Poland - Serbia etc. thread

Yes, very interesting. In your map I can see the CEU comprises East German, Belarus and Lithuania. So, do you suggest Germany will be divided again? I suppose, judging from your or Weinemar`s posts, you mean Muslim and non Muslim part. But how are you going to make East Germans enter a union with Poland? Their anti-Muslim part will be also anti immigrant, ie. anti Polish.

How are you going to seperate Belarus from Russia and make it join the CEU? How are you going to convince Czechs and Slovaks to give up their German leaning? Or persuade Lithuanians to leave the EU?

I see it in dark colour. Too many problems to overcome.

@Crow

Crowie? From which website did you get that pic with East Germany part of that CEU? Now that would interest me...

Map Maker and you can create what you want. :)

An interesting historical question - what if Serbia never joined Yugoslavia after WW1? Union with Montenegro would seem to be inevitable, but what happens next? I'd guess that Yugoslavia still gets formed as a Serb/Croat/Slovene/Bosniak state, but would there be the rise of two competing South Slav states?

I would be all for it! Not for Germans joining Poland (Or Poles joining Germany for that matter)...but for Central Europeans of native heritage building something for them....a region!

The borders have shifted so often during the times (mainly through war and conquest)...they are completely artificial constructs and very new, only a few centuries old at most...but we are a region with an millennia old history in these lands. We are much better off together, working for our interests...not against each others across borders as nationalists like to do!

Especially for Germany the borders are sometimes downright crazy...like the border in the South between Bavarians and Austrians...all the border regions are heavily mixed..Saarland/Alsace etc. or see Belgiums problems... one side belongs to the Dutch, the other feels more French...to make different politics depending if you are left of the border or at the other side, even competing and rivalling each other, even if it's for the same region, with the same people, with the same problems and needs and requirements makes less and less sense.

Of course if you try to sell the building of such a political and economical region as an "overtake" by one nationality over the other, that must and will fail! You need to build up on the common regional identity. (That of course is the main problem, the borders and the history of nationalism has done alot of damage already). To rebuild a regional identity won't be easy and only works with an understanding of the whole european history, not only the last centuries...

Of course. Its not a big deal of map. Its Wikipedia. Map by Paul Robert Magocsi, map in historical and geographical sense. See >>>

>>> commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:East_Central_Europe.PNG
>>> East-Central Europe >>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East-Central_Europe


What? Italian and Serbian states would have Adriatic coast of what was former Yugoslavia and what is now Greater Croatia. Croatia won`t ever exist. It would be split between Serbia, Austria and Italy. Slovenia wouldn`t exist. It would be split between Italy and Austria.

>>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_London_(1915)

It was all on the table of Serbian King and Serbian elite as the Treaty of London, 1915. They thought history won`t forgive them if they miss opportunity to prevent foreign rule over other Slavs and other Serbs that lived outside of Serbia. It was tragic mistake of our King that Vatican allied with Germanic, Franco and Anglo factor used to reduce potential of Serbia and expose us to enormous genocide. What Polish Prince Czartorisky considered to be natural Serbia, was declared to be Yugoslavia. Czartorisky contemplated on how would Serbian lands look like if Turks never happened in Europe. It would be mixed land of Orthodox and Catholic Christian Serbs. Croatia (and Croatian nation- which even now isn`t consolidated as nation) as creation of pro-German extreme Catholics by Austrian project would never exist and Muslim and Albanian factor in Bosnia and Kosovo would never exist. Bosnian Muslims are Islamized Serbs and Albanians came in the region as Turkish fist against Serbs when an masse accepted Islam due to Turkish pressure. Croats are Germanized Catholic Serbs (note: not all Catholic Serbs were germanzied- it happened after Turks came because central Serbian land was under occupation and relations among Serbs were cut, while different foreign factors used opportunity to expand their influence on different Serbian groups.

Italian state already giving signs to Serbia that wants to reopen talks about Treaty of London, because Italians never signed peace with Croatia that back then didn`t even exist. Legally, Adriatic coast of what is now Greater Croatia is primarily Serbian and then Italian.

It seems religious differences played a key role in Yugoslavia breaking up.

