Religion discussion - muslims, jews, buddhist, and christians

Hopefully you aren't wrong.
But if you are...... you will regret it for eternity.
Living without fire insurance is taking a huge gamble.
Your choice, not mine.
God gave everyone a free will to make their own choices.
You have made yours and I have made mine.
The difference is that I have NOTHING to lose in the choice that I have made.

Living an upstanding life without hurting someone should be enough "insurance".

Hell could be to feel all these feelings you evoked in others during your life time during "crossing". Imagine how Hitler must have felt as he died, feeling all the grievances, the hate, the scorn, the deep sadness he brought to the world...at once...now that is hell.

And otherwise feeling the nice vibes you made people feel...the gratefulness, the warmth, the happiness...that too...at once...heaven!

People who distribute today during their life more of one or the other should never forget that...Who will be better off once the reckoning comes?

Just an example: Beating up gay people and making their lifes miserable because some preacher says it's gods will is IMHO definitely not the way straight to heaven if you ask me! You could become quite miserable too, when your time is up, as you will get back all the consequences of your actions during your lifetime.

We Jews believe the Messiah aka "Moshiach" already came (..and left), whereas you guys believe the Second Coming occurs solely on Judgement Day, whenever that is.

@Johnny,

A semantic point, but in all this fuss 'n feathers over doctrine, in the end, we still say those magic words "I BELIEVE in..." rather than "I KNOW.....".

This then leaves room for doubt, n'est pas, mon pauvre?
:-))

It is for the worldly unbelievers however the Christians believers don't live by self imposed rules for their convenience.


Nope, Good works is not what gets you into heaven. (Ephsians 2:9) For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.


P iss pour example because I have never heard a Christian preacher say any such thing.
Now finish your beer and call it a day.
Class dismissed.

As I recall though, Salvation is garnered SOLELY through good works, acts of kindness, self-sacrifice and so forth.

If such a being, for the sake of argument, then turns around, let's imagine, and "spills seed" by pleasuring themselves in a random private moment of sheer human weakness vs. the admittedly unattainable "divine" strength, such needn't necessarily countermand that person's admissibility for admittance through the proverbial Pearly Gates (so long as they confess said sin to St. Peter), would it?

Gosh, if that were the case, then half of all humanity since the dawn of Creation would go or have gone straight to Hell, 'cept of course for you and other perfect beingsLOL

How typical of you churchians and bible believers...that's why a discussion is so often so useless. You really believe YOU know it all...you alone have all the wisdoms and now how it "works"....only you....how amusing! :)

Alone the thought you could be wrong must be totally threatening....

Contemporary Germans such as yourself are justifiably skeptical of such wrong-headed over-confidence in blind faith. Considering your national experience with a man who claimed he was the Supreme Leader on earth, it's small wonder Germans are wary of religious zealots.

Huh? I thought it was the other way round? Christians believe the Messiah was here already and when he returns it will be the end of the world. Jews are still waiting for him to come the 1st time.

The burden of proof is always on the proponent. I am not required to prove that something does not exist or didn't happen.

As far as my claims that 'miracles' are lies or ignorance, the proof is in that every single time the so-called miracles were staged by TV charlatans living in 10,000 square foot mansions.

And not a single one involved a missing limb that was magically restored. Pain in the butt going away, ringing in the head, running nose, but never a missing limb.

To my great credit, I called the Chicago Archdiocese a while back and asked for a list of miracles for the last 50 years. They told me that they don't keep such records. I didn't need to know anything else. Case closed.

I agree as when it falls on deaf ears why waste our time.
You seem to have your mind made up as do I.


I never said that, you did.
What I did was share with you my beliefs and faith which you don't seem to handle very well because of your ignorance of the Bible.


It would be even more amusing to say that most Believers have wisdom to Gods inspired words which is why you as a non believer make such desperate comments.

"desperate comments"?

Which one? That I try to live a good life, to not hurt anybody...upstanding, lawful, honest?

That I believe that could be my "insurance"? What exactly is so desperate about it?

Certain Jewish sects believe certain popular rabbis were the messiah. All were disappointed after waiting by their grave and no zombies came out...


Id have to agree with you on that...


Wanna start a church rich? I need to hit a quick lick to pay for the ferrari 360 for when I move to poland. Non profit = zero taxes, but that doesn't mean we cant pay ourselves a 6 or even 7 figure salary.

Actually out of clergy imams and Catholic priests make a tad below the us average at 40k annually. However rabbis and protestant sect preachers earn 140k plus on average (source BLS). I guess if all else fails I can become a reform rabbi

An orthodox a lutheran and a Catholic die and go to heaven. St Pete greets them at the gate. First guy the orthodox dude comes up and st pete goes, you've lived a good life go to room 12 youll find all your fellow orthodox brothers and sisters, just be quiet while passing room 8. Lutheran is next, st pete tells him you've lived a good life, go to room 20 to all your fellow lutherans, just be quiet while passing room 8.

Last dude in line is a Catholic and he's curious about room 8 so he asks, st pete what's the deal with room 8? Why does everyone have to be quiet when walking past it? St Pete says, that's the Mormon room - they think they're the only ones here...

I will be OK with any room as long as I can take my convertible with me. On the other hand, hell may be too hot to keep that roof down.

What is really funny - if it wasn't so tragic - is that, to the best of my knowledge, no priest charged with molesting boys ever said that Satan made him do it. Did they forget that God, Satan, Hell and Heaven exist? Why didn't they say that since God stayed silent while the kids were tormented, they took it as an approval?

