Brexit 2019 and Poland

As I've told you a billion times before.... don't exaggerate! It doesn't 'trap' the British people especially since the UK doesn't belong to Schengen. Perhaps the EU would decide to 'punish' Brits inside the EU (actually a good reason to leave - why should the EU be that powerful).

Alternately some countries might want to.... shed some of their British residents (generally bad at integrating to other societies) but why would they do that if Brits bring value with them?

I think he means the right to live anywhere in the EU whenever you please. That is gone. And young people are angry about it. And from what I read Brits living in Europe are not too happy about the hassle either.

To be honest, I'm not sure if that model is sustainable in the long term. The EU has embraced neoliberal economics which turns countries into winners and losers and freedom of movement is just going to exacerbate that (and the countries that can't keep enough citizens at home will then be further punished econommically).

It's a nice idea, but in practice there are very heavy costs that no one wants to address....

The secret in the context of freedom of movement is in the word "freedom" Maf. I know that Republicans have a problem with that concept, blaming all their ills on immigrants, when isn't it clear that the opposite is true?

If you were suggesting that in this global village, where people can just hop on a plane, and go and live in a foreign European country, that such brazen boldness should be limited to the jet set - then I would say that you are living in the past. A past that most Europeans have absolutely no intention,ever, of revisiting.

The UK will find itself left behind economically when it cannot fill its' skill quotas. But at least they will have kept johnny foreigner out.

PS. Why are you always babbling on about "Brits who don't assimilate..."? So you don't like some of them? I don't like my Russian student - but that doesn't mean all Russians are ignoramuses.

I'm not a republican, so... I'm not sure how relevant that is, but whatever....


So you want open borders? How many more tens of millions of people can be crammed into England? I bet you could lure 100 million or so Indians there relatively easily (and at least 50 million Chinese?)

Even within the EU (in its current incarnation) there is zero evidence that freedom of movement actually helps poorer countries, exporting unemployment (as Poland did in 2004) is a short term solution that can't be sustained forever and has costs in the receiving countries as well.

Freedom of movement was enacted in a particular place and time and circumstances have radically changed and it's not clear how much longer it will be viable.

I don't agree with anything you have said. I have said many times that I am in favour of the status quo - immigration into the UK is at manageable levels - or would have been, if the Tories hadn't imposed 9 years of austerity.

Rates of borrowing are at an all time low, and in actual fact in some European countries are in negative territory, so now would be the time to embark on a wave of investment. It's called the Labour Party - just a pity that they can't get their act together and have a more moderate manifesto.

And yes, 70 percent of Britons want to keep freedom of movement in some form. But you know better Maf? Immigration has raised GDP in Britain - and touching though your concern for your second home (Poland) is, I don't share it. All I ever received from the Polish state were bullying audits and bureaucratic hassle, so your comments as to "winners and losers" cut no ice with me I'm afraid.

And in which economic system were there not winners and losers?

That's a lie the globalists use in the US to justify the H-1B and F-1B visas. Why? Because the 1% who own 50% want cheap and obedient foreigners to help them own 60%. To justify their greed, they always talk about "growth" and the GDP, as if zero growth in the GDP and zero growth in population were the sentence of death.

There is no lack of domestic talent. There is lack of domestic talent willing to work for five bucks an hour. Hence, open borders to replace the unwilling.

10 bucks an hour (it's the minimum wage) I know Republicans have a problem with minimum wage - but we don't.


Your arguments as to restrictive practice and protectionism are consistently those akin to a Republican voter - so you are for all intent and purpose a Republican in such sense, are you not?

Yes, you do. The official minimum wage is one thing. What the illegals are paid under the table is another and a fraction of the official rate. On top of that untaxed. Which means that the honest locals have to carry two burdens - their own and the illegal, off-the-books tax cheats.

Then shouldn't you have the bief with the government and the employers instead as they allow the law to be broken?

The black market in the UK has shrunk a great deal, largely due to anti- money laundering. It's hard now to get paid without having a bank account - which is relatively hard to set up.