I forgot to ask about it in my previous post as I focused on Poland`s neighbours. Now, your CEU map presents Balkan Zone. How are you going to achieve that unity? Yugo states fought a cruel war which is still remembered.

They can't.
Crow wants Serbian supremacy and rule......

That was sth new to me so I checked it. Wiki suggests that seperate Croat tribes already existed before adopting Christianity by Balkans.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_hypotheses_of_the_Croats

Historical reality, linguistics and genetics suggest something else.

Everything in case with Croatia is a myth and delusion imposed on people (in a way communism was capable to temporarily delude), while Catholic Serbs really existed. Then, all of a sudden, in span of a 2-3 years, after Austrian occupation of Dubrovnik and non-Italian (Venetian and prior to it Hungarian) areas of Adriatic Catholic Serbs stopping to exist and Catholic Croats blossoming. Plus, people that lived in areas under Venetian and Hungarian rule also was ethnic Serbian. Dubrovnik is only area where almost absolute majority were Catholic Serbs, while rest of former Yugoslavia coast of Adriatic was mixed Catholic and Orthodox Serbs, with somewhat more Orthodox then Catholics. In today`s Croatia, Orthodox Serbs are reduced on less then 7%. In past they were 60% of what is now Croatia. 1/3 was converted to Catholicism and Croatinized, 1/3 was killed in genocide and 1/3 was forced to abandon region. Go see in Catholic Encyclopedia online. Vatican tries to be balanced now but its not friend to Serbs (Germanics were always more important) and you shall see about old Catholic Serbs. So Vatican now don`t deny historical facts of Catholic Serbs. But, when Catholic Serbs, 150 years ago asked support from Vatican, to protect them from forcible Croatization and Germanization, Vatican didn`t help them but sided with Austrian project.

Even today Croatian state deny existence of Catholic Serbs, promoting great people such was Serbian Dubrovnik`s scientist Rudjer Boskovic to be Croat. Everything is hoax in case with Croatia. But not only in case with Croatia. In a similar way certain circles forcing formation of Montenegro and Bosniak nations. And also imposing Macedonian nation on regions populated with Serbs in Macedonia.

But now when rightful owner- Serbia, strengthening to mobilize enough force to ask for what is Serbian, entire Europe is shacking, because interest that worked against Serbs are wide and strong.

@pawian

You got yourself lucky. See, that is why forums and internet exist. To provide info that you won`t find in easy sources, for all sorts of reasons.

Well...all nationalities are in some way a myth and imposed on people. Otherwise it would be hard to find the national identity necessary for national states to succeed.

Every regional identity had to be superseded by a national identity....National countries with several strong regional identities had and always will have a more difficult time "keeping it together".

But national identities can be as strong and even stronger too, especially when forged in war and strife. You can tell the Croats that their identity is an artificial one, but that won't change a thing for them. And they could say the same of the Serbs.

Take example of Serbian-Hungarian relations. Those relations historically maximally antagonized in turmoil after Turks invaded Europe and Germanic used opportunity to expand, while Serbian and Hungarian states were weakened.

Now, when Serbia strengthen, when dropping German and Austrian influences, Hungarian-Serbian relations consolidate.

See? That is first answer on your dilemma. Sole strengthening of Serbian state, will return things in order on Balkan, in Central Europe, in Europe. There won`t be any kind of invasion by Serbian state. No. Flame of resistance to what is false will burn from within Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina. It already happening. Some 60-70% of former Yugoslavia, at least, will return to Serbia.

Then, that consolidated Serbia will extend its hand to Poland, as it happened in past and that is the biggest fear of those who are against Serbia. Strong, pro-Slavic and Slavic-friendly Central Europe. It would be virtual restoration of amber trade route wealth line.

Slovaks and Czechs will follow automatically. East Germany? Depending on deal with Germany. Independence of Lusatian Serbs is immanent. Its minimum. This with Muslim migrants helping same as open promotion of Greater Albania helping here in the region. Also helping rising of appetites of Italian and Hungarian states in case with Adriatic coast. Belarus? Depending on deal with Belarus and Russia. Lithuania? Well, Lithuaninas will be reminded that Serbs were military elite of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Not reminded in violent way, just reminded where they need to seek their peace.