None of that ever happened in the US courtrooms because they knew that no jury would ever buy that bulls***.

You base your decision on what TV evangelists do?


To your great credit? Humble guy you are. Try some other archdiocese. Look on the internet. I'm sure you can find out about plenty of miracles. No, just because one archdiocese doesn't keep records, doesn't mean it's case closed.

Humble? Are you nuts? In my world, arrogant is a compliment.


No. My decision was based on fact that not a single "miracle" from time zero till today involved a missing leg or arm. And you know why? Because it is very hard to stage a fake miracle where a missing limb is restored. Every other malady can be faked but not a missing leg. No, getting a mechanical one is not a miracle. One that bleeds, hurts and has your DNA would be.

Got it?

I would have to agree.

What fascinates me is that otherwise intelligent people who demand proof, or at least expert opinions for everything, do not apply their standards to religion. If not proof, then at least the more likely than not standard. I am for religion and I made sure that my kids are religious. If, later, they decide to turn atheists it will be their decision.

Personally, I observe the commandments and try to treat everybody the way I would like to be treated. But I really don't need the snakes, apples, and the immaculate conception kiddie stories to be a decent person. To suggest that a woman can get pregnant without a man and, later, deliver a baby who only has the mother's DNA is beyond ridiculous and totally unnecessary in recognizing what Jesus, the preacher, said. And then those miracles, including the self-claimed healings. Why would the Catholic Church engage in such things and expose itself to the ridicule and challenges is beyond me. Its primary mission should be to give people a sense of purpose, and make them not to fear death. Some woman in Peru claiming a miracle because she got healed by just thinking about a pope who died years ago is not even funny.

In that case I think we live in different worlds.


Well the Bible writes about one where Jesus brought a dead girl back to life. Or are you only referring to the claims of miracles in modern times? In this case I have heard of many where people who had a terminal illness and were given 0% chance to survive by doctors [not 1% or 0.1%, but literally no chance], miraculously got better and left the doctors who made the diagnoses, stunned and unable to explain what happened. Many of these doctors also spoke of such incidents [in case you think it was just a story made up by somebody].


Now this I am positively surprised by, but why would an atheist want his kids to be religious?

There is no reason why miracles should stop happening after Jesus was executed. In fact, the Vatican claims that they still are. So, my question is why they, the miracles, never involve a missing limb. If you know a case like that, please, let me know. Body immune system healing the body against all odds is simply a rare event but not a miracle.


As I already posted, being an atheist is not in conflict with the religious fundamentals which are commendable. It gives us the core values that make us better human beings. I just don't want to hear about the miracles, the supernatural and a stain on the wall as a crying Mary.

You have no problem with religions but don't want to hear about the supernatural? Kind of goes against the idea of being religious if you don't agree to that part, at least in the main religions I know.

As for the missing limb stuff, it is interesting that this is the deal breaker for you. So if you hear of a miracle where somebody lost a limb and then regained it [not a mechanical one], you would become a believer?

Yes. But I know it will never happen under controlled conditions. Just like those little green things from the outer space, they always land on a desolate farm in Arizona and never leave anything behind for a toothless farmer to show. They never touch down at the Chopin Airport.

Think you're right WielkiPolak! I had things reversed in my mind.

When people survice against all odds is this then really done by some god or much rather a case of "we have still much to learn and don't know all about our universe yet"?


I'm sure modern medicine will in a few years be able to regrow a limb in a laboratory...as they do already with skin and small parts like ears. It's about genetic. It's about technological progess.

What if mankind progresses technological so far that we will be like gods and do miracles everyday? Will religion lose it's foundation?

Lose its foundation? It already has!

We've all become practically without exception so cynical concerning organized religion, it's a wonder church attendance is as high as it is here in the States.

Germany, as with much of majority Protestant Northern Europe, is a lost cause as regards at least younger people attending church, except for Christmas and Easter.

As I posted the other day, it's small wonder Germans in particular are so suspicious not only of Trump, but moreso, VP Pence and his religious trappings.

Nobody, even the Vatican, will call it a miracle. If they do, everything and nothing will be a miracle, as it should be. Then, the Vatican will be able to devote its entire attention to looking for the child molesters and the money swindlers among its employees rather than for toothless old women in Peru saying nonsense.

There was a one good rule that homosexual couldn't became a priest, it took liberal Americans to change it. lol!


Dude you're talking about the world before 60' before the Church became liberal better adjusted to they way of the world. See, talking about the Hell or Satan can scare kids right?


Americans buy a lot of BS very day. Don't be a bigger stinking .........(insert nationality) a-hole that you have to be.

Imo the church became liberal more recently especially after the death of pope John Paul ii. A lot of young poles who grew up in traditional polish Catholic homes reject the dogmas but keep the identity more so out of tradition. Religion doesn't teach anything bad. Even Satanism is about bettering yourself

I'm not saying it's the only cause, but if you do a bit of research, you'll notice there seems to be a correlation between the time the church began taking in a lot of homosexuals as priests, and these scandals [mostly involving young boys] began to break out.

Of what? Sexually abusing boys? Of course it I the only cause. Do you think that a normal man coming from a normal family would go after boys? Having a fling with a woman - much more likely, going after boys - no way jose!

I wonder if a homosexuality priest will stop being a gay in the eyes of regressive left?

Doubtful as they always scrape the bottom of the nasty barrel when they get desperate to drive home old pointless news.
Those damn Catholics stand right in the way of their Marxist agenda.