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Poland under pressure of EU to accept more asylum seeking refugees



nothanks
9 Sep 2015  #751

Jewish activist trying to guilt trip Poland into taking more refugees. Meanwhile Israel has taken in NO-ONE

Poland Shouldn't Shut Out Refugees

nytimes.com/2015/09/10/opinion/poland-shouldnt-shut-out-refugees.html

Today, 35 years after Solidarity was created and 26 after its victory over Communism, not much remains of that spirit in Poland. Nor should others expect any solidarity from Poles: When in June the European Commission, facing an unprecedented influx of hundreds of thousands of refugees, called on Poland to accept 3,700 of them, the country announced that it "refuses to submit" to European Union quotas, which were intended to be compulsory. As other countries also balked, Brussels had to opt for lower, voluntary and unenforceable quotas.


nothanks
9 Sep 2015  #752

"refugees"








Dougpol1
10 Sep 2015  #753

Poland is taking in Ukrainian refugees. . . .

Sorry - no. That's not true. According to Dziennik (the German owned Polish newspaper) 3000 Ukranians from Donbass appled for asylum in Poland.
3 were granted asylum.

What is less clear is how many Ukrainians are here on extended visas. There were 9,000 on longer than short term (3 month) stays. Most have now returned.

This Ukrainian refugee business is either a myth or hard to substantiate. But in a bureaucratic country like Poland, statistics don't really lie surely?

Poles........contributing nothing to local businesses or the economy

British GDP rose substantially during the waves of EU enlargement. See the CBI figures (who are the authority - NOT Migration Watch and government think tanks).

Ergo - who's to say a countries GDP couldn't rise too by new waves of immigration, who could learn the language in 1/2 years, and contribute (doctors/engineers/etc)?

Paulina
10 Sep 2015  #754

So today I've found out from Polish news that there are 11 refugee centres in Poland.
Currently there are 1500 refugees at those centres, mainly Ukrainians.
There is still room for 500 people.
Poland isn't exactly a big refugee/immigration destination, so there you go...
Of course, some places could be adapted at schools etc., but where will they locate those 11 000 people, if it comes to this - I'm not sure...

Source: I've watched "Open Source" on BBC.

"Outside Source", sorry lol

@Paulina: witam! since you asked me the other day: France has already taken in over 11,000 since 2011 and yet another 24,000+ to come (including 1,000 from Germany within 3 days) so please have the decency not to compare with Poland's ... 50/60 Christian families..... I notice that Spain, very comparable to Poland in population and in economy shall take in around 40-50% more than Poland.

I'm not sure what I asked you and I wasn't comparing anything you mention.
Actually, that's my point - France and Spain aren't comparable to Poland - there are richer countries. They can afford to take many refugees and they were rich and developed enough to take economic migrants, just like other Western countries.

Btw, France and the rest of the West has its refugees and Poland has her own refugees - Ukrainians. There are something like 50-60 000 Ukrainians who were issued special visas by Poland since the Ukraine crisis began so they could work and live here.

Québec to take in 3,650 refugees by December 2015! Québec does not belong to EU and therefore is not forced to.... Québec makes much more efforts than ... Poland ;)

And more than the US, the main "culprit" which has taken less than 2000 refugees from Syria for... 4 years...
So, InPolska, is the US... a selfish country?

Instead of spending EU money to build airports without planes (ex. Radom and soon others), Poland could spend money to help refugees.

Just like other countries in the EU with those "ghost airports". This is the bad side of this EU funding you praise so much - in quite a few cases funds are given for useless infrastructure while they could be used for something... useful. But I guess such logic isn't compatible with mighty brains at Brussels...

There's one advantage to this waste of money - now those "ghost airports" across the EU could be used for housing the refugees... lol

The world sees what countries are generous and what countries are selfish.

The world have seen other things too - what the West was doing for all those years in that region.
Don't forget that the world doesn't comprise only from the West. Whenever Poles (including me) during discussions with Russians were saying that "the world condemns this or that" etc. Russians were laughing and were saying "You mean the West does, not the world".