Also this conservative government have been busy, killing people, who didn't qualify, or had social benefits delayed or reduced, through austerity measures - and immigrants do not qualify for any of this social pay-out largesse, so I wouldn't have thought that European migrants are flocking to the UK any more in supposedly alarming numbers.

But hey ho - why don't you ask Maf and Miloslaw for the word. They seem to think that johnny is a constant danger - which would be amusing, but for the hypocrisy, they being in differing ways sons of immigration themselves.

And I do. The three - the government, the employers, and the illegals - are the co-conspirators against the legal and honest citizens, aided and abetted by the American fascists in the US and their big government loving equivalents in the UK and everywhere else.

The illegals are being used- they are paid less and don't have access to any safety net while faicing deportation any time. Somehow one doesn't hear of illegals making it big. Modest living is the most they can do. While others take the benefit.

Here is my chance to correct your English even if my post is "less than perfect". "Used" is an argument, not the objective truth. Only prisoners and slaves can be "used". The illegals enter into an illegal employment contract voluntarily. They are free to stop being used every single second, pack up and go back to the sh*it hole they came from.


...just like the illegal drug buyers don't have access to the small case courts in the event they get sold diluted stuff.

Besides, the US deports only 90-year-old NAZIs. We can hardly deport even convicted MS-13 murderers.
Did you know that only 3% of the illegal scum show up for the hearings that were scheduled before their release two years earlier from the ICE custody?

Hey, Chemikiem, how am I doing? Are my posts clear and easy to understand?

You are really desperate in trying to get her attention. In fact, you are desperate in trying to get anyone's attention!

Yes. I got yours, so it works. Now what?
BTW, this is almost funny. My post consists of two distinct parts. The main body and a throwaway remark. Strangely, it's the throwaway remark that caught your attention.

Did you skip over the main body or did you find it logical and compelling enough to leave it without a comment?

Chemikiem is my English idol and her opinion is very important to me. Hence, my questions to her.

Neoliberalism doesn't invest in infrastructure... only in banking (making money by manipulating money)


And it will surely continue in some form, just not the present one.


See? That's what freedom of movement brings, people who view countries as a vehicle for making a living (while holding them in contempt). Who wants to continue that?

That's the US immigrants - minus one.

If you want to know the truth, these days I skip almost every one of your post except for the short ones or those of special interest for me and this, for example, includes grammar, but omitting ones containing your repetitive and unappealing opinions on the Polish language. But you are not the only one whose posts' content I skip over. Other posters of this type are: Przelotnyptak1, Dougpol1, Ironside, Lenka, Crow, Kaprys, to name just a few. Typically, I would read an entire post written by Chemikiem, Mafketis, Johnny Reb, Pawian, TheOther, Bratwurst Boy, Atch, Rozumiemnic or Delph. Generally, I am more likely to read a post which is shorter than read one which is longer. The posters mentioned above have a clear and precise style of writing and the contents is usually inspiring for thought. Your writing style is not bad, but the problem with you is that you rant ad nauseam on the same things over and over again, so I know precisely what I can expect of your posts (Ironside is similarly boring as you). What is more, you are a highly cynical man, and being cynical occasionally is interesting, but being cynical all the time is boring. Thus, I tyypically only browse your posts, but may occasionaly pick up a point on which I may venture a comment.

There's the larger issue of non-EU migration and EU migration policy is hopelessly broken and there is no slightest sign that any remedy is in sight.


Not equally, in fact very unequally, and those hurt the most by unrealistic competition are often despised by their presumably more immunecountrymen (like you).

How would you like to compete as an English teacher with 10,000 Indians in the same city?

I couldn't agree with you more. I did notice that less is more and that short sentences are better.
As far as my cynicism, it's a result of knowing too much. That is why all politicians like the young and women. It's easier to bullsh*it them than the cynics. And that is why I will never vote again.

I do have to give you credit for your post above - as critical of me as it was. I will try to keep my posts more Z friendly in the future.

In your opinion. That's all it is. As to EU immigration in Britain, you are arguing that EU migrants have taken British jobs, or lowered wages for British workers?

