Coronavirus in Poland

Those whipping them up with deliberate lies are anti-science (or pretend to be for their act and invariable crowdfunding appeals) and those 'doing their own research' on the internet, especially youtube and similar are yes, idiots.

At Saturday's rally people were pretending vaccines were linked to 5G!!!


Do they differ so radically from normal vaccines that someone should?


When the NHS, the BMA and the RCNiM all recommend vaccination, we can always ask ourselves whether we trust those bodies' recommendations or not..

This is interesting:


bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-57928647

This photo was taken today in Manchester. I don't want to see this in Poland.

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Everything "works". If you take every other breath, it "works". If you never leave your basement, it "works". If you never go to work, it "works". If you never cough, spit or say a word, it "works". When we are all dead and buried, it "works". Somehow, masks work but nobody has the numbers how well. Just trust that they work, say the obedient mask zombies.

Looks like he's misunderstood completely.

Very telling, really...

@jon357

But are those types of folks representative of the majority. Not doubt there are conspiracy lovers and disinformationists and even some whackos who are against the covid vaccine, but are they representative of the majority? It's hard to gauge accurately, but if I'm to go off a lot of what I hear and the anecdotal evidence I have the majority who don't want the vaccine are doing it for reasons that rational: they aren't comfortable with the unknowns of the vaccine.

These vaccines are mostly messenger RNA-based vaccines; Johnson and Johnson isn't mRNA but a carrier type of vaccine. This is new technology--it puts a genetic code in cells that tell the nucleosides (subunits of nucleic acids that control what a cell is going to be) what to do. I am unaware of any vaccine that is based off this science that has either a wide distribution or timeframe of usage that allows us to gauge the long-term effects of this new technology. It may end up being a very good thing, but right now it's too hard to tell.

This vaccine was rushed, because this virus (which is real and harmful to some) has been politicized, IMO. It needs more research and testing, IMO.


I agree. My confidence in bureaucracies alone isn't all that inspired.

The covid ruling mob is confusing the hell out of me. Get vaccinated! they yell. I get vaccinated. Good boy, but wear that mask anyway! Why? It's science, so shut up and do as we tell you! Do you have any test data? Neeext!

Sadly, they have an unprecedented opportunity to disseminate their crank ideas to the public.


The overwhelming majority are not vaccine sceptical.


In that case, you will be pleased that the above organisations aren't especially bureaucratic.

I'd argue that those who try to broad brush all skeptics of the covid vaccine as whackos are just as crank and have the same unprecedented opportunity to disseminate their ideas to the public as the anti-vaxxer whackos. They are the same, just different angles, IMO.


I was talking about the majority of those who are skeptical of the vaccine.


Jon, they are government agencies, right--they are, by definition, bureaucracies. No way around it. Doesn't mean they aren't any good and don't do good work, but the nature of bureaucracies demand a healthy level of scrutiny.

"masks are a visual prop to drive fear and prolong 'pandemic'

So what's wrong with that statement, again?

It's a fact that dust masks are the only visible sign of a "deadly pandemic" and that's their main purpose to perpetuate it and to keep people disciplined when marching towards now famous new normality as stated by PM Justin Trudeau. Nota bene, he probably spits in his beard now for being so honest about it. Said too much too soon, a Freudian slip perhaps.

Switch off BBC news and use your double-digit IQ and start thinking by yourself.

Does anyone broad-brush? Or simply form opinions on a movement based on the actual phenomena being currently observed.


One is a group of public organisations (though not a government 'agency'), the other two are independent. They aren't bureaucracies, however they are all much scrutinised.


You're also missing the point. It is about the currently observable behaviour of the organised anti-vax/covidiot movement; look more closely at the picture.

Well, there are folks who form an opinion based off of information that is but a sample slice of the entire pie and transpose that sample slice onto everyone who is a part of the pie. So, yes, people broad brush, and they broad brush all things covid-related. You don't think that goes on?

I stand corrected about the government agencies, but I'd be willing to bet they are still bureaucracies. P&G isn't a government agency, but it sure as hell is a bureaucracy. Anyhow, it's good they are much scrutinized.

One can only form reliable opinions based on that which is observed.


I'd be surprised if the BMA and RCNiM have anything like enough employees to be considered that. Their reputations aren't based on their admin structures.

Reliable opinions, I'd agree with that for the most part. The question concerning our discussion, though, is whether or not that which is being observed is a reliable sample size. I've become cynical of this area--I don't believe those who control the dissemination of information do so with solicitude but for ideological gain and that twitterdom isn't the pulse of the everyday citizen.


I'll take your word for it, because I know nothing about these orgs--hell, it's the first time I've even heard of them..hahaha!

A sample size of a tiny group (since vaccine take up is good in Poland and the UK). The group is that you want a "sample of" is key, were you for some reason trying to make an assessment, which of course we are not.

Meanwhile, as said already, we have to deal with what we observe, whether on "twitterdom", through crime reports about attacked clinics or shouted through a megaphone in front of the National Gallery with a giant screen and David Icke and others telling us all why they think vaccines and lizard people are bad, and hanging Doctors is good (they sadly said all this and currently sending death threats to journalists who called them out on it).

We've heard from Paw about an attack by them on a clinic near Warsaw. Now the silent majority of that already small group of vaccine sceptics may remain as silent as they choose; it's the behaviour of that "sample size" that is the issue under discussion.