People in the West are very West-centric. You think the world revolves around you, but it doesn't...
I suspect the world doesn't give a sh1t about what Poland is doing, whether it's "generous" or "selfish", I suspect even most of the refugees don't give a sh1it about it either, because they don't want to go to Poland - they want to go to Western countries.

@Nothanks: what about the 116,000+ Polish refugees taken in by ... Iran during WWII?

According to that guy from Polish-Russian blog I quoted before:

"Iran 'took in" Polish refugees because it was occupied by Great Britain. Those were the families of Polish soldiers who fought for Britain, so the English truly have shown us pity... :D"

(I'm just quoting ;))

So, the families stayed in the refugee camps and Polish men, after they recovered after their "stay" in the Soviet labour camps (gulags) went on to fight alongside the British against the Nazis.

One could say that they paid off their "debt" with blood...

Btw, InPolska, it's not like the Poles stayed in those camps in Iran (in tents) forever.

Iran didn't take in single Polish refugee. It was Soviet Union that resettled them there while occupying northern Iran. Iranian officials were strongly against it. STOP LYING!

Resettled? That must be some kind of euphemism on your part... They walked all the way to Iran from gulags, after they were "kindly" freed...

I don't know about Iranian officials but according to this link Iranian people were "noble, incredibly open and kind" to Polish refugees as stated by one of them:

udskior.gov.pl/70,rocznica,przyjecia,ponad,116,tys,polskich,uchodzcow,przez,Iran,275.html

They'll be kept and supervized by authorities for a certain period of time.

What will be that "certain period of time"?

Don't worry, no refugee would want to stay in Poland any longer than required!

So how long is it required for those "quota refugees" to stay in Poland? Would they be able to travel freely across the EU after that "required time" and live and work in any EU state?

there were 20 million Polish refugees taken in by the West. When the West has taken in 20 million Poles

No, he said that there are 20 million of people of Polish origin living outside of Poland - meaning - in the world, not only in the West lol

Again, West-centric thinking... :)

Poland can take in a few thousands.

And it most probably will, so take a chill pill.

If you don't like it, you just talk to Junker. Whining in PF won't help

Your whining on PF won't help either but you seem to be taking great pleasure in it... :)

@G: and what about the Poles happy to work for western companies? What about the millions of Polish economic emigrants not only to UK but elsewhere in EU?

They are economic emigrants and not refugees. They are working for their living (most of them). Just like a couple of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are working in Poland for their living.

So the EU has come up with a master plan, 160,000 to be spread to the 4 corners of the EU, where are we going to put the other millions ????

That's what I'm wondering about...

The consensus in Poland and across the EU seems to be that refugees in fear of their lives must be helped, but economic migrants should be sent back where they came from.
The problem is how to separate the grain from the chaff? HOW TO SCREEN THEM? Many have no documents and all claim to be refugees. All are bent on reaching much-longed-for Germany and are reluctant to be processed in other countries. Do host countries have an adquate screening apparatus - people speaking their language and aware of the political situation in each country?

And that's another thing I'm wondering about...

Jewish activist trying to guilt trip Poland into taking more refugees. Meanwhile Israel has taken in NO-ONE

I read Haaretz from time to time and it seems Israel is probably not the best place to send asylum seekers...
haaretz.com/opinion/1.663453

Sorry - no. That's not true. According to Dziennik (the German owned Polish newspaper) 3000 Ukranians from Donbass appled for asylum in Poland.
3 were granted asylum.

Link?

Paulina has somebody asked those people whether or not they want to go to Poland? I gather they want to go mainly to Germany, Britain and Scandinavia. That could be a problem.

That's the problem. The Western leaders and Westerners on this forum don't seem to care about this issue...
Will the refugees agree to be registered in Poland? Or will they be registered elsewhere and sent to Poland? Will they have to stay in Poland?

Will they agree to all of this or will we witness scenes like in Hungary or riots like on Lesbos in Greece?

The recent poll in which 80% of Poles say they don't want the invaders in Poland confirms this.

According to the most recent poll I've seen 51% of Poles want Poland to take in refugees.

Polson
10 Sep 2015  #755

Very good post, Paulina ;)

johnny reb
10 Sep 2015  #756

edited

According to the most recent poll I've seen 51% of Poles want Poland to take in refugees.

