Brexit 2019 and Poland

That, Lenka, is a pretty good summary of the situation.

Plus of course proven illegal funding in the referendum and the usual 'young in, old out' demographic change in the last 3 years.

If the second try goes the way the first one did, are you going to demand the third?

Exactly. They know the electorate would vote remain. Every other EU nation holds confirmatory votes on such huge matters - but the "democratic" Brits want to cut their own throats. But let the British stew Lenka. If they are really so dumb.let them have their pyrrhic victory.

All of us will be poorer as a result, especially Britain.One reason Dolno and Miloslaw and some other EU nationals back leave is because it doesn't affect them - they are the hypocritical dual nationals, brainwashed by the likes of Gove and Patel, who would deny free movement to others, and don't wish to consider the well being of the nations at large with their xenophobic personalist ideology of "My daddy had a fisheries business" and "My daddy was an Asian immigrant who had nothing".

My daughter, as a UK dual national, enjoys free movement, doesn't shovel white powder up her nose, doesn't smirk like that biatch Patel, and by definition is a whole lot brighter than either, as she would also be voting remain - no hypocrisy there!

I'm not so certain, I think if they really thought that they'd have scheduled a second vote a long time ago.

Parliament didn't vote for a second referendum when offered an advisory vote on the subject Maf.....

I rest my case which is based on the idea that almost the entire British political establishment (no matter what they say) does not want Brexit to happen. That's the simplest hypothesis to draw from watching their behavior and I've yet to see anything that disproves it (so far).

If BJ actually takes real steps to implement Brexit I'll believe he wants it to happen.

But part of the straightjacket nature of the EU (what it has become not what it once was) is that governments are increasingly unable to deal with election results when they go against policy decisions that have already been made.

I think the next French elections in March should be veeerrrrryyyy interesting. All the info I can find suggests a massive amount of anger among the electorate so it will be interesting to see where they direct that anger. Macron's recent 'non' to enlargement is clearly a sop to national sentiment... will it be enough?

We all know that Johnson is a terrible liar and it doesn't seem to matter one jot - but even he couldn't lie about all this "Give us back our sovereignty" bull, and then fail to implement his plans, so I think your theory is very left field..........or actually....just plain nuts:) :)

PS: The tories would actually have the power to go for a No deal Brexit end of next year, but I don't think they would go to that radical extreme. Though I wish they would, just to implode.

It's called the Weakness Game.... I did everything I could! I gave it my best shot! I just wasn't able to overcome the opposition. I'll never stop working for Brexit....but in the meantime....

Just not true , for the record I DO NOT BACK BREXIT, my family has too much blood spilled on the ground not to support a united Europe.

Brexit is bad and maybe the idiots who voted for it should get their wish and suffer the pain , it will come with a huge price tag that will only harm everyone.

This is why it is pointless debating this with people like you.
We already voted.
Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
Implement that vote and then you can do what you like!
That is what we call democracy.
Not sure that you fully understand or believe in that.

Yes.


The look on Johnson's face the day the 'result' came in is priceless.

Yeah, after the British election that is the next big one.
The French are not happy with Macron.......

Immigration is a "huge matter". Remind me: when did your rulers let you vote in THAT referendum - even once?

Oh, they didn't? Shocking!

Fair enough. Apologies for the unwarranted slur.

Johnson is starting to unravel. A lot of people are finally starting to get his number (through his behaviour as regards the terrorist victims) and realise what an unpleasant individual he actually is. How that translates of course in votes is probably negligible.

The UK and Poland - united with thoroughly disreputable governments.

So you're all in on "Corybn". Wanna buy a T-Shirt?

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No. Don't like Corbyn either. He sets a better example though.

There'll be some nasty 'campaigning' now the Tories' lead in the polls is reducing.


He's at least painfully honest. The election should in any case be about the country (and the parties' manifestos) rather than personality.

So Johnson refuses to face the BBC in interview.
He would have to face Putin but he wont face Neill.
Quite funny if he wasn't so ridiculous and weak.

What effect (if any) will French unrest have on the British election?

Macron was supposed to put the populist genie back in the bottle but instead has seen more than average levels of unrest. If the creators of the EU aren't happy with their very pro-EU leader then what does that say for the EU?

Zilch. Only the British and their idiotic working class subservient to their racist Middle England "masters" hate the EU.
You really shouldn't let your personal prejudices get in the way of the truth.
Which is - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That "face" is why.
Would you like me to give you a quick lesson on the proper use of "to face"?

The situations in lots of EU countries suggest that all is not well....France is just the most... vocal and visual about it, why ignore that and pretend that everything is great about the EU?


Class hatred on full view... why is that supposed to be less offensive than "racism"?

They are complaining about the retirement age being raised. Nothing to do with the European Union - sorry to disabuse you. I admire the French by the way. They don't take any old nonsense, never have, and the Poles could learn something from them.


Nonsense. I have a dislike of idiots ruining life for the proletariat.

Do you really believe that Doug?
I think that the old British class system is dead now.
Thatcher, much as you no doubt loathe her, sorted that out.


Why indeed.



This is true.
But The Poles have nothing to learn from The French.
Poles are much better at achieving changes than they are.

They protest against the cutting of lotsa retirement privileges...Macron wants to modernize the retirement system...to cut down these privileges...for example why is it necessary that engine driver can retire with 50 (50!!!) whereas other plebs has to work till 64? Costs are especially exploding for french pensionaires, who can live like fat cats lying under palmtrees paid by the french worker...

He wants to streamline the system, back down from more than 42 different pension schemes, that's madness!

Knowing Macron (at least from afar) 'streamline' is probably neoliberal code for 'decimate'. The press just mostly doesn't report why people strike anymore and/or reports it in extremely pro-government ways. I remember the Ryanair strikes a year or so ago were reported in a way that would make most readers side with the company. It took me a long time to find out the actual issues they were striking over at which point I completely sided with them. But that information was mostly withheld from most accounts.

I was talking to a French colleague the other day (who hates Macron). I asked how angry the French public is at the government and she said "very" and added that she's starting to be afraid at what will happen.... and then we were interrupted.

Sure they are....doesn't mean it's wrong or not necessary!

French and german (and most other western populations) are aging dramatically, meaning a steadily decreasing workforce has to stem the support for a steadily increasing group of retirees and pensionaires.

It's not fair and not even feasible in the long run anymore!

What Macron tries to do isn't neoliberal but showing "tough love"...

I'd like to see what the actual content of the reforms is (rather than massaged data trying to make the protestors look bad).

I imagine it's like the UK 'reform' which was an excuse to massively cut benefits.... (skip down to the UK example)

theguardian.com/world/2019/may/15/cash-credits-and-crisis-life-in-the-new-european-precariat

Agreed....

But when people paralyze the whole country just for fear of changes and loss of privileges there is not much hope for pragmatic reasoning, I think....


I fear the loss of many benefits is necessary to assure that the evergrowing group of beneficiaries has still some support left to survive...

The demographics don't allow for much more...the other solution would be much much much more immigration of young workforce from all over the world. And you know what Brits (and others) think of that! That's where the Brexiters got their votes from...the wish to close the borders against such immigration.

So...british Brexiters and french protestors are in the same boat....they don't want the necessary changes...but without a viable solution...