole who can say, "asylum". If he is mute, he can write it. If he is illiterate, there is a Soros-funded NGO useful idiot nearby to do it for him - that "engineer" who can't read, write or do anything other than pray to Allah five times a day as his only skill.

they're expanding it way beyond the EU.... if the proposal isn't 'open borders' then what is it?

The end of The Labour Party.......The British electorate will not vote for them in the upcoming General Election.


It is if you are in The EU and very soon, we won't be..... :-)

A disgraceful performance by Boris Johnson in parliament last night, using aggressive decisive language that he has obviously learnt from Ziobro and his gang,
All good of course - because his arrogance will surely cost him votes - now that people can see that he is not "bumbling Boris", but is actually supercilious and nasty.

Very badly, but that has to do with the UK government's extremely controversial austerity program to reduce the budget deficit and the role of the welfare state. Not the fault of the EU. It has affected all of the services you mentioned in post 1827. A purely political decision, as all of a sudden Boris is planning to put back the 20,000 police officers removed since 2010, and increase public spending. Are we supposed to be grateful that he is now offering to give back what his government removed in the first place, and where is the money coming from?

Plus agree with cms neuf regarding May. No conspiracy theory there, she was voted best woman for the job at the time.

aka 'neoliberalism' which more and more people are more and more fed up with, neoliberalism is also behind the new daft labour migration proposals which are tantamount to open borders....


by people who wanted her to fail....

The new proposals are not open borders. Have you read the Proposal. It allows for a reasonable immigration procedure, where families can be reunited, the removal of detention centres, illegal under The Convention of Human Rights. the end of the hostile environment, but still keeps in place the visa and passport system plus screening for undesirable aliens.

Some of the Labour delegates are not the brightest light in the showroom, and this could have been worded better, but it's just the antithesis of the right wing element that has taken hold under successive Tory governments. I remember the disdain and obstruction from the Home Office when I first took my Polish wife to the UK, and I often had to tell the customs officers to get fukked because they didn't apply the law, and thought they could question my wife with impunity, even when I brandished her passport, which had my surname on it.

I soon disabused them of their wrongful position. Bunch of racist kunts.

Not quite.
But they also propose to give FULL voting right to all foreign UK residents.

Absolutely correct - if they pay into the system and reside in the UK, why not? Millions of "Poles" and others have never set foot in their antecedents' countries of origin, but still get the Polish vote.

Now - which would you say is the fairer and more logical?

I think they are both unfair.
You would need to set a length of residence limit to get full voting rights.
I reckon 10 years in full employment is about right.

Really? It's 5 years at the moment. Would you scrap that and extend to 10 years?

Yes.
I don't think you have paid in enough over 5 years.

Just a little over a month away until Halloween:)

Why can't liberals except the results of any election that's not in their favor?

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It wasn't an election. It was a referendum. First of all, we were lied to, secondly, it was three years ago and circumstances change

Thirdly, the only reason the right wont allow a confirmatory vote is because they know the population has now swung to staying in the EU.

Sorry Joker - but the truth is that we Brits are not as gullible as you people across the pond are, when your right wing politicans babble about "Let's stop the elite". In the UK Johnson and the other Eton boys ARE the elite, and it's all one giant con trick, which people have got wise to. Most of the right wing Tory supporters are the good old working classes, who somewhat idiotically admire "their social betters"

Things are going quite well, and Johnson has been stopped in his tracks. Thank you for your concern though. We deffo wont be leaving anything on Halloween, or anytime soon.

It looks fortunately like they'll have no choice in the matter at all...

Just as all nations are lied to in every election,and we were lied to by both sides..So what's new?


Nah, I think it has swung the other way.
People are fed up with parliament ignoring the voice of the electorate and they have seen how nasty and intransigent the EU are.
We don't want to be members of a club that treats it's members like scum.


Sorry to disappoint you Doug, but my Halloween party is still on...... :-)

Given how much of the establishment is opposed to brexit, the fact that they haven't forced through a rerun makes me think they don't think they have the votes.... but given how opposed they are to democracy.... maybe they're planning on the mexican option (rigging it to get the result they want...)

Whoever wins in the end, it will be by devious means.
I still think we will leave on October 31st, one way or another.
British democracy depends on it.
If we don't then this country is f##ked.......

Perhaps, a Halloween surprise? Thats the day that most troublemakers come out.......

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Some people dont' care about democracy beyond the 'correct' side winning... Western countries have been steadily moving away from democracy for... some time now. The irony is that at this point, impoverished and horribly corrupt Ukraine is doing better at democracy than the US or UK?

How did that happen?

That is rich - coming from an American brought up in a country that is governed by a leader with executive powers. In Europe we would call that a dictatorship, and Margaret Thatcher got the sack for thinking she could copy that model.

A referendum is meant as a guide - and is not legally binding. Get over it.

Checks and balances are embedded throughout the US system... no US president can unilaterally create a Supreme Court or okay a referendum of Texan independence... and, if you hadn't noticed I'm criticizing the US too.

The gold standard of democracy is a result that's unpopular with the government and power establishment being honored.

In the US: Trump won and the democratic establishment went crazy (pvssy hats, 'resistance', fairytales about Russian collusion etc) a disgraceful display.

In the UK: Brexit won and the power establishment has done everything possible to prevent it...

In the Ukraine, an extremely inexperienced opposition candidate won and the transfer of power happened smoothly..

Ukraine 1, US 0, UK 0....