To bad you are a serbian nationalist Crow. That is so small minded and the source for so much death and destruction already.

Become a true European instead, fight for a european identity instead, where all regional identities can find an equal home. Serbs and Croats too, without having to fight each other.

That's the way...

Croats know they are Serbs, while Serbs knows that they are Serbs. Its the difference between these two. Its the other question why Croats wants to be Croats and not Serbs. For now. At a time when almost all odds were against Serbian state led by Vatican and western Europe, while Serbian state weak it was one story. But story now changed. Now starting dissolution of myth. Now when Serbs are needed to balance things in Europe and not Germany or France or Britain or Italy or Austria.

Now Vatican and Pope started to acknowledge reality >

Pope Francis Discusses Canonisation of Alojzije Stepinac, Praises Serbian Patriarch
total-croatia-news.com/lifestyle/35788-alojzije-stepinac


Vatican not recognizing Kosovo independence
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2008/03/vatican-not-recognizing-kosovo.html

We are all Europeans...that infighting must stop!

Yes we are. So there will be Pax Serbica.

Europe is more than Serbia, Crowie...

Serbia is one of many...not THE one!

You want united Europe or don`t?

Serbian President Vucic at Albanian Capital Tirana, Brdo-Brijuni conference. Vucic firstly thanked Polish President Duda and then stated his critics on EU, calling Polish Duda to be more positively involved, while diplomatically showing that he obviously don`t expect anything positive neither from him, neither from EU but that will Serbia act accordingly in its own interests and then EU don`t need to complaint to development >>>

>>> youtube.com/watch?v=gFOobp4R-ug

>>> rti.rtsh.al/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/meta-samiti-620x330.jpg

Yes, Serbs are worried because Pristina and Tirana are developing closer ties and it might turn into a unification one day.

Late on Wednesday, Vucic said in Tirana the so-called mini Schengen visa regime between Kosovo and Albania was "impossible and, delusional," Serbia's state TV RTS reported.

rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a482334/Vucic-and-Thaci-shae-hands-in-Tirana-ahead-of-Brdo-Brioni-summit-of-WB-leaders.html

But remember - Serbia can join the EU one day and become a prosperous country. If Serbs fight for Great Serbia, they will lose again and remain poverty striken barren land for decades.

Yes, I know it is painful, because you have lost historical heritage which thousands of Serbs fought and died for in the past. Similarly, Poland lost its Eastern lands to today`s Ukraine, Lithuania and Belarus after WW2. But Poles have finally accepted it, just like Germans have accepted losing their Eastern territory to Poland.

You have no choice - either reconciliation or a new war with the same disastrous effects as before and Serbia again will become a pariah in Europe.


If it was that simple.... Balkan wars of 1990s proved sth else.


So you want war.

No desire for war in Serbia. Serbia preparing to respond, not to start war. You said previously yourself. Pristina and Tirana building Greater Albania. They openly speak not only of Kosovo but of even more. They will be stooped when they mistake and they will mistake, considering theirs only real terrorist muja mind-set.

Then also, there won`t be another NATO aggression onto Serbia, in favor of any anti-Serbian extremists in the region. Too much force in Serbia, far too much force behind Serbia. Attack on Serbia would be world war and actually nuclear one.


There was illegal referendum for separation of Croatia from Yugoslavia. Referendum that was not in accordance with constitution of Croatia itself and also Yugoslavia. Plus democratic principles were violated (even majority of Catholics didn`t vote on referendum) and then para-military forces sponsored by Germany attacked federal Yugoslavian army.

Balkan Civil Wars proved that only insane one trust to Britain and to entire western Europe.

Yes, those Albanians are a sore for Serbs. But you also mentioned recapturing the rest of the lands which you consider Serbian
Some 60-70% of former Yugoslavia, at least, will return to Serbia.

You resort to some sort of magic thinking when you say that war won`t be necessary to achieve this goal. Of course, ex Yugo nations won`t agree to live under Serbian rule again and you will have to force them. How? Through war.