I concede those examples of people who are acting badly are indeed acting badly. My problem is when you (the general "you") transpose those folks onto the rest who aren't acting badly yet are skeptical of the vaccine.

How have you determined vaccine skeptics are a small group? In America, I believe only 50-60% of the population has been vaccinated, that means about 150 million people haven't--you'd think a good number who haven't are skeptical, yet there is no widespread whackoism. I've seen a greater sample size of rational reasons for skepticism than whacko reasons. For example, my lovely wife works in a large healthcare network, she received some internal info about numbers of employees who have been fully vaccinated; according to the info she received from her employer less than 33% of physicians within their large network has been vaccinated. Sure, some physicians are whacko, but 67%?

My whole point is there seems to be a general attitude, that has been represented on PF, that anti-vaxxers are simply whackos. I don't see this whackoism as that widespread, but this belief that anti-vaxxers are whackos makes it hard to have a sober rational conversation about the decision to get or not get the vax.

Vaccine take up is higher here. Much higher generally, covid and all vaccines.

About doctors and the Covid jab, by Jan this year, 75% of those polled had already been vaccinated here.
bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n190


The ones who publicly advocate for that very often are exactly that. Or dangerous as we've seen in Grodzisk and at the demonstrations in London.

OK, but how does that prove vax skeptics are a small group?


Don't you find that article a little troubling? Of the 41,000 surveyed, only 12.6% responded. Of those 12.6% of respondents, 75% have received at least one dose of the vax. In other words, 9.4% of those surveyed responded that they have received at least one dose of vax. I'd like to know why the 87.4% of non-respondents didn't reply. I wouldn't use that poll as a true marker.

Vaccine take up is high here.

Why would you think anti-vaxxers are anything other than a small group given that fact?


OK, but how does anything 'prove' or suggest otherwise here, given the high rate of take up for the vaccine in this country?

Debates like this one start with a personal attitude toward the swamp. Normal people, by default, do not trust the government and demand more evidence than they would from any other organization. Sheep do the opposite, become useful idiots way and stay that way past the official "you don't have to point".

In what way are the BMA or the RCNiM supposed to be part of "the government"?

Let's say the goal of vaccinations is surpassed and 85% of the population of Europe gets vaccinated--there's about 750 million euro people, so that'd be about 640 Million people who got vaxxed and 110 million who didn't. That's close to the population of Germany and Poland--a lot of people. Are all 110 million whackos?

My point is that a relative handful of whackos are leading (more probably, affirming) many to believe that 100's of millions (if you include the Americas and other places) of non-vaxxers are whackos.

Who said they were?

We aren't talking about your small percentage in general. We are discussing the attack on the clinic and the death threats in London - and yes, they were carried out by what you call "whackos".

Unfortunately, when violence on the basis of 'beliefs' occurs, there is, as we've seen so often recently, a very fine line between "whackos" and domestic terrorists,


And this is why, as I said right at the start of this discussions, the police and courts will hopefully deal appropriately with the Grodzisk attackers.

Oh yeah, anyone who is attacking clinics and sending death threats are whackos and should be arrested and charged. Thankfully, the number of whackos are small, or it would be civil chaos.

Wednesday for Guilt
Oh it's starting to get nasty now.
Fauci, CNN, White House, Newsom and Cuomo all ratchet up attacks on unvaccinated Americans.
Unvaccinated Americans were the talking point of the day on Monday with a slew of figures slamming those who have chosen not to take the coronavirus jabs, assigning blame to them for America going backwards, likening them to 'Murderers', and suggesting that they are to blame for more deadly variants of the virus emerging.

Next will be the threats of being prohibited to go to your job, schools or the grocery store unless you are a card carrying vaccinated loyalist.

Could we please have just one week prohibiting the words vaccine or Covid before we all go nuts !

Last I heard, virus tend to become less deadly. As to survive better and spread better, I don't know why people are so obsessed with this virus.

It evolves constantly, how come some people think it's possible to eliminate it? We live in a free global world, not a tiny little prison on some far-fetched island with 20 inhabitants. It is bound to spread, mosquitoes and bad driving is far more dangerous. I would hope the fear mongering would just stop, larger amount of fear/stress creates a weaker immune system when it's exhausted!

Why put people in danger? Why?!

Waiting for Wednesday

percent of positive test results: 0.35% of 39,143 tests (fewer tests and the rate is back higher...)

hospitalization: -1 to 308 (bottoming out so there won't be long strings of negative or positive days)

deaths: 3 (2 with comorbidities)

from the previous day*: seven day moving average of daily deaths: 4 no change, lowest number since March 31, 2020...

And yet the government claims that the number of currently infected increased by 96 to reach 153,767 !!!!

If you check here worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/poland/ you see the number hasn't decreased since early June despite the positive test and hospitalization rates plummeting. Compare with other countries at that site where the active cases coincide with other variables more.

Clear falsehood, why is the government lying in this way? Why are no journalists asking about this?

*the source I use is a day behind and I'm too lazy to calculate on my own

Yes, for this we should be thankful.

I just wish that fewer of them had youtube channels and Gofundme pages


Apparently this is a real risk according to those who monitor it.

...caused by empty shelves and lockdowns ordered by the covid terrorists - aka our democratically elected leaders with the power to cause said shortages and lockdowns by signing a one-page executive order.

I have a feeling that's a rhetorical question.


What are your own thoughts on the reason?