The ones I have seen over 80% don't want them.

InPolska
10 Sep 2015  #757

@Paulina: 51% of Poles in favor of taking in refugees?????? 'lo". If so, Poland would be among those most favorable to refugees, which I seriously doubt. In Poland it's rather 99% against.

As to me, I'm not "whining", I am just looking forward to seeing Poles being part of EU (other than as mere welfare recipients) and co-habiting with Muslims ;).

spiritus
10 Sep 2015  #758

All are bent on reaching much-longed-for Germany

In my opinion, if they are insisting on only heading for one country then they are migrants. If you are escaping a war torn country then you stay in the first safe country you reach AND you would be happy about it.

The ratio of men to women is ridiculous and again leads me to believe that most of these are migrants.

InPolska
10 Sep 2015  #759

@Spiritus: they want to go first of all to Germany because Germany which shall need 6 million new workers by 2030 has invited them. It seems that Germany already has trouble coping as for instance German authorities yesterday sent 3 busloads of refugees to France (a lot of coverage last night in French medias)..

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #760

"Ergo - who's to say a countries GDP couldn't rise too by new waves of immigration, who could learn the language in 1/2 years, and contribute (doctors/engineers/etc)?"

Do you want to tell us that these people are doctors/engineers ? Or that they will learn Polish and become doctors/engineers in 1/2 years ??

In case of Syrians perhaps ~20% would become valuable addition to the economy, after many years of being here. In case of Somalis or Afghans it like ~2%. GDP don't fall out of the sky, it's a derivative of the workforce's & government/corporate management quality.

Here you have the 1st element...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

If EU needs more workers, just announce it across the world and at least 100 million applications will soon be sent. One could choose the best among them, no need to take parasites.

InPolska
10 Sep 2015  #761

edited
@to the others "picking on me": Yes, my grandfather was a political refugee (in the 1930's) but since the forum is about Poland, my family history as not connected with Poland (at least that part of the family) is not relevant and shall be considered "off topic" by PF's moderators ;) . The topic: what to do with refugees and Poland's hostile attitude towards them...

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #762

"The topic: what to do with refugees and Poland's hostile attitude towards them..."

Nonsense. They just don't want to come here and without Junkers and other EU-nuchs we would have nothing to do with it. "Hostile attitude" is what Junkers and other EUnuchs are creating. Don't you see they don't give a **** about these people ? Someone triggered off this whole crisis and EU-nuchs jumped on it to increase their power ("uh Europe can't cope with it without common policy on this, common policy on that..." and there goes x new "institutions" to implement these "common policies"). That's all. Take off your rainbow glasses and face the cruel world we are living in.

If you care so much about these people, just go and ask them if they want to be dragged by force to Poland. Jesus Christ, they would be better off staying in Turkey but no, take people who don't know a single word in Polish, take them off the desert and watch them walking in snow just because Junkers and his buddies want to secure some "jobs". You people are their useful idiots.

mafketis
10 Sep 2015  #763

what to do with refugees and Poland's hostile attitude towards them...

Why are Polish attitudes in Poland a problem? Since when is uniformity of opinion a good thing?

If you care so much about these people, just go and ask them if they want to be dragged by force to Poland

They care _much_ too much about them to actually pay attention to what they want.

Alternately, they don't care anything about them (far more likely) and are involved in political posturing for status, the ole "¿Quien es mas progresivo?" game.

InPolska
10 Sep 2015  #764

@Maf: answer to your question is easy ;). Poland is a member of EU (+ the no. 1 funds' reciepient + Poland is also involved military (wars + CIA's prisons, for which Poland was condemned by European Court of Justice in Strasbourg) so Poland is also concerned. The 28 member countries are in the huge mess.... Those who refuse EU's rules can feel free to get out of the EU while of course no longer be sponsored. The EU is neither a supermarket nor a restaurant and Poland (and others) need to be aware of that. Nobody has ever forced Poland to join....

"EU: just take it or leave it"!

To conclude, as a member country, Poland has to comply with EU's rules.

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #765

Yawn, as usual no facts just nonsense... which "EU rules" ? The EU rules on this one are as follows: when you find illegals, arrest them and kick out to the country they come from.