Serbian regional military and police Victory day parade in Serbian city of Nis (Nish) close to administrative line with Kosovo and Metohija >>> youtube.com/watch?v=2wtD8G40zUk

Serbian President Vucic at Albanian Capital Tirana, Brdo-Brijuni conference, in diplomatic way fu*** President of Poland Duda, for his weak support to Serbia, incompeten actions within EU and his siding with regional Nazi Croat and muja Albanian factors against Serbs >>> youtube.com/watch?v=gFOobp4R-ug

Today`s Poland is absolutely isolated from Serbia and Hungary, thanks to pro-German Duda`s regime. I suppose Hungarian Viktor Orban, that seek to escape and survive EU, must be desperate because of Duda`s hijacking of CEU.

I see your point. Who knows?

But we are living now, not in 50 years. Now Poles want to take advantage of all benefits that the EU offers (not only money) and nobody is thinking how Poland will look in 50 years` time.


You should know that if you count on Russia to help you regain Kosovo, you will be disappointed. They can`t do it because it would mean they have to give up Crimea and that won`t happen soon, whether in a reformed or unreformed Russia.


Duda`s regime is pro German because his wife has been teaching German in one of elite high schools in Poland. :)

As for Hungary, it is leaning towards Russia too much and even PiS can`t tolerate it although they are as anti-EU as Orban. .

Very true.
In fact you could expand that.
If you count on Russia for anything,you will be disappointed.....
Serbia's love for Russia is a bit like The UK's love for The USA.
It often works.
But you need to remember that the country with the upper hand will always look after their interests first.

Its sad actually. Not to say that things accelerate.


Serbia have Chinese and Russian quarantines.

Then, why do you think that Germany invest in Serbia and contribute to Serbian economy? To have an eye on us and control things? No, not because of that. On every German million and Germans invest many millions here, coming 100 Chinese millions. Plus, Germany is only one country among many that invest in Serbia.

Germany invest in Serbia because Germany can`t do business normally with Russia and with China if continue open anti-Serbian policy. If there isn`t something more radical behind the scene, which is, there are signs and Germany is terrified.


Thing is that Central-European Union suits Russia`s and Chinese interests. Its clear. Tampon zone between western Europe and their domain, suits them. That is the reason why Hungarian Orban and Serbian Vucic entered in strong economic deal with China and Russia. Hungary knows that can`t survive western European dominance and see only solution in Central-European Union, while Serbia also wants to give chance to CEU project. So Germany bribed Poland`s Duda in respond.

"Terror investments"... :)

Why your sympathy for the Chinese? They aren't Sarmatians, or are they??? ;)

Do you think they give a sh*it about your historical grievances and your squabbles with your neighbours or a Great Serbia?

Just like Serbia's Russian "friends", The Chinese don't care about Serbia either.
But Crow wants what he wants... and he knows Serbia can't get that..... so he is willing to sell his soul to The Russians, The Chinese...or anyone else that will help them achieve that goal.

He will be sorely disappointed.....

They have their interests to deal with western Europe.


No, not soul. We will only join penises for brief period of time. Long enough to satisfy western Europe.


Take your popcorn and follow development. Many will be disappointed but it won`t be Serbia

Lovely scenery of a recently renovated Golubac Fortress (roughly translated it means " Pigeon City "), located on the Danube.

youtu.be/wtxHT3ZtOgc



final resting place of the most famous Polish medieval hero Zawisza Czarny known as the Black Knight is now open for visitors.



He was a famous Polish knight and diplomat, a winner in many knightly tournaments. In Poland he is a symbol of knights and chivalry. He was born in 1379 in Garbowo. In the Battle of Grunwald, he and his army inflicted a heavy defeat on the Teutons, thus ending the war between Poland and Lithuania on the one side and the Teutonic Order on the other. In the Battle of Golubac in 1428, he was captured by the Turks and killed. He was defending Serbia and Europe. His cult in Poland is very strong today. There is a Polish proverb that reads: "Lean on him like on Zawisza." This motto is now used by Polish scouts.

savskivenac.rs/lat/zavisa-crni-dobio-ulicu-na-savskom-vencu/

Zawisza Czarny received a street named after him in Belgrade.