If I wasn't making a living at what I do, then I would retrain and do something else. In the same way, it's being economical with the truth to say a UK plumber can't compete with the Pole. The difference is that the UK plumber wont work weekends - when the pipe decides to burst, or the lorry driver wont move his rig on a Sunday.

Like a boxer, it all depends on how hungry you are.

An opinion that comes from following the news... what's not broken about thousands of people squatting in camps in France trying to illegally enter Britain? Or what's not broken about asylum seekers being turned down and then trying their luck in France or some other country?

There's no way to look at the situation and not realize it's broken.


And what would you live on in the meantime? And who's going to pay for your retraining (under austerity)?


That's the whole neoliberal problem, it wants a (literally) hungry population scrambling from one short term part time garbage contract to the other.... which is not sustainable.

The good news is that there are so few to keep up with. The bad news is that there so few to keep up with.

Like a dysfunctional family that gets together way too often - minus incest. Or a group of survival show actors after the taping is over.

We were talking about immigration (legal) into the UK. You said that freedom of movement isn't sustainable (because you've been reading those right wing papers again..)

I'm saying that freedom of movement is desirable, otherwise Brits wont be free to settle or work where their desire or skills take them, and our NHS will suffer through lack of trained staff.

Not that this affects you in the slightest. Carry on with your narrow view of the world if you like - but it sounds as if you are lifting your views straight from the Tory hymn sheet.


Again Maf - we don't understand each other.
The British worker doesn't want to work on a Sunday on burst pipes - or will charge a disproportional rate to so do. It is HE who is not hungry; I was referring to the Brit worker, not his Polish immigrant counterpart. The market dictates prices, but some will try to take advantage of circumstances.

I have no sympathy with those workmen who overcharge. Non at all.


.......Is that the twat poster known as Ziemowit can easily put me on ignore, and concentrate on staining his PF "files".

Did you know that in Japan, a country with virtually no immigration, they are closing two hospitals a week because Japan is unable to train its doctors and nurses?

I think you should write to their Ministry of something and enlighten them about the benefits if importing all the Indians who are willing to come. As well as their extended families.

Spain and Italy and Greece hemorraghing young people who can't find jobs because of austerity is not a sustainable model, an EU based on winner countries (Germany a few others) and losers (South) is not sustainable.


Why should the NHS be able to poach medical staff that other countries have spent large amounts of money educating? Train your own damm doctors and nurses!

My idea that freedom of movement in the EU wasn't sustainable in the long term was kind of a throwaway statement but the more I think about it....


I understood, you want your fellow countrymen to go hungry so that you can get stuff cheaper. You're a classic neoliberal that Thatcher would be proud of.

Dear oh dear. Look Maf, millions of people couldn't care less about money - otherwise why would they be voting to actually be poorer under Brexit? A child can deduce that the UK will not be able to trade with the rest of the world at the same economy of scale as the EU, and that the US has not been, and will never be, our main trading partner.

It's all about career politicians playing politics with people's lives - and this ain't over until the fat lady sings.
Somehow - I just cannot believe that the British people will be stupid enough to give Johnson a majority to deal out a hard Brexit.


Lol. You mean that people should not have the motivation to update their skills, but should be somehow restricted to their own geographical region? So when are you going back to the States then maf?

It wasn't fair for the US to educate you, just for you to take your considerable intellect and offer your services to the Polish education system? Do you wish to abdicate your right to self-determination?

Though not. (PS: personal attack deffo not intended )

No plans, why would I?


My particular skill set was not in extreme demand in the US and while I love my country it's to our mutual benefit that I don't live there.

I have no problem with individually motivated migration (some level is always present). I have a problem with engineer mass migration used to shove the citizenry of the receiving country into a precariat. Or to avoid educating the citizenry in needed skills.

Again if the UK wants more doctors it can educate them (same goes for Poland though here the problem is paying them).

Doctors are not a highly sought after profession in the UK any more.
Biotech/drug industry pays far more - for less personal sacrifice. No bursaries for nurses, plus poor starting pay.
Hence EU health workers being of paramount importance to the NHS.