InPolska
10 Sep 2015  #766

@G: if Poland (or anyone) does not like EU, they should get out! It is not compulsory to belong to the EU. Some European countries don't belong to the EU. When Poland joined, what did they expect? Just a free lunch?

If you want EU's money, you have to comply with EU's authorities. This is pure coherence.

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #767

Holy ****... I'm against EU and would love Poland to leave that mess...

But what "EU rules" are you talking about here ? Junkers and a few other non-elected hyenas are making mess out of it. If tomorrow they decide that half of Polish prisoners should be sent to other countries and set "quotas" by country, will you also **** your pants over it ?

"if Poland (or anyone) does not like EU"

What is "EU" in your opinion ? How about making pan-European referendum on the refugees ? Are you against that ?

Ziemowit
10 Sep 2015  #768

Do the immigrants need to be aware of that as well?

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #769

These people are totalitarianists, they are "heiling" to "EU" like Gerries to Hitler.

"theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/hungarian-media-told-not-to-broadcast-images-refugee-children-memo
"Hungarian TV 'told not to broadcast images of refugee children"
"Employees of Hungarian state television have been instructed not to include children in footage of news pieces about migrants and refugees"
"MTVA, denied state media outlets have been told to limit public sympathy towards refugees""

Looks like the "facist Hungarians" campaign is getting bigger... Soon "facist Poland [first: don't want to let them in, next: keep them in concentration camps, don't want to let them go]" just watch...

BTW not that there are many children to begin with...

Polsyr
10 Sep 2015  #770

Soon "facist Poland

Never gonna happen. That is just a fantasy of a small number of misguided Polonia youth across the pond. Eventually they'll grow out of it.

As it stands, Poland is set to welcome large numbers of refugees.

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #771

Just before elections, priceless :))))

jon357
10 Sep 2015  #772

Don't worry Grzegorz. Any outgoing government will watch with great amusement as the new (doubtless short-lived) regime are unable to cope with the humanitarian crisis.

Maybe they'll get Jaro to stand at the border like a scarecrow.

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #773

So what is the latest distance in the polls ;)))) ?

jon357
10 Sep 2015  #774

Either a wilful misunderstanding of the post you're replying to or genuine ignorance. Perhaps both. If PiS get in, it will be hilarious to watch them fail to deal with the growing crisis which will hit as soon as the Szydlo witch takes office.

The only sad things are that they'll once again make Poland a laughing stock and that some refugees will doubtless fall victim to their general ineptitude and pompous but ineffective malice.

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #775

Don't worry, President of Europe will save us all :))))))))))

jon357
10 Sep 2015  #776

You speak truer than you know - only a pan European approach will address the crisis. And it will be fun to watch PiS bluster and winge but ultimately have any decision imposed on them in order to save the subsidies.

Polonius3
10 Sep 2015  #777

it will be hilarious to watch them fail

Will it also be hilarious if PO get in (that's what you want isn't it?) and fail to deal with the crisis. This is a crisis I fear no-one will be able to adequately deal with either in Poland or anywhere else. Or is your hilarity only mono-directional?

G (undercover)
10 Sep 2015  #778

"a pan European approach"

That is likely the reason why the whole crisis was triggered off...

mafketis
10 Sep 2015  #779

If you want EU's money, you have to comply with EU's authorities.

So, we've gone from "rules" to authorities.... Poland might well leave then, Poles didn't escape forty plus years of Soviet domination for de facto German domination. The current clusterf*c* came about because one woman decided to unilaterally let in huge numbers of people with no vetting and expecting other countires to trot along happily behind her.

uh.... nein!

Crow
10 Sep 2015  #780

regime in Poland blindly follow west of Europe and USA. One of rewards are these refugees and all what would come with it. For sure, more rewards to come.

What is most disgusting thing, one even realize responsibility of Polish regime for the destruction of countries from where these refuges tries to escape. No, not only over the shared responsibilities due to NATO/EU membership. There were actually real NATO and EU hawks from within of the regime in Poland.

So what is this? from lunacy such was USSR, Polish `elite` delivered Poland and Poles to the USA and EU. Nothing to Poles? Is it really possible that Poles don`t deserve that official Poland do anything for